ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

Indeed. That move is only for really, really bad fight choreography.

 

If you think Leia gave Han consent. I will just say if a women says no and you touch or kiss her i wish you luck in your legal troubles.

Referencing the worst choreographed fight in Star Wars is not a great way to make a point. It’s almost like Ridley was reaching back to make sure Driver was there.

 

it looks like a musical dance number. Anything goes!

 

Before I make my point, I just have to say: that last sentence makes me uncomfortable for so many reasons. Moving on:
You seem to have a pre-occupation with consent and equality as the ONLY important factors in whether or not a relationship is acceptable. Let's try a hypothetical: Say you have a friend who is married. She is in her marriage because she wants to be, and has no fear that anything will happen to her or anyone else if she tries to leave. There is undeniably consent. Say her husband sometimes gets drunk and beats her. Say sometimes she gets drunk and beats him. She "gives as well as she gets". Do you not find your friends relationship problematic?

Sure, in some instances consent can be given non-verbally. HOWEVER, non-verbal consent cannot override a verbal denial of consent. How is that not problematic in 2020?

 

Because it’s a musical......a musical.......there is nothing as amazing as a musical.....with song and dance.....and sweet romance.....and happy endings happening by happystance.....

 

Except right after TROS, the editor actually commented on how they were aware the kiss wouldn't be liked by everyone.

“I always said, ‘The movie will tell us whether they should kiss or not. We will know by the time we get to the end of our process, if it should happen.’ And I felt it should, and [director J.J. Abrams] agreed with me, and other people who saw the film agreed. I know it’s not for everybody,” she said of the kiss. “I know there will be people who wish they hadn’t, but this is a film that was never going to please everyone, and I think that the reviews are kind of reflective of that. The things that certain people love, other people hated.”

I mean, she's flat out admitting here she knew people would hate it. Have we had anyone say "I mean, we knew some people would hate that we killed Leia, but it had to be done," or "We knew some people would hate Rey Palpatine..."?? I can't recall anyone saying that. But we have the editor going on record admitting that she knew some would hate the reylo kiss. Doesn't say great things about their story.

Also, them not even knowing if they'd kiss or not is very much "is she Rey Palpatine? Hmm, I don't know." AKA: not planned at all.

 

Anyone who says the TLJ fight scene is horrible, must have forgotten the prequels sometimes boring and horrible fight scenes. The best from those is stillthe Maul fight.

 

There's no lightsaber fight more boring than Kylo vs Rey in TROS.

 

I happen to love the prequel fight scenes, but even if I didn’t, one thing being horrible doesn’t mean another thing can’t also be horrible. The new movies should be looking to improve anything the old ones did wrong, not repeat the same issue.

 

The prequel lightsaber fights are literally anything but boring.

 

Sure there is obi wan and Anakin vs Dooku in ATOC. Or Obi wan vs Ventress in the clone wars movie.

Lets be real here in all the PT lightsaber fights not even Dooku in ATOC.

 

If they were in a job and Leia wasn't into it, I think that'd be an action someone would take and I think I wouldn't stand against that, no matter the standards of the times, whether then or now. But that's not what's happening. Particularly after reading the transcript for this, I see it as more of a seduction. He doesn't kiss her against her will. He doesn't push her past anything that she's not into. Even the hand holding, which she does verbally resist, she speaks on her hands being dirty. Han may be the one taking action, but Leia's not a meek girl, being manipulated and/or harrassed by a powerful man.

Nothing that happens in the ST between Rey and Kylo is the same as Han and Leia. Han never assaults, forces on, or actually threatens Leia.

I don't think Twilight is about the good girl fixing the bad boy.

I wouldn't say that about the bad boy good girl thing, in the way ST does it.

Leia didn't say no. She said to let go of her hand, which she continues, with asking it again, with the added, "My hands are dirty." Han responds with, "My hands are dirty too." The structure of this situation, to me, more plays along the lines of Leia coming up with an excuse to avoid the hand holding, and Han, imo, telling her that her hands being dirty doesn't matter, as his hands are dirty too, concluding with, "What are you afraid of?" as, imo, he's picking up that she's making up an excuse to avoid touching his hand. That excuse isn't, "I don't want you touching me."

 

GL or Dave Filoni saying something doesn't equal fact.

Why can't Luke choose to operate differently?

 

Simple quit being a jedi.

 

Why can't he choose to operate as one and have those things?

 

I will let the ladies of the thread address most of this one. That may have qualified as seduction in the old days but doesn’t qualify now. He expressly ignored her requests then kissed her. Doesn’t matter if she kissed him back would still qualify as sexual harassment in 2020 and isn’t a great look. He also does it numerous times. Anyhow this is off topic for this thread at this point.

 

Does it? In the movie, apparently she's okay with it. This doesn't mean I think this is how people should operate in real life. But in the context of both their characters and the movie, what should I think? Han is a rapist, instead of trying to charm his way into Leia's heart with seduction and reluctant, on her part, hand holding? Leia is a meek, spineless woman whose too afraid to say no to the big strong man, instead being a guarded abrasive woman, whose attracted to Han, but is reluctant to express her emotions, and is letting Han hold her hand because she's actually into it, and lets him kiss her and kisses him back because she's into it?

If a woman likes a man being aggressive, it's acceptable to her. And that's no more sexist than if a man likes a woman doing the same. And I don't think a woman doing that is sexist. If both people, consenting adults, are into it, who am I, or anyone, on our own, to tell them it's not acceptable?

