ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Its click bait.

Disney is not concerned at all.

TLJ was a hit on the box office and with the critics.

The divide in the fandom was predicted by LF and Disney and they still approved every single choice Rian made in this movie.

Regarding China, they never promoted TLJ strongly there after the failure of Rogue One, so they actually made profit in that respect.

Disney buying LF increased its stock value and markets recognised it.

The movies, toys, comics etc is a profit for Disney.

This is the biggest hollywood company. They know what they are doing no matter what fans think.

 

No, they don't and there's still some money to have from DVD and BluRay sells + novelisations and rent, I guess.

This makes me a bit nervous though:
"Dave Hollis (Disney theatrical distribution chief) said the “Last Jedi” China gross was disappointing and said Disney is still “digging into” the reasons and potential solutions."

"Potential solutions" don't sound good to me, especially when linked to money loss. I hope it will not impact the story arc of the characters in order to make diehard Star Wars purists happy.

I had a really bad day today, I tend to see the Dark Side in action in every corner. Please bear with me

 

We bear with you, don't worry! We all have days like that.

edit: speaking of bad days, yesterday was annoying. Some neighbour kept ringing my door insistently for like 10 minutes, but I was indisposed and finally had to shout through the door, "what's with the insistent buzzing...?" and a lady goes, "your cat is outside you door!" and to which I shout, "I don't have a bloody cat!" and she goes, "Ok" and starts buzzing the door opposite mine. God it was so annoying, like jeez, stop woman.

 

Change the story or the characters to ensure earnings would be the worse thing they could do, take a step and then take it back... Whatever they've planned they better stick to it ._.

 

Oh they will. Don't you worry about that. Especially when it comes to the most acclaimed aspects of TLJ (Reylo, Throne Room fight), they have no reason to change or retcon that.

 

I thought Reylo was mostly hated xD :')

 

you know what it's like. Once people were told that Earth was flat too. Didn't make it any more true, did it?

 

Oh stop it you!

 

I'm going to try to keep this within the boundry of the discussion of the theme of the thread, but I will have to vear off a bit to discuss this matter some what. Bolded words are what I'm going to slice into...

This is important to note. Most major studios are dealing with the idea of Tent pole films, that is, films that can hold up and make a lot of money so that they can produce smaller and more intimate movies. Movies like Marvel's cinamatic universe, allow for movies like a Wrinkle in Time or for something like the Shape of Water, to be made. The thing about Episode VII is that it shared a lot of the same adoration that Episode I did in the day. There was a drought of Star Wars and people wanted it. TFA, for all it's issues, pulled basically a back to basic story and, in regard to say China which is a hot market right now, had the right level of spectical for the average goer to grab hold of. Given that the Analysis on Episoce VIII was that it would make, in some cases, more than Episode VII, it came down as a shock, especially again in China, where the numbers didn't match up what they thought, and people were not buying the merch that much.

See the problem in this case really comes down to a few things and I'm not coming at this from a fan view I'm coming at it from a business view. Firstly, with TFA, the story was simple, and easy to follow. You had Rey and Finn on the run from the FO, going from place to place, meet the bad guy, fight the bad guy, save the day, all is well. TLJ on the other hand decided Let's go way philosophical in telling this story and split it into three stories, rather then focusing on one. It went the way of the Art Film, rather than a simple serial film, which is what Star Wars ultimately is. From a business perspective, if a kid doesn't have a character to cling onto in a strong way, and in this case the movies didn't show case that with any of the mains doing anything exciting (Ie, No really dramatic light saber duels, no tense moment like in Episode IV, or even in VII, where the hero has to face some obstacle to get across, and no direct romance or moment when the three mains were together in one place -I'm referring to Poe, Rey and Finn here as Ben is off to the side in this in regard to how the Average viewer codes these four characters and they see Ben as the baddie for the most part). Yes various moments were fun, but the build up to them lead no where. Everyone on the good guy side lost, and big time, more then when they lost in Empire.

See with Empire, for example, you had a more personal loss. Luke Lost an arm and found out a truth that he didn't want to hear, and Leia lost Han and it was more of a personal thing. The rebellion was still in one piece and they all had a chance to regroup and be ready to get Han, and they had a very much alive and well Lando added to their mix. This was all great and that's why Empire sold well when it came to toys and stuff. You had Bobba fett, you had moments of action and moments that made you go "Yes! Beat that bad guy." For the average viewer you lost that with TLJ because Rey didn't confront Ben in a one on one, you had a huge blow with the whole rebellion and Rose wasn't given enough time to develop ala Lando. She was a moral message rather then a character and because she got over shadowed by Ben and Rey most of the time, people didn't connect with her the way that they did with Lando. Kelly has a presence, but it seemed like Rian didn't know how to use it to the best of her abilities, at least given the cut of the film we have right now.

This I think is part of the issue with the whole analysis thing. They thought that people would grab onto Rose, and the idea of DJ, and that the more muted special would work, it didn't.

