ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

The news from Carrie’s brother was gut-wrenching to read yesterday. It really felt like much of this ST was intended to remove all of the support from out and under Leia and present her son as the enemy so that she could have not only a star emotional turn in the drama for the finale but also in rediscovering her Jedi path.

They’re going to try their best to try to get into some aspects of that but it won’t ever be what it could have been for the character of Leia because no old footage is a substitute for what could have been written and filmed for her in this role in the present.

It sucks so much she’s gone for so many reasons but I would have loved to see what she could do in her own feature arc with her son. In many ways the ST feels lIke it was crafted toward her having the big moment at the end since her brother had that in the OT. Conceptually, I love the idea of that. The finales of each trilogy have traditionally had some of the biggest moments and she could have had some. Depresses me to think about.

 

The movies don't really go into it which is unfortunate since the books do.

I replied to you as I did because you wrote this:

"For no other reason" which is why I brought up Vader. There is a DNA connection, and it wasn't enough for her to forgive.

 

[shrug emoji]
[Futurama Not Sure If Joking Or Serious]

 

Silly me, forgot Blake's 7 - although everyone in B7 was a mess, so it's hard to name exactly who the villains were...

She's been aware of the war and in it for a day and a half. At the point she does this, she has zero idea of the plight the Resistance is in. In fact, no one has ever explained how she knew where the First Order even was - because we never saw her have the vision - and if she knew where the First Order was because of the Force, then why in hell don't Snoke and Kylo "reverse dial" and find where she and Luke are?

So why does she expect "Ben Solo will turn"? She watched him murder his FATHER for appealing to his better nature about two days ago. Why does she think she's so special?

 

She saw the future of Snoke dead and them standing together and assumed it meant he’d turned.

As for why? She saw change in their exchanges as he listened more and sought to comfort her about the dark side cave. In her mind she’s taming the monster because she mistakes his attraction to her as influence she can wield more than she ultimately can.

 

Oh, you're definitely right, PendragonM. Rey couldn't find the First order after leaving Ach-to. She only had the signal of the Resistance beckon and she couldn't possibly know that Kylo would be right next to it. That's a plothole from the movie that I never heard about.

 

Guys, I don't know how you can say we haven't been given reason to sympathize with Ben. Haven't you seen this???

 

I got a million of 'em (to quote Monty Python). Also, how does Chewie just warp in, drop Rey and warp back out again and then come back for her? Does the Falcon finally have a cloaking device? How do they dock the shuttle - which the Resistance COULD USE but they discard - with the Falcon? TLJ only works if everyone in it drops about fifty IQ points.

So, again, Leia is reduced to siring the villain. Can't win the war, no, it's how she relates to her son - and don't forget, she's the reason he's the way he is - "when I lost you both." That's so empowering and feminist.

 

She thinks he will turn because he's a skywalker and there is precedent about them turning. She knows about the 1st order taking control because I assume the Falcon has a way of keeping up with current galactic events.

 

"Because he's a Skywalker."

But blood doesn't matter, amirite?

I've been listening to Master and Apprentice on Audible. I thought it would be free of ST garbage. Then QGJ and Obi are discussing prophesies, and yup there's one about someone being born of darkness and giving birth to darkness. Leia was prophesied in the new canon to be related to Vader and Kylo. Wow. I hate Disney's canon sometimes. When that came up I rolled my eyes so hard. At least Obi made fun of it.

 

In the Skywalker saga, being a Skywalker matters.

 

I appreciate your honesty. I agree. Rey should have been a Skywalker.

 

Not a plot hole. Chewie had been in contact with the Raddus and been updated on the status of Finn and Rey has not one but two messages sent back to him. Chewie would know the route the Raddus and Supremacy were on.

 

Again, no one has ever explained how she even knows Vader turned - or who he even was - before TLJ. Or why she would think she could do it when Luke did it, if Leia told her the story.

I'm sure Galactic CNN was on the Falcon's Holonet so that they received an instantaneous beaming of what happened. Where's Scotty to tell us that's impossible under the laws of physics, but hey, why not? If they can stand on one planet and see another destroyed at the same moment parsecs away, why not?

Still doesn't explain why Snoke could "locate" Rey when he'd never even seen her, but couldn't locate Luke standing a few meters away.

Wait a minute @Ender_and_Bean - I thought Chewie said he COULDN'T get in touch with them, that's why she leaves the message with him? Also the Raddus is limping along with half of it blown up, right? Yet another plot hole, unless everyone moved to a different ship and that wasn't the ship Leia was on when it had the hanger and bridge destroyed?

 

Except on screen, Chewie couldn't contact the Raddus. You have to guess that something they said they couldn't do he suddenly could. Unless I'm forgetting the scene where he finally got through. If it doesn't exist, yes that's a plot hole.

 

It's such a stupid strategy. Every war might be different if the leader would change his ways, but I am quite certain there has never been a military strategy that involved sneaking into enemy headquarters and trying to beg the leader to have a change of heart. And it only gets worse... when he doesn't turn and pledges directly to Rey that he will destroy everything she cares about, she just leaves him to keep ruling. So her strategy is to try to get him to change "for the Resistance," and if that doesn't work out leave him to destroy the Resistance. Brilliant.

 

Love drove Rey to Kylo.

 

This.

Even worse, we don't see her make the decision to leave Kylo there, not kill him or capture him or even make the decision to bug out and call it even. It's offscreen. That would be character development.

Plus if Poe is going to be bashed for his actions at Crait - which according to that new book is still continuing a year later - why the hell does Rey get a pass for leaving Kylo in place? She just waltzes out, leaving Kylo there, but that's okay? How many people die because he's still in command?

 

Rey should be criticized for so much in TLJ. The biggest one to me that absolutely drives me nuts that it's ignored is she walked Luke's location, where he's stranded btw, to the telepathic murderers that tortured her yesterday to find him. TFA is all about the hunt for Luke. TLJ forgets that plot entirely and has Rey deliver Luke to them with zero consequences.

 

It’s true that there’s no comms breakthrough moment showing that he did get through but it’s established that he’s trying and that he’s meant to check the status of the Raddus and Finn when he does. There’s a notable change in dialogue for the second note in that she says “If you see Finn before I do tell him...” It’s about seeing him. If he was there on the Raddus she could have asked to speak with him even but in this scenario she can’t so it’s about whomever sees him when he’s back.

There’s no reason to think that the comms issue wasn’t resolved in space and likely related to Ahch-To’s unique properties that made it so unfindable.

Also, wasn’t the tracker at that point in time close to the Supremacy if not already on it if Rey was going by that? The combo of both would point her in the vicinity.

 

Under the laws of physics the force is a plot hole, unless you know a way of moving things with your mind?

 

This is a really good point. SW cannot have any plot holes that we can discuss because the force exists.

 

the point is it's kind of silly to criticize plot holes in a sci-fi movie because of physics. It's a fantasy movie not a real world one.

 

This plot hole isn't about physics. It's about the narrative stating explicitly that they couldn't communicate, and then Rey divined what was happening anyway. We have to assume some off screen event changes what happened on screen.