ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

So Hitler's grand nephews or whatever, are more prone to become evil dictators all because they share blood with him? Or at the very least they'll become evil ... well, whatever profession they are?

That's just not true with earth humans or humans in a galaxy far far away. You do not inherit the dark side. You can inherit the Force sensitivity. But the dark side is a corruption of the force. It's the person, who's powerful, and wants to corrupt the force to gain more power. There are not dark side midi-chlorians in Rey's blood (or Kylo's for that matter).

 

This story seems to want us to think that Kylo learning that his grandfather was Hitler made him vulnerable to the dark side. It makes sense they'd think that works for Rey. I'm not even sure they're saying it's a genetic trait. They might just be saying that the emotional trauma of learning of this kind of heritage could drive someone to the dark side. After all, that was essentially Luke's story/temptation. The problem for them is imo there is a monster difference between idolized father and grandfather one never thought about either way.

 

I'm very unsure...

Lineage is such a big part of SW really.
It is hard to detach this element from a character's propensity to turn to the dark side.
As old fashioned as it sounds in my head.

Anakin possibly created by the Sith.
Luke fathered by Vader.
Kylo descended from Vader.
Rey descended from Palpatine.

To say these links didn't push the characters in that direction is arguably ignoring a lot of the themes of the films.

 

There’s the inherited power aspect of it all and the fact that all powerful force users experience the pull of the dark side on some level. In Rey’s case we have seen her go straight to the dark like it’s nothing without even realizing she’s doing it which begs the question that if these moments are casual for her... what would a full dark side turn like her be like? Not good because she’s a savant. Would be Dark Phoenix stuff.

Then there’s the fact that she’s been searching for her force purpose and family so discovering she’s the granddaughter of one of the most powerful force users we’ve seen who literally ruled the galaxy and ruined the Skywalker’s lives in ways that lasted to the present day... suggests that this is what she’s meant to do. If they were smart they’d have Sidious play up the tragedy that has happened to the family recently as her doing. If I was writing Sidious I’d have him tell her she helped kill Luke Skywalker, and ensure Leia’s son would never come back by helping him become Emperor and imply that this is her destiny — to ruin the Skywalkers — as a Palpatine.

 

I hadn't thought of it that way, and I bet you're right that this might be what they're going for. And your are also very correct that it makes no sense. It might work if not for the Kylo scene. You can't show Rey stabbing Kylo, healing him, saying she'll never be like him, get a pep talk from Luke, take on the call to action to defeat Palatine, and then expect the audience to be worried about the same internal conflict 5 minutes later. That's why my Rey Related loving self prefers to look at this as two climaxes. Rey and Kylo is the personal Rey focused ST climax. Rey, Kylo, and Palpatine (and Luke, Leia, and Anakin) is the saga Skywalker focused climax. It would make so much more sense to me. Sigh.

 

I would argue that GL explicitly rejected the idea that Anakin was created by Sheev, and Luke's story with Vader was about emotion, not genetics. He viewed his father as a mirror image of himself. If his father that he idolized was capable of starting as a hero and ending a monster, could he follow in his footsteps?

 

Nope. That single ripped out of context comic panel has been a goddamn plague. It's a great possibility, it's a great bad guy spiel but as actual story fact? No.

 

Again, the reason why the link between Luke and Vader works is because they are set up to be similar in personality. Luke's temptations, his motivations, his drive to do what's right at all costs, to save his friends at all costs, his willingness to help others, his pilot skills, his temperament, his recklessness, his fears, are all just like his dads. You'll notice that Leia never had trouble with the dark side temptation. And why is that? She shares just as much dna with Anakin, as Luke does. It's because she's not like Anakin in personality. She's not reckless like he was. She's more like Padme if anything.

So taking this to the ST. Rey isn't in danger of becoming like her grandfather, because she really doesn't share any personality traits with him. And the same really goes for Kylo too. He's all of Anakins' bad personltih, but none of the good. The story just says "he's got too much Vader in him', and pretends like he's got evil blood in him or something. And now they want to take that further and say the same thing about Rey.

 

I'm not going by the comic.
I did say "possibly".

