ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Kylo and Rey. Its important question I agree.
This however makes a singificant change of perspective by which we should look a relationship of Rey and Kylo.
Can we continue debate about this in some other thread (Rey thread) please I find it very interesting ?

 

If Rey is still convinced that Kylo has good in him and can be turned, and she finds him worth the effort to try and help, I highly doubt she'll be consulting a committee to get permission about trying again.

There is no Jedi council, no Order that can veto her. She's in the same position as Luke three decades earlier. And Vader did far more damage to the people that Luke loved, and were far more connected to than Rey is to the people in her life. Yet there is not one scene where Luke consults the Rebellion, or asks Han and Leia how they feel. Not even one moment where we see Luke questioning whether his decision to save Vader might be seen as betrayal. He informs Leia of what he will do, based singularly on his own convictions, despite her protestations. In fact, he spends very little time consulting and checking in with the one human being who had the most stake in all this.

If we applied Luke's actions to the real world, which has become the new started to judge the ST by around here, then it's an unmitigated disaster.

I doubt Rey will be given limited agency this late in the game, even if they write in Finn or Poe offering dissent, or even suspicion.

 

Rey made her own decisions in TLJ, right or wrong. She didn't do what either Kylo or Luke told her to do. I doubt the door will remain closed, and if it opens I bet Rey will continue to deal with Kylo on her own terms.

 

Recently saw snippets of the TFA script going around and it made me realize something;

from the TFA script:
KYLO REN
She's strong with the Force, untrained
but, stronger than she knows.
And while Ren's mind no doubt goes to Luke:

Kylo Ren TURNS OFF HIS LIGHTSABER and REACHES FOR LUKE'S
LIGHTSABER -- BECKONING IT WITH THE FORCE.
LUKE'S LIGHTSABER VIBRATES IN THE SNOW.
Kylo Ren GESTURES, INCREASES HIS POWER -- LUKE'S LIGHTSABER
FINALLY FLIES OUT OF THE SNOW, BULLETS TOWARD KYLO REN --
-- AND SPEEDS PAST HIM!
KYLO REN TURNS TO SEE LUKE'S LIGHTSABER LAND IN THE HAND OF
REY, WHO STANDS, FACING HIM, HAVING REACHED FOR IT HERSELF,
BUT UTTERLY STUNNED THAT IT LANDED IN HER HAND! SHE IS
SHOCKED -- AND SO IS KYLO REN!
Holding it with both hands, SHE IGNITES LUKE'S LIGHTSABER
FOR THE FIRST TIME, HER EYES BLAZING.
Kylo Ren IGNITES HIS SABER.
It's REY who charges now -- Kylo Ren immediately on the
defensive. They BATTLE POWERFULLY -- He is clearly rocked
by her raw, innate skill.

& from the TFA novelization right before they begin to battle:
"It is you," Ren murmured.
His words unsettled her: Not for the first time, he seemed to know more about her than she did about herself.

Now we have this from Snoke in TLJ:
Snoke: So much strength. Darkness rises and light to meet it. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise.
Skywalker... I assumed, wrongly.

So it's clear to me that in TFA Kylo was realizing that Rey was his actual equal and not Luke as Snoke had assumed! Hence why when he's thinking of her strength in the Force his mind goes to Luke! They did a great job tying TFA & TLJ together!

 

Yes, and I think the above is the equivalent of The Awakening. When Snoke asks Kylo if he's felt the awakening in the Force, it means basically that the time has come when Kylo's equal in the light has arisen. I personally think that Snoke believes this is Luke making a come back in the Force after being out of the picture for so long.

He doesn't believe Kylo about Rey per the TFA novelization, not until the end AFTER Rey has fought Kylo. At the end of TFA, therefore, Snoke and Kylo both know the same thing: Rey is indeed Kylo's "equal in the light," not Luke. Snoke is later amused in TLJ to learn that Skywalker has been "so wise" to just want to die and end the Jedi Order. He said he hadn't expected this of Luke (which is to say that he had thought before that Luke would make some sort of come back).