The Kylo/Rey situation in TFA is a woman being held against her will, by someone with powers that she can't possibly fight, who has kidnapped her.

I think he didn't ignore, but sidestepped. Not polite. Not what I think is a way to do things. But I also think Leia isn't a submissive lady who just accepts what she's being told by someone she's not in a romance with. If Leia didn't want to kiss him, she wouldn't have accepted and kissed back. If she was someone who was meek, I'd think that there may be more to it, in that she may be being pressured and actually uncomfortable with the situation. But I think she's not. I think if Leia didn't want him holding her hand, she wouldn't talk about them being dirty. I think she'd jerk her hand away. And I think Han would get the message. Neither before or after that do I think he pressures her. I think he taunts, seduces, banters, snaps at, but not pressures. If I were to view the movie as consistent with both characters, why would I see this situation as any different than those?

 

The ladies have already spoken about this and as it's a tangent I suggest we let this die here. The comments your making are clearly from a male perspective on this whole thing and whether or not he is seducing her or that it works in terms of the time when it was written or what a woman likes or doesn't like about a man. The issue is she expressly and verbally told him to stop multiple times during the entire escape from Hoth. She keeps pushing him away and he keeps coming. That's not okay period he doesn't try to talk to her he just keeps coming the exact same way not caring about anything she says in 2020 that is a problem and constitutes sexual harassment period there is no question about it. Han is making Leia uncomfortable.

If you like it that's fine and are there some people that enjoy that type of interaction, if the person doesn't well your going to be in a lot of trouble which is why in 2020 it's not acceptable and we get seminars about it.

 

I can see where you are coming from. But i think the ideal jedi is supposed to this monsk who travels and discovers new culture and learns from it and has many things to do. Jedi are not supposed to be involved with any military and there mission is to the force as the force whills it. Sure jedi can have children but then they abondon their one mission and that is to the force. Think of Qui Gon Jinn as the ideal jeid in the PT, do you think he tought of having children and family, he broke many rules of the council so why not that one. I see Luke similar to Qui Gon Jinn and Rey in similar journey as she gets older.

 

The Force Awakens dedicates a significant amount of time and interactions to building Rey's relationship to Han and, especially, to Finn from strangers to found family, and to showing how much they've come to mean to her over the course of their journeys together.




The only way to boil their relationship down to "2 people she met recently" is to ignore the majority of the film's content.

The reunion scene signifies that they've become her found family which is part of the culmination for Rey's arc in the film.



Finn's line ("We came back for you") is even shaped like the answer to one of Rey's early lines.

Rey: "Don't give up hope. He still might show. Whoever it is you're waiting for. Classified. I know all about waiting."
(BB-8 chirps inquisitively)
Rey: "For my family. They'll be back. One day."

The script even points out the line/action's significance to Rey's character:

FINN
We came back for you.
She is speechless -- this is all she's ever wanted anyone to
do. Chewie TALKS -- and Rey's eyes nearly tear up.

FINN (CONT'D)
What'd he say?

REY
(shrugs, smiles, though
nearly in tears)
... That it was your idea.
Finn awkwardly smiles. It's his nature. They embrace.

When she's talking about not seeing her family in the mirror, she says that she never felt so alone. It's not just about her feeling displaced in the grand scheme of things and even if it were, that would still require ignoring the other just-as-important-if-not-more-important part of Rey's characterization: family.

The line "I need someone to show me my place in all of this." is also part of the problem with how Rey's characterization is ignored by the Last Jedi for numerous reasons. For one, Kylo Ren is just 1 person she met recently who tormented her the entire time (including by taking away two-thirds of her found family) to such an extreme degree that she went for his head during their fight. Two, there's absolutely nothing in the previous film (or the second one) that could make Rey think that Kylo Ren would be the sort of person who'd find her a place in all of (this) that she would want. Three, Leia is force sensitive.

Source: https://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens.html

 

I think of it as more hyperbolic to make my point. Is Han a creepy perv? Is Leia a fragile, easily intimidated woman? Leia's personality isn't what makes it acceptable. But I think it's apart of those finer details, of who these characters are and what they'd be willing to do and/or accept. Similar with Kylo/Rey. Is Rey the just super compassionate woman, who'd fall into the arms of her attacker, to save him from his darkness? Is Kylo the damaged Prince, whose so lost in his darkness and so conflicted that he only needs of Rey to show him out of darkness? Or is Rey the woman who hated Kylo for killing her mentor figure? Is Kylo the villain who kidnapped and tried to intimidate Rey, assaulted her, killed her mentor figure and hurt her ally? I think, to me, these situations, and who their characters are, define how we understand their interactions. By that situation, I don't see Han as a creepy perv or Leia as fragile. I see him as a teasing man trying to charm his way into a woman's heart and her as a guarded woman, that's letting Han touch and kiss her because she's into it?

If we really think how bad Han is in this case, why take issue with Han being mistreated in ST? Who cares what happens to him, if we think that? It shouldn't matter, when it was acceptable or not. Is Han in the wrong or not? Why like him if he is?

I don't like it. That's not my point. My point is that if Leia accepts it, who decides, for a fact, that it's not acceptable, for her or anyone, that may feel similar? I think on Hoth Han is more teasing her and annoying her. I think I remember him touching her only happens off Hoth.

It constitutes sexual harassment, to her, if she'd feel like she was harassed. But does she? Based on what I think is their situation often being more flirty or bantery, I don't think she would. Any touching, I think, was incidental that Han tried to mess with her with, not groping or assaulting or such.