ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Awww, lol. She's so unpolished, which is something I adore about her.

 

Me too. The eating scene and Reach Out are my favorite Rey scenes that don't have Kylo in it.

 

Same. She was adorable.

 

I need this to happen!!!!!!!
I feel like this could be the beginning of a new legend... But its easier when you just hear a story like that, in a context of ancient times perhaps.
This is happening right now, allowing to take part into it, and to reject some aspects of it too...

I think we are passed that from Rey.
She already said everything she thought about him, and if he is that needy, silence could be what she gives him. Unless she "feels" the conflict inside the FO through Kylo, and wants to do something about it...
Man, they have a lot of possibilities with the KOR, I hope they are Force users, Kylo could've claimed the light saber as a weapon just for him or something... (At what point do padawans get to build their own sabers? Ben had one in the flashback, but maybe it was just him?)

 

I love

I love her whole interaction with Han Solo. How she goes little by little under his [hard] skin.
Like the little, hardcore desert elf she is...

 

Oh I agree! I was just saying I cannot imagine him not responding to any attempt she might do to get close to him. Not even if she were calling him names, which I also think she is a long way past that.
I believe silence might just be the most effective way of communication, talking got them into trouble after all. They can rely on visuals and feelings only. Audio off.

I was very impressed by the use of silence in the documentary "The Force of Sound" from ABCnews. I hope JJ Abrams took notes.

 

Is the Forces of Destiny episode set during or after TLJ?

Maybe that will give some hint about Kylo and Rey moving forward.

 

Honestly, I think that they could very well become a couple in Episode XI.
I don't really care if they do- it's how they execute it that will shape my opinion.

 

Execution is important for everything. of course, people will not agree as always. For example, critics praised Rey and Kylo scenes and relationship as the highlight of TLJ, but there are some fans (minority for what I could see based on fan reviews and discussion all over the Internet) who think it was "smutty". So we'll see. I loved the "Smut Hut" so I have no objection.

 

"Smut Hut"... I love it!

 

The heck is that?

They want smutty? They should see what my friend writes

 

The hut with the finger smut that Luke blew up.

 

I still don't know what that is.

 

I still think that was too much (and the Swolo Ben) xD what did they think they would make us assume with that? Cmon!!! It's not like they can blame us anymore

 

I don't think it was too much. Shirtless Skywalker is the second movie tradition:



so shirtless Kylo was a must.

Also, metaphor for sex aka non-sex sex scenes existed in SW before Smut Hut:



It may be chaste on the surface but you get the point. Rolling in a hay and rolling in a grass, same thing. It's like how everyone knew that this famous kiss



was substitute for sex since they couldn't show it in movies.

 

@vaderito what I mean is, its too much for a non canon couple, (as many of us could still think...)
That was my reaction when I first saw it x)

 

They are canon couple.

 

I have the hard cover edition of the jr novel (I don’t like ebooks). However, I was not citing that book, but Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Rey’s Story by Elizabeth Schaefer (which does have some similarities with the others, when compared):

And yeah, there are a few discrepancies between the three relevant novelizations in regards to the exacts of the mind-reading scene (and mind trick one, for that matter). Make of that what you will.

Could be. On the other hand, I don’t recall Rey reacting with much (physical) pain when Kylo was reading her mind on Takodana. Make of that what you will.

Fair enough. However, his being an unreliable narrator doesn’t prove that he’s wrong about everything.

Okay. However, we got in-story confirmation that there were discrepancies and the actual truth, something that was never even hinted at with Snoke.

Wouldn’t the movie have told us if Snoke hadn’t created the link like he said? That’s a pretty important detail to not explain.

Wookieepedia is only as accurate as the people who compile it. The people who wrote the article do seem to agree with you that Snoke did not create the link. However, the sources cited (mostly bio stuff on the Star Wars website) are vague enough that it’s inconclusive. Even if it wasn’t, I’d personally hold that the movie itself has seniority.

I just don’t see the evidence stacking up, esp. given that we’re told something in black and white in the movie without any indication that we’re supposed to take that as misdirection. If something like the novelization supports the Snoke was lying (or outright tells us that), then I’ll have to adjust how I’m seeing the topic, but until then I don’t think the theory holds up.

My point is, Kylo was surprised that the Force Skype channel existed in the first place. He specifically mentions that he doesn’t know who created it (since it couldn’t’ve been him or Rey). That raises a question that the movie seemingly answers (Snoke did it).