I was referring more to the original cut of Revenge of the Sith.
Where Palpatine stated it explicitly.

And Lucas said he left it ambiguous in the final cut, so it isn't 100% ruled out.

I kind of blend some of what I know of the original Anakin/Vader turn into the final cut when I watch anyway.

It's debatable.

 

And dark siders are liars too. Not sure why everyone buys into the sale points. They make fun of Anakin for being stupidly seduced by Palpatine, but then take everything he says as fact. Weird.

 

At the very least Rey looked pretty angry at two points in the TROS trailer. Obviously setting up her darker traits I guess.

But on your general point you may be right.

What is cool about Palpatine's writing is that much of what he says is technically true though.

Many have noticed this, but I read the PT scripts to study this aspect and it is actually quite brilliant on Lucas's part how many layers some of Palpatine's dialogue has.

 

But we haven't seen Ben in his Anakin days, we have only seen Ben in his Vader days.

Rey isn't like her grandfather... yet. what happens if became dark Rey. how would she be as a dark sider? that would be kinda interesting to see actually.

 

Every descriptor you list here describes Rey to a tee. I can't think of one similarity Rey has with Palpatine.

 

The hospital was in the World Between Worlds, so a little messing with time was going on. The droid went through the wrong portal and accidentally gave the Palpatine baby to Han and Leia, and gave Han and Leia's to Palpatine's child and SO.

 

Wondering what Rey would be like as a Darksider seems like a separate question than the lineage issue. Rey is nothing like her grandfather, so even as a Darksider she would not reflect Palpatine. It's like asking I wonder what broom boy would be like as a Darksider. There's no link between Rey and Palpatine (in personality, in relationship, in history) other than blood, so exploration of her force usage doesn't feel like it links to him in any meaningful way.

 

You still gotta wonder. because Rey would do stuff she wouldn't normally do. she would crave power. she would take over the fleet of presumably Sith troopers. at least this presumbaly is what the film is trying to say. you would have to imagine Rey being dark and what type of things she would do... and thats hard if you compare her to how she is now, because thats not dark, and it wouldn't compute as a comparison. you had to change the prospective to really see.

 

Rey doesn't crave power. That totally changes her personality and motives, which the dark side doesn't do. Anakin always craved power. Ergo, he was vulnerable to the dark side more than someone like Obi.

 

Shhhh....you'll panic the boards with that kind of talk. Rey was never set up to be like the Skywalkers. Or Luke. It was always Palpatine. Rey has a drop of Palpatine blood in her veins, and it only becomes activated once she learns she's his granddaughter. And this will explain her dark side temptation way better than any of her actual character attributes.

 

You crave it as you feel it. there is that moment where Luke says she fell straight to the dark when it called her. there is something in the TFA book about hearing a mysterious voice trying to make her kill Kylo in anger. which presumably only did not happen because the ground split conveniently.

 

Rey entering a cave =/= craving power. That makes no sense. That whole exchange was nonsensical. Even when they explored later why she went, it was for answers, not power.

 

I can't remember right now, but doesn't Rey even say that she didn't want this power at some point. And just like her grandpa Palpatine. He didn't want his emergency powers either. Gosh, they're so alike.

 

I just think there's a much stronger case to be made that she doesn't crave power at all. That's why she chose to remain on Jakku. That's why she was not interested in the call of the force. That's even why RJ had to write her as tempted by the dark side on Kylo's poor baby behalf - she doesn't have an inherent dark pull. That's a big part of why the Obi parentage theory was at all persuasive.

 

I disagree.

Power for Anakin pre-Mustafar was a means to an end.
He always craved power, but at first it was to help himself and those close to him.

By the time he speaks to Padme on Mustafar though, the dark side has corrupted him and he now craves power for power's sake. As Padme soon realises.
He has forgotten why he initially turned, and Palpatine was probably counting on this happening, it was part of the ruse.

Anakin thought he could join Palpatine, get what he wanted from him, and then overthrow Palpatine and decide what is best for the galaxy himself.
But Sidious knows, as Yoda does in ESB, "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

Hence in ROTJ, Anakin was the first fallen Jedi to ever return.