ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

So true. From all I can tell they had no use for even Rey other than her being a love interest for Kylo. That is her sole purpose. And as a result their view of nearly every other character, every possible plot, every other possible "ship" was determined by first by how it affected Kylo and second how it affected Reylo.

Been a SW fan for decades and kept up with the fanbase even before there was a thing called the internet. And I can say assuredly there has never been a subgroup part of the SW fanbase that has been so eager to tear down other characters, so more focused on shipping than plot, story or the overall franchise, so eager to dismiss and degrade the original and or more established characters in order to champion their favorite character, so more willing to start debates with fellow SW fans or even actors of the franchise all the while claiming they were victims. They've become indeed the loudest voice of this dwindling, burning carcass of what was once a largely energized Star Wars fandom. I suppose congrats are in order.

I am certain there are plenty of Reylo fans with the good traits and wide range of views that you point out. But it doesn't change the fact that there are a large quantity who are just the opposite and have done some of the most counterproductive nonsense that I can recall from any segment of the fanbase. As they say one bad apple spoils the bunch and in the case of Reylos, in my estimation, there are a bunch of bad apples.

I've come across fanboys/fangirls of Luke, Anakin and Boba Fett who could be annoying, obnoxious and a tad overprotective of their favorite characters too but Reylos have taken it to a new level. This may be a result of current ways people communicate online and how fans refer to themselves as "armies" who feel its their job to go to war for their icons. Still I won't let that be an excuse for some of the utter ridiculousness I have seen from Reylos. What is worse of all the majority of them seem to be really young and new to the SW franchise in general. That new blood should be a cause for celebration but instead its often a cause of older fans to check out altogether as a result of some of these newbies apparently having little respect for what had been established in the GFFA universe.

 

I guess I am okay with it because she did want to kiss him. I hope you are not implying that Han forced himself on Leia?

 

So outright stating Han is a sexist, misoginyst and what, rapist because he kissed her?

I don't agree he is any of those things. I don't think he is any of those things or that writers had any agendas writing him that way. And I don't think I would think that even if he weren't my favorite OT character and I didn't love him. Leia and Han had a consensual relationship and to think otherwise would really cast a shadow over her character, which I chose not to even speculate about.
What you think, however is your prerogative. I believe in freedom of thought.

 

No one's saying that. That's an absurd read. Han and Leia's relationship were written in a time where different things were acceptable and it shows.

Take this scene, for example: Leia repeatredly asks Han to let go of her and not only does he not, he acts dismissive towards her request and when he finally does let go of her, he mocks her (with an honestly sleezy and creepy comment)


Han and Leia's relationship is consensual, but a lot of the relationship's writing is misogynistic. In the aforementioned example, Leia is expressively establishing her boundaries - enforcing her bodily autonomy - and not only is Han not respecting them, he actually mocks her for having them.

Back in the day, this was not seen as that big of a deal. It's just suppose to be part of their banter and romantic tension: Han is not meant to be in the wrong and, if I remember the media of that time period right, Leia is suppose to be seen as overreacting: "Hey, all he's doing is holding her. She's making a fuss over nothing, probably because she doesn't want to admit she's attracted to him."

 

I think Romance in star wars is represented at the age they live. Han and Leia in the 80's Anakin and Padme in early 2000's, and Reylo in this age.

 

If Reylo's supposed to represent the modern era, they couldn't have picked something more out of touch.

 

I don't know from where am sitting this is the modren era. at least the US, lol.

 

I'm just going to point to the post that I've made elsewhere.

One of my all-time biggest problems with the Last Jedi has always been that not only did they ignore everything that Kylo Ren put Rey through and not only did they view none of those things as obstacles to putting them in a relationship, they looked at a film where a woman is tormented by someone to the point where she tries to kill him and decided that yes, this should be the person that she falls in love with.

 

Just because you like something doesn’t make it good on even acceptable by today’s overall standards. I enjoy the Han and Leia relationship and banter as well but can see the problems with is the especially in the scenes that other posters have shared.

Society has moved on and that’s a good thing doesn’t mean you still can’t like an enjoy something and acknowledge the problems. That’s exactly the issue with the Han and Leia relationship it’s something from the past. Rey and Kylo’s is even worse by old standards and today’s.

 

Existing in the modern era is a different thing than representing or reflecting it. I do think there is a comparison between Reylo and reality, but not a complimentary one for either, and one that probably errs into territory not for this board.

 

Rey and Kylo in TFA was definitely a representation of our times. A man stands over a woman, painfully violates her as he tells her he can take whatever he wants, and she overcomes him? Timely and empowering. Reylo, on the other hand, is an absolute slap in the face to our times. Remember when Rey looked upset in TFA as she was violated? Nah, she didn't actually mean it. She was actually attracted to him, and now wants to cozy up next to him by a fire and fix him. The fact that this came out right in the throws off the #metoo movement is just embarrassing.

 

I don't see her being attracted to him, olny finds a friend who like her fells totally alone in the world. and by the end of TLJ she shuts the door on him.

 

Regarding the difference in the handling of the Han and Leia romance, compared to the so-called "romance" or relationship between Kylo Ren and Rey, I think that the main reason why people today still give a pass to Han and Leia, but still have a problem with Rey and Kylo Ren is a question of writing and story consistency.