If Snoke did not do it, the movie should’ve given us a chance to realize that he was lying. AOTC did it with Dooku when he tries to convince Obi-Wan to join him; from watching that movie and the others we can piece together the lies (that Dooku is opposing Sidious and fighting for a noble cause) and the truth (that the Republic’s government is under Sidious’s control). Same thing with the gradual revelations of the moment Kylo defected for good; we’re told different accounts that can’t match before hearing the true story.

I’m not saying that Snoke isn’t infallible. I’m just saying that I don’t think the case that he lied about creating the Force Skype channel makes much sense in context of the movie.

Maybe. On the other hand, the whole throne room scene from beginning to end fits the prophecy quite well, so, while Episode 9 could establish that they were mistaken, I don’t see there’s a “need” to. And, as said before, everything in TLJ points to Snoke being the one who created the Force Skype.

Agreed on the bolded. It will be interesting to see if the Force Skype channel remains intact or if it’ll wear off between the movies; Rian Johnson did go on record that it was invented primarily as a plot device to get Rey and Kylo talking, so I could see it staying or leaving depending on narrative need.


Mileage may vary, as always.

I agree with bolded (that the vision of them standing together referring to their being in front of Snoke and fighting off the guards together, and that they mistook that to mean that the other was going to join their side). I feel that the "they work well together" thing is extremely superficial, given that their underlying motivations have been shown to be utterly incompatible.

In regards to the Force part, that raises an interesting question to me? Was the Force's involvement in their little drama passive or active? e.g. did the Force want them to work together (or not work together, for that matter), or were they left to their own devices and handle their association (and the Force powers they used along the way) as they saw fit. Frankly, while I think that the Force did pull the strings to put one on the game board after the other came into play (light meeting dark and all that), I never got the impression that Kylo and Rey were "supposed" to do one thing or the other, so I don't really see the Force being "wrong" that they parted as enemies (or whatever) when Kylo decided to crown himself as dark overlord 2.0, if that makes any sense.

As far the idea that our favorite light and dark siders will take a third option away from the war, it's possible, but I doubt that. In TFA, Maz Kanata (who was presented as the new Yoda), makes a pretty clear argument that the war can't be just walked away from and that it's just the latest round between the dark side and the light. They already explored the ideas of just walking away from it with Finn and DJ and the answer was an unequivocal "that is wrong." While it remains to be seen what role Kylo plays in all this (villain to the end, repentant villain, or something else), I think that the stakes have already been set and that the fall of the First Order and the restoration of the Republic and the Jedi (presumably in forms that don't repeat the mistakes of the past) are the goals that the heroes are striving for.

 

The official Disney Webpage calls the connection "mysterious", and doesn't give any further information on it. Perhaps they really mean to keep it this way only to be revealed in ep. IX, I suspect.

Figured. As I said, since I do not know how reliable that source is, I do not keep it into consideration for my observations.

On second thoughts, if I agree that Snoke manipulated Kylo during the Force Skype sessions, it doesn't really matter whether he created the bond or not. Manipulating it was bad enough.
I only feel that he was taking a tremendous risk linking Kylo and Rey at that level. He should have forseen the possibility of the two joining forces to overthrow him (as it happened).

The Force may have done it, as he seems to agree during the second Session. Snoke agrees that as Klyo's powers in the dark grew, his equal in the light would rise. If I read into his statement, then I must believe that it is the will of the Force to balance the darkness. It implies that the Force has a will, so it can theoretically, create a bond between these two Force sensitive. But there is no other evidence on it. Disney web page insists on a "mysterious connection".

Since it was one of the most praised elements of TLJ, I'd bet it will stay. But no one really knows, nope.

You know? I am not so sure anymore. R. Johnson comments in the "The Last Jedi" Re-recording mixer (Skywalker Sound) made me think again that the vision they saw was not a "vision" but they were

So, what if it was not the future they saw but their outmost desire? Then they actually may have seen two different things:
what she saw in his mind involved bowing (not to Snoke -she said that in the elevator scene), mabe some kissing (A. Driver question to R. Johnson about how to play that very scene) and something strongly emotional that moved her to tears. I strongly disagree with you here: Fighting off the guards together does not move a girl to tears that way. Only something deeply emotional does.
And she acknowledged it as "future", since she cannot quite place it elsewhere.
Kylo OTOH, may actually have seen what he said: her parents, her desire to know who she is, where she comes from.
It doesn't change much the perspective of the events that follow, but it may shed a little light on Kylo's deepest wish.
I believe that taking the power was not something he planned all the time, but a necessity rising after Snoke's death. Probably for him the only option to remain alive, securing his (and her) safety. Not something he really, deeply desired, or she may have perceived it if she really saw into his soul, as R. Johnson suggests. And probably would_t have risked her life to goto him, but that's wild speculation.