I still think though that Snoke does fear that whoever is Kylo's equal in the light will lead the new Jedi to rise, and will essentially bring about the end of the rule of the dark side over the galaxy. He is desperate to keep that hold on the galaxy.

This also goes to how Kylo thinks (per TLJ novelization) that Rey's sentiment (sparing him) will mean her death. He has to kill Rey if he wants to keep the dark side hold on the galaxy. She wouldn't join him, so it's the only way left. This of course goes to how at the end of TLJ they are on completely opposing sides.

ETA: Oh and it makes sense with Kylo's line at the cliff in TFA, "I don't want to kill you." At this point he knows what Rey represents in the Force, as Snoke has been preparing him, and it's known that Kylo's equal in the light has to die.

 

You mean?
"She must have realized he was at her mercy, yet she'd left him alive.
Almost as if she cared for him. Well, it was another foolish, sentimental decision. And this one would be her destruction."

 

@IncessantRamblings - yes, I was referring to that.

 

Fantastic analysis there. This is the basis of the entire ST. As much as some dislike it as a whole (basically due to Rey not being related), it shows there is a common theme there between TFA and TLJ.

 

Thanks!

I think this will continue to tie into IX... there's something new & important about their connection. It's not as simple as them being a couple & having super powered Force babies or one having to kill the other to be the victor, the Force is doing something different (imo) to end the endless cycle of Force users dragging the galaxy into their problems. Rian being inspired by the Mortis Arc is very important here....

 

It makes me wonder if episode 9 title would be THE Prime Jedi or something like that since Mark Hamill troll the fans with the word of the next start wars title with THE. It would tie into the the mosaic picture on Acho-to.

From Wookieepedia : Kazerath Device
"Crafted using both the dark and light sides of the Force, and clearly designed to be operated by both at once. I can only imagine its purpose."
―Lor San Tekka[src]
The Kazerath device[1] was an artifact crafted using both the light and dark sides of the Force, and designed to be operated by both at once. The Force artifact was spherical in shape, hand-held sized, and black-colored with red markings.[2] Around the year 34 ABY,[3] the galactic explorer Lor San Tekka infiltrated the Great Vaults of Cato Neimoidia to take a look at the artifact as his proper request to do so was rebuffed. Shortly after he got his hands on the relic, he was arrested by Neimoidian guards.[2] "

I wonder if the device is going to appear in Episode 9 and if Rey and Kylo are going to use it. It would maybe make sense with the whole prime jedi bit...maybe. I'm probably stretching here.

The question I want to know, romance aside, if Rey and Kylo are both important to the force, how will this turn from light vs. dark to joining towards grey go? Good, bad, in the middle? It reminds me of Bendu off of the Star Wars Rebels. There was a nod in the Last Jedi that Kylo and Rey work well together, lightsaber survival wise, and for me I want more. How will this grey force bring balance to the force since it's been out of wack for a while?

on a different note, is there a way to make images smaller?

 

I don't think it would be turning toward 'grey/gray' actually.... Bendu was ultimately shown to be 'wrong' by Kanan; you can't just stay in the middle, you have to fight for the right. Kylo couldn't stay with the FO/on the Dark Side. I think it's more about accepting the darkness within but not allowing it to control you; basically what Rey is already doing.... She uses her anger in fighting but doesn't let it make her make the wrong decisions; i.e., killing Kylo in TFA or in TLJ when she wakes up first from Holdo's maneuver. Kylo so far has struggled with what to do, and has done the right thing at times; i.e., not killing his mother, saving Rey from Snoke, but ultimately let's the Dark Side control him by taking over the FO, killing his dad, etc. They work well together when they are both fighting for the greater good/Light Side.

 

Not sure I'm on board with this theory but I could see Rey being forced to kill Kylo. In this scenario Kylo has returned to the light toward the end of the movie but for whatever reason Rey will need to kill Kylo or let him die.

 

It is worth noting that a lot of details from the reference books don't impact the movies. This device could be just to add a little color, not set up Episode 9.

 

But there are plenty of things the Story Group has seeded into the various books, comics, tv shows; etc., that have tied into the films. So perfect for speculation, imo.