The thing about RO was that there was a connection to the main story of the first three movies. It told us what happened before that moment that Leia was being chased down. It showed us moments with Vader and Tarkin, and connected to Rebels and the OT. For all it's not so great transition cuts (I still prefer the films to all have the wipes and such) it felt like a Star Wars film. It felt like it was telling a story that felt like it was part of that world. Viewers had Jyn and her crew to grab hold of, even with the bitter sweet ending. We had characters that stood out and people will proudly say their phrases. Nothing that would scream that to a child was in TLJ. Give me one line that sticks out in that film? One? I can give you a doze or so with TFA, and RO, but TLJ, other then "I'm Poe," "Rey" "I know." stands out. This was supposed to be "Ben's" movie and he really didn't have any lines that stood out that could equate him to something, let's say, a ten year old kid would connect with.

Vader in Empire had the "Please sit" moment. Where was that for Ben? Or even Rey for that matter. Luke had the Jakku line, but really will any kid connect with that? Not really. And so we're left with weaker sales in the box office because word of mouth spreads that the ending isn't that all great in regards to the rebels, we have all these things subverted, but the subversions don't push the ticket sales. And while people want different they still want it to feel like Star Wars. Leia saving Luke on his fall, the guy running away with the ice cream maker, Lando's whole betrayel and then turning around and saving them, etc. There was none of this and I think that is what crashed a lot of the TLJ in the box office.

As I said above the issue is that TLJ made a choice to want to be more of an art film in a an action film, and I'm sorry Rian is not Chris Nolan. Nolan was able to say pull off inception because he balanced the artistic aspect, the higher thinking view points of dreams and such, with the more action oriented moments because he knew where they worked. It felt like with TLJ that Rian had a lot of ideas and put them together, but didn't know how to sew them properly so that they could flow into one another. The big issue, I think is that people were looking for an Empire here. The reason why Empire works so well is that the trio starts off together interacting, then they split off, then come together in the end, at least with Leia and Lando as a stand in for Han. We have those moments of them reacting to things as a group. TLJ starts off with them all apart practically, doesn't do much in regard to Rey and Luke's story, has Finn relearn what he already learned in TFA, and then throw's Poe into 12 o'clock high and screws over Holdo, who is a far more interesting character in the book she's introduced in.

Analysts we're looking for pulls from China, and here's where I think one of the bigger issues with this film is. Rian designed it to be more based on Eurocentric story telling. The OT and the PT and even TFA, was very Asian in it's story telling and how it played out. Hong Kong and Singapore probably got what it was trying to say, but mainland China is a whole other story.

There was a teaser out this weekend. Add to that they made it kind of look ROish in the design and I cringed some because the whole thing should feel like an Ocean's 11 type film and not something dramatic. Han Solo is a rogue for a reason. They're even changing the title in China and I have a reason why I think. But more on that later. Also, I think they're realizing that you can't have various visions, you need one lead and to go off that. Star Wars worked because Lucus was the driving force behind it, ultimately it was his world. The same needs to be done here going forward.

The main thing they have to do from now on is for one person to be set in regard to how things are being set up in each trilogy. No more splitting between three directors in regard to story telling. One person, three chapters, you can have different people helping write the story or film it, but the over all vision must be from one person or it doesn't work as a serial and isn't Star Wars. It was one of the first Cinematic universe, and needs to lead the way to continue that idea.

See, this isn't about making the Star Wars purist happy, this is about making the Chinese audience happy. The Chinese market is so vastly different then any other market because of how it's set up in movies and their culture. They are big on the idea of mythology in a simple form. The bad guys are bad, the good guys are good, and you have a chosen one to save the day.

Look at the recent Great Wall for example. It's a chinese movie with American actors in it. The basic concept of the film is firmly, the Chinese armies are the good guys, the monsters are evil, we must kill them. Or the Marvel movies, like Iron man one for example. Tony is the good guy, the Warmongering Stain is the bad guy, Tony beats up the bad guy, he wins and is happy at the end. That is how they normally want their movies. Simple, not to hard to follow, and where the good wins over the evil. Heavy social issues, and such, don't play well there due to the issue of how their society has been set up and this is not to say that all viewers of the movie won't get it, just a good majority will have trouble with understanding a lot of the concepts, which are heavily western in influence in this one (namely celtic and not Asian as were the originals and the prequels) so it's not going to work out as easily for them in places where there's less of a western understanding of things.

This is why so many films either put in a plug to China in some way, or the ones that do well are a lot of action and amazing things happening on screen. In the west we're used to all this, China is still a newer market so you need to keep their attention.

My guess, next movie is going to back to basic Good vs Bad and throwing in more moments of seeing characters do amazing things with their powers, more light saber fights, wire fu maybe, more focus on the good guys being good and the bad guys being bad, etc. So we're probably going back to at least a one note villain for the ending.