If the Force created Rey when Kylo's dark powers raised, the the Force is very active. If we accept Snoke's assumption as true: the Force is aligning those two together.

 

Wrong quote, I apologise, it was Michael Semanick who said

Full article here.

 

Top 10 reasons that better justify Rey’s choices related to Ben Solo:

10) She may have felt an attraction and connection to Ben Solo as early as the moment he took off his helmet in TFA. I’ve listed this 10th for a reason. I see it as a lesser possible complication but one that may exist nevertheless.

9) She’s finding her way in the galaxy for the first time away from what she’s come to know. She’s young, never went to school or learned how young people in healthy relationships treat each other, and is taking her first steps as a young woman in a strange new world outside of a largely solitary life she’d known where many others were old or alien and also solitary. She had been established as naive in TFA, and fell for Finn’s routine easily and has likely never encountered a young man as emotionally manipulative as Ben Solo who also had the the combination of point 10, who claims to have some of the answers she’s looking for related to the Force and her past, who seems to understand this awakening she’s experiencing that confuses her, who seems seriously interested in teaching and being with her, that’s also a “somebody” in this world in comparison to the “no one” she sees herself as.

8) Her Force journey really reached the next levels toward the end of TFA and are a new development. Ben Solo’s offer to train her may have taken some time to process and when it’s clear that Luke isn’t interested she may be revisiting the other Force user who did seem interested for the first time in her mind. What’s more, every time she might be thinking of how Luke doesn’t want to train her she sees Ben and the physical damage she did to Ben’s body that she inflicted after that offer to train. Does she feel any guilt? We don’t know but considering some people kidnapped come to sympathize with their kidnappers (Stockholm syndrome) it’s possible that she could. Ben never mentions it to her or makes her feel bad about it in their exchanges which also adds another layer to it. To be clear, I am not saying that she should feel conflicted. She did what she had to do versus someone dangerous and threatening. I’m just saying it may be possible that seeing his wound may be adding a different psychological wrinkle to it all even though she was justified. Similarly, while some think the compressed time gap hurts, I think it helps. She’s known all of these characters a very little amount of time and through the Force might know Ben Solo more than any other person she’s met since she left Jakku because of the compressed time.

7) Ben Solo drives a perfectly placed wedge between her and Luke, damaging their relationship and planting seeds of doubt about Luke in her mind by making her think that Luke is jealous of powerful savants like her and him and that Luke came to kill him in his sleep and would have had he not protected himself. Luke does himself few favors by initially being worried of her raw power and likening it to Ben Solo’s, by looming over her as she sleeps on the rock, by downplaying what he meant when he said he went to confront him about his darkness at night, and by only giving her one (admittedly awesome) powerful lesson related to actually connecting to the Force in a stronger way (probably the most important lesson of all!) and spending his other time telling her the problems of the Jedi and why the world will be better without them and their ways or their students. Starting off on the wrong foot probably made it a little harder for her to trust explaining the mind bridge too. She also comes to believe Ben’s choice wasn’t made.

6) The Dark Side cave. I see this scene as her subconscious desire to remember more of what her parents were like since they left when she was young and her confusion over her potential and abilities based on who they were or weren’t and whether their issues limit who she can be in any way. This brings these issues to the forefront of her mind and she’s never felt more alone after the process. Ben Solo is there to tell her she isn’t alone and offer a warm hug (or in this case a removal of his glove and skin to skin contact) and the combination of both of their personalities in the process.

5) Abandonment and common, reoccurring observed issues in young adults who’ve been abandoned and grown up in harsh conditions like she did. One of the unfortunate traits observed in some young people who’ve been through some of the issues Rey has is that they sometimes not only move from one intense relationship to another but can fall into unhealthy relationships where “love bombing” manipulation or “gaslighting” can unfortunately work to influence.

4) The mind bridge itself. Initially unknown and confusing to both participants of it, after a first vieweing we know it’s a trap set forth by mastermind Force user Snoke as a way to influence both and finish Ben Solo’s final training lesson. To kill the person he has come to desire more than anyone Snoke has seen before. Before Snoke reveals the twist though neither Rey nor Ben nor the audience knows what’s causing it and that allows everyone’s Imaginations to run wild including theirs. Is it destiny/fate? Does the Force want them to be together? Is there a strange lineage reveal up ahead? Was that old reincarnation rumor true? Johnson uses the same mystery box powers that works on observers of film on the characters themselves and the mystery of what’s happening and why lets either character imagine it in their own way. Any fan who has theorized over mystery box elements should appreciate what each would have been going through.