From A New Hope to Empire Strikes Back, we see Han changing, starting to care about others and fight for a cause, not just for his selfish interests, not only with the help of Leia, but also with Luke: let's remember the scene between Luke and Han before the battle of Yavin, when Luke tries to wake up some sense in Han. And Leia was still not really interested in Han saying "he has to follow his own path". Han still has a character development in the OT because of what his friends (Luke and Leia) told him, and do around him.

The difference with Rey and Kylo Ren is that the story in the ST, as well as the character development doesn't make any sense (if there's any) and the story is all over the place from The Force Awakens to The Rise of Skywalker. Even for me, the kiss scene between Rey and Kylo Ren at the end of TROS didn't make any sense when watching the movie because I didn't see any kind of character or romance development in the entire ST between those two people.

 

This is Rian Johnson talking about the hut scene in the Last Jedi, specifically about how John Williams had initially composed ominous music for the scene and how Rian Johnson had asked him to change it because it wasn't how he had envisioned and written the scene.


"C'est un point de vue valable, mais je n'avais pas pensé la scéne comme ca. Je voulais qu'on reste du point de vue de la jeune femme: je souhaitas qu'on puisse croire á cette romance."

"It's a valid point of view, but I hadn't thought of the scene like that. I wanted us to stay in the young woman's point of view: I wanted us to believe in this romance."

Romance is how Rian Johnson meant for the scene to be envisioned when he wrote it.

Source: French magazine "Classica" and Google Translate

The "only finds a friend who like her feels totally alone in the world" is also part of how the film ignores everything Rey went through. For example, Kylo Ren took away two-thirds of Rey's found family - Finn and Han - which makes him responsible for the loneliness she feels because if he hadn't, they'd have been there with her. That last gif in my post is Rey literally crying in grief into Finn's chest.

 

I don't think Rey is lonely purely because 2 people she met recently ain't with her to keep her company. Her being lonely is more because of an emotional detachment she feels. for example she says "I need someone to show me my place in all of this.".

its about feeling lost and not feeling anyone can relate to her. which she says in TROS when she says she doesn't think anyone really knows her.

 

For the most part, I really liked her in TFA and TROS, not so much in TLJ. In TLJ I think she was out of character especially with her literally shipping herself to Kylo Ren. Something far more in-character would instead of shipping herself to Kylo's vessel, she would have stuffed the pod full of seismic charges (courtesy of Jango Fett) with a note saying "Kiss my arse, Kylo". That's just me though, maybe I'm missing something deeper about it.

 

Are they? I don't think they're the best, at all. Whose more right?

I didn't say they were a minority. I don't think that matters. But I also think that the movie studio doesn't always pay attention to all the fans, but I think moreso the loudest, whether they're a small minority or not. Though I don't know if I'd buy that out of all the people who saw these movies, the majority were into reylo. I'm not using math. I'm using what I see human perception as being and/or what they may think the math is.

I wouldn't automatically assume they see it as a minority, whether it is or isn't.

I wouldn't exactly assume, myself, personally, that someone who ships reylo is a strong fan of Rey, imo.

Rey doesn't reject him based on that he's hurt her or people she cares about. She cries and asks him not to go this way in his thing about the past dying.

Why would women enjoying the story means it's not harmful and/or demeaning?

That belief isn't sexist. A woman can freely see nothing wrong with being submissive. I think the way in which the male treats the female, and how the female treats herself/deals with that, is where the finer details of whether or not it's sexist, come into play. The Bible does point to men being the head of the household, but it also tells that men's bodies belong to their wives and vice-versa. It gives specifics for the husbands in how they treat their wives, which doesn't include mistreating them. If a woman wants to abide by that, she's free to do so and it doesn't mean it has to be sexist. Just like a man being in the opposite position doesn't necessarily have to be anti male.

 

They could've written Luke to not operate the same way the other jedi did.

I wouldn't automatically agree with that. Han is a pain, but I think he's not doing anything particularly forceful, though more crass and unclassy, to me. Leia is into it when he makes his move. Han's attitude of, I think, to me trying to prove she has feelings for him, is something I think isn't strong working as a whole in the movie as is, imo.

Why would them considering it not toxic equal them having material to back that up and/or why would that mean it's not? And why would GA opinion being that mean that it's not?

I'm sorry, I think that by the nature of consent, Leia being someone who isn't exactly a meek lady, her accepting the kiss and doing so back, is a showcase of her consent. Is Han being more aggressive than I think works? Yes. I'm inclined to think that if you're touching a woman's hand and she asks for something otherwise, taking it away from her hand is the polite thing to do, imo. But I also think consent is something that can be given in the situation by interactions, not necessarily verbally. If Han went in for the kiss and Leia didn't respond, I think that would be a showcase of rejection, but that's not what happens. Some women may be into a more aggressive man. This doesn't make their viewpoint wrong. I think it's all in the finer details and how the woman feels about it. This doesn't mean a man should act this way in general.

 

But, wasn't that the point?
Their love nearly destroyed the Jedi and both Anakin and Padme were severely punished for it.
Padme agreed to marry Anakin because she felt bad for him over losing his mother. And even in episode 3 before Anakin goes to Mustafar, he promises Padme that after this everything will be different which shows that they weren't happy with their marriage.

Padme and Anakin love story is much better than Rey and Kylo. At least the former tells a story that how Love can destroy life.