 

Im sorry but if ESB came out today it would be ripped to shreds (by some fans) for being too dark and philosophical, in fact it recieved mixed audience reviews when it did come out! I have no doubt in my mind that TLJ will be considered the best in the trilogy in 10 years time. I've noticed people are discussing deeper themes like character motivations opposed to "who are Reys parents". Heck i've seen essays regarding the deeper philosophical meaning to Hans flipping dice! Rian has truly created a stunning film with nuance and subtext, I adore that the story is not as linear as TFA, theres so much more meat to chew on and most critics said its the most intelligent installment since ESB. I've seen so many clickbait articles which Pablo hidalgo dismisses all the time.

Anyway anyone notice Hans dice feature in the new Solo trailer? I bet they get a backstory to add emotional weight to that scene in TLJ.

 

Let's steer things back on topic in here.

 

Yeah... Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX people!!! XD
I wonder that dice's fate... Since it vanished in Kylo's hands hmmm I hope its in the Falcon again, with Rey protecting it... Hopefully we'll see it again in Episode IX :v

 

Hope it doesn't suck. About all I can say that I'm sure everyone will agree with (although what exactly would make it suck/not suck is going to be contentious, I'm sure). Beyond that, have them have a good lightsaber duel?

Good question, did Luke keep them or did he leave them in the ship after unhooking them?

 

Well... We definitely need a good duel! But I'm not sure, does Kylo hate her enough to fight her again, and this time to death? I don't think so, but I guess it's fair to say it could happen..
I'm hoping soooo much to see the knights of ren, hopefully with some force skills (assuming they were training with Luke and Ben).. There we could have a duel, if one of them builds a saber or steals it momentarily from Kylo or Rey...
I definitely need more action
Edit: I just rewatched the trailers and felt the hype again xD look at me, all this time saying I don't support death, and now I want to see blood... The dark side spreads xD

 

While I think any romance between Kylo/Rey was mostly implied, I truly don't understand the "there was no romance in TLJ" comments I'm seeing from some people, particularly since Finn and Rose had an actual onscreen kiss. You might not "ship" it but that doesn't mean it never happened.

 

Thank you!!! I know!!! I understand that some people didn't see it in TFA but now its just too much... Whether it's happening in Ep IX or not

 

I guess it depends on what you call "romance." I did not see romance so much, as just a connection. I think Kylo was thinking romance, I think Rey was thinking more about not feeling alone. Some people see romance in that, but I did not. I don't think an emotional connection between a man and a woman automatically implies romance.

 

Well, we'll have to see where Rey stands with Kylo in Episode 9; TLJ left it pretty open-ended in regards to where Rey stands in Kylo's opinion. Abrams could do just about anything and it could be justified to work with what we got.

Yeah, all the Saga movies have had a good duel scene somewhere in them. Bringing in the Knights could be good, too.

I don't think that a sword duel needs to be gruesome to be exciting or entertaining.

 

Well yeah.. "romance" involves some gestures that we're missing here, cause this is not a "romantic" movie...
And of course a connection doesn't have to get romantic, but, I don't know how else to explain, there's attraction in here, interest... Hmm I think Kylo demonstrates it more, but I sensed Rey was searching for a motive to go to him, to know him... And it started, imo, in that rain scene, when he disarmed her saying he is indeed a monster, and left her there like: what the hell just happened?
And after that she starts to ask why... And then you have all that your not alone, neither are you, etc...that was before the vision, and before she started to think about turning him as a way to win the war... Idk there are so many things..
Edit: They just have that vibe, but of course you wont see It like that...
Attraction is not that easy to explain, its the language of the body, you can try to resist it but most of the time you will fail, it doesn't imply precisely words, and well, if you're thinking it isn't on purpose, there's a lot of people working in these movies, someone should've seen it, as many of us now, and yet, they decided too keep it things like that...

 

Oh for sure, I said it like that cause I was contradicting myself anyways, since its a fight to death, but a good duel doesn't need any of that..

 

Yeah. At the end of the day, I think it depends what kind of story Episode 9 needs to tell and the duel will be designed to fit that story, to the death or otherwise (to the pain? ).

(Have to wonder, given that the Saga movies traditionally have a duel, does that make it more likely that Rey and Kylo will be written more antagonistically than in TLJ to allow that to happen?)

 

Ok, so I was thinking that Luke bringing Leia out of the coma using the force was some kind of foreshadowing of Force Healing being used in IX? We've talked about this a little bit, someone suggested the Pieta Trope - I think that would be nice.

 

I don't know man, I personally find it unlikely, it would feel out of place, I can't picture them trying to kill each other anymore.. That's why I was thinking about the Knights, (I even heard about some other Snoke's apprentice showing up completely from nowhere).

 

I wasn't suggesting that they would try and kill each other, but something more like Kylo/Ben sacrificing himself and she brings him back.

 

Oh yeah, we were talking about how a duel would take place in Ep IX..
But about what you say yeah, Kylo needs an act of selflessness, and Rey saving him.. Yeees i can deal with that xD