3) They’ve occupied each other’s minds. There are a lot of different words one can employ for the interrogation scene and my point is not to challenge anyone’s impression of that scene but I hope we can at least all agree on the fact that by the end of “it” she had reversed what was happening to her and had done the same thing to him and that both through that process learned more about each other’s deepest thoughts, feelings, regrets, weaknesses, worries, true selves than we, the audience, know about either of them. That’s something none of us can relate to and it’s entirley unique to them. It’s huge.

2) The vision of the future when they went skin to skin. Combine the mystery of point #4 with the power and sheer influence of experiencing a vision as clear and solid and pure as what she had and it’s easier to understand how it could impact a young mind and some of the points mentioned previously. First, just the fact that it happened when they two came together would have already seemed magical and exiting to both. Who else but each other can give them that kind of experience they must have felt and thought in that moment but more than that... she likely saw Snoke dead and the two of them working together to fight his guards. Seeing this brings forth the same mystery box qualities in her own mind that work on audiences when we all get bits of info and are trying to work out theories. Clearly her theory was that based on aspects already mentioned and what she saw in this vision with them working together and Snoke dead he had turned on his master and those guards and joined her and the Rebellion for her.

1) From Maz’s line about how the longing she seeks is before her and how one might come back, who she initially saw as Luke, she’s been looking for a new Force user to end the war. Maz never confirmed the one who would come back was Luke. She merely said she knows the Force. Well, the Force has actually more so been leading her in her mind toward Ben. He wanted the saber when Luke did not. He wanted to train her when Luke did not. For all of the earlier reasons maybe he is the one who will come back. Why? For her and because she senses some good still in him. She knows he likes her. She knows the Resistance is desperate. She’s seen the vision of him turning on his boss and his guards. She knows what’s inside his mind more than we do. She thinks it might be fate. She wants to help her friends. She’s brave. She’s selfless. She’s young and naive and confused and dealing with issues related to her past and confusion about her powers... so it all combines in her pursuit of the ultimate happy ending. One where what Han died trying to make happen does happen. One where the leader of the Resistance gets her son back. One where Luke and Ben might be able to work it out in time. One where her friends are safe. One where she might continue to see the best of Ben that she has presumably seen in his mind coming out more and the possibility of both learning more about the Force together.

I don’t expect each to work for all of you but if none of those works for you then I really think it reveals just how dead set you are not to find any way into the movie here and that’s fine but just be clear about that aspect as a personal choice and, please, stop pretending the rest of us are idiots for being able to suspend disbelief around what is still... after all of that... very clearly shown to be her 2nd act personal setback and an error in judgment for her character. It’s not supposed to be fun for people who didn’t want her and Ben to be together. It’s supposed to be worrying and frustrate you and have you concerned about her judgment and ability to be the hero that may be required to ultimately kill Ben Solo.

 

http://postperspective.com/skywalkers-michael-semanick-mixing-sfx-star-wars-last-jedi/

 

Thanks! I have started to ask myself whether we saw it right with the vision theory.
What if it was not the future she saw but the deepest desire he had? And felt it that way in her?
It must have been overwhelming, at the very least.

 

I believe that they saw the same vision, because if it had just been about seeing in each others soiul then

I do believe their soul touched in that moment, but I also believe they both saw the same vision of the future. She said (in the elevator), "Ben, when we touched hands, I saw your future. Just the shape of it but solid and clear..."

 

Question: how does she know that it was the future and not the present she saw?
OK, if she saw kids, it may have been the future. No mistake.

But she says: "You will not bow before Snoke. You'll turn".
So I thought: OK, she may have seen him bowing. But he doesn't bow before Snoke, he kneels actually. Semantics.
He bows before her? To her? Then I remembered A. Driver question to R.Johnson regarding Kylo's state of mind in that scene ("have I ever kissed a girl?") while in the scene he should "just" touch her hand. So, was it in his mind? Is this what he was projecting to her? Is this the reason why he looks slightly amused in the elevator when he mentioned: "I saw something too"? He knew very well what was on his mind when they touched hands...
And he said he saw her parents, so he apparently saw her deepest desire to know who they were, who she is. Why should he see the past and she should see the future?

Of course this is wild speculation. Nothing more. I am only wondering why we talk now of "see into each other's soul" and not the Force giving them visions of the future and of the past. That's another perspective I haven't thought about until I read that interview.
It doesn't change much of the events that follows actually, but gives new insight of Kylo's mind and his motives for killing Snoke and take the power, I think.