 

I know the 'chosen one' theme was already used in the PT, but the above theory may tie into a new interpretation of the prophecy of the Force, more specifically that both Rey and Ben are each part of the new chosen one - or the new Prime Jedi, if you will.

Both of their stories contain elements of various savior or hero myths. Rey is born into poverty, unknown. Ben is born into a well known 'royal' bloodline. Many mythic heroes come from one...or both. We also have the in-galaxy myths already built in that they follow. Ben is trained and destined for greatness, but he falls. (Anakin) While Rey gets swept into a rebellion, with Han and Chewie on the Falcon no less, and learns that she is connected to the Force. (Luke). Now we come back to savior/hero myths. Ben rejects his destiny, kills (rejects) his father and suffers conflict. He enters into his wilderness of conflict, is tempted by the light, and becomes the wild man. Rey also rejects her destiny - she refuses the lightsaber (Excalibur) at first and only wants to go home. She ends up tentatively accepting her path but remains in her own wilderness, searching for her own meaning, actively seeking answers - even in the darkness. They both have mentor figures to point them in a particular direction. They both end up also confronting and ultimately rejecting their mentors (coming of age). One represents the light, one the darkness. By the end of TLJ, Ben remains in darkness, alone, but in the penitent position with light shining on him. He realizes that he is still not whole. Rey is welcomed into a new family, having accepted her destiny - but she realizes that she is still not whole.

I am not suggesting a Reylo conclusion to this setup but that they are definitely two sides of the Force that will be instrumental in bringing about balance.

(edited for grammar)

 

TESB=TLJ, ROTJ=IX

As far as soap opera elements are concerned its as if the Bespin duel and subsequent reveal and cliffhanger had been moved to ROTJ .

Only this time those events would develop around a shared traumatic event from the past (an event that prompted Leia to send Ben to Luke and that put Rey in Jakku) and also would involve a third person from that past acting as a dramatic bridge or lever between the two (the equivalent of Leia. "So you have a twin sister...if you dont turn, perhaps she will" kind of thing)

Luke knew this person, this woman. ROTS would also be in the mix, with Obi-Wan and Anakin bringing themselves to help each other and themselves, an idea almost used in ROTS.

Who, Rey or Ben,would be Obi-Wan this time? And who, Ben or Rey, would be Anakin this time? Who will be Luke in Bespin?

.

 

If Reylo has to be a thing I want Kylo to be outside Rey's window with a boombox blasting Stan Bush's, "The Touch".

 

I am still hoping no reylo...

 

Well, if the song plays directly from Rey's mouth, it can explain pretty much anything. It can explain any difficulty with forgiving Kylo.

Ben: How can you forgive me after everything I've done?
*Rey's mouth opens mechanically*
Rey: You got the touch! You got the power!

I would pause for several moments, and then I would accept the explanation.

.........

*nodding head*

"Alright. This is okay. I accept this ending. This works for me. It's a logical, satisfying explanation. Good ending."

It would end all arguments. Omg how can people forgive Kylo? LOL, did you see the movie? Rey said Ben had The Touch. Question answered. Omg that doesn't make any sense, how does that answer my question? Idk, what don't you get about Ben having The Touch? If Ben has The Touch, then him being forgiven is self-evident.

 

I gotta say...this is the most brilliant idea I have ever heard for salvaging TLJ. I will go ahead and borrow it for my own rewrite.

 

You got the touch. You got the power

of the dark side

 

@cerealbox may have been the first one to post this idea.

 

I'm not of the opinion that TLJ needs to be salvaged or rewritten. I tend to stay clear of the Criticism thread for that reason.

 

@RiddleMeThis same here.
I'm still debating which movie I liked the most, whether TESB or TLJ.

 

I still have my doubts that Kylo will die. in terms of ending 9 movies in a way that feels like it compliments all the other movies into one package, it would just seem kinda generic if it was the bad guy dies and the day is saved.

Kylo is a very conflicted character who even the writers seem to be unsure of themselves how bad he is and what good is left in him, so i am expecting more stubborn conflict within his character. plus probably more explanation to why he turned to the dark side since that part is very unexplained.

With Rey i suspect they will have to keep some kind of connection between them so it doesn't feel like a generic good vs evil situation.