ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

My belief was that it was never about prettying him up, i think it was about showing him as just a regular guy. like i said previously in my theater people laughed when he took his helmet off. and i think its because he just looked like a kid. he doesn't quite match the deep tone of menace the helmet gave him. and he didn't look very confident as a villain either. he looks nervous and i think that was intentional.

Adam driver isn't an ugly guy. and Hollywood likes to have good-looking people involved. so naturally he looks how he looks.

I know people like to bring up the hair looking so good after he takes his helmet off. but have you seen the Mandalorian? Their hair is always maculate after they take the helmets off. well apart from once when they needed Mando to look beaten up.

 

I actually thought the chemistry between Finn and Rey more like that between brother and sister, perhaps because they're close friends i real life.

Interesting fact - the age gap between Rey and Kylo is the same as that between Han and Leia in the OT.

 

Brothers don’t ask sisters if they “have a boyfriend - a cute boyfriend?”

Actually they retconned Han’s age to be 32 in ANH - same as Poe’s in TFA.

 

To be honest I see nothing in the film, or in any interview/quote, that leads me to believe that Abrams was *intentionally* wanting to characterise Kylo Ren as some sort of sexual deviant (which is what's implied when we talk about "creepy stalkers")... which isn't to say that he doesn't come across as being a creepy stalker figure, he kind of does..., but I think this is more a consequence of poor characterisation, rather than it being something Abrams wanted to portray specifically. I do think Abrams does set up Kylo Ren as being a handsome 'fallen prince', which is underlined in the Max Von Sydow dialogue. I obviously don't have any first hand information re. what Abrams' intentions were re. Kylo, but the 'transforming nature of love' that is personified in the story of Beauty and the Beast is somewhat cliche now... so it's quite easy to tap into that cliche, even if one is not aware of the origin/source material. It's something I first thought when watching TFA for the first time, and I think it kind of played out in TROS with Kylo's redemption and the 'kiss'...

Wasn't he? I didn't know that. I would be interested to know whom Abrams had in mind....

I don't know? Driver seems like a good looking bloke to me... and he certainly seems to have many admirers, but yes, he's not a Brad Pitt (or similar). However, as with the OT, it seems to me that by casting 3 leads of a similar age, and similar physical attractiveness, there's a deliberateness in making them relative peers... and that's usually cinematic shortened for friends and/or lovers.

As I say, I have no idea what Abrams' true intentions were, subconscious or not... this is just about interpretation of the material. All I can say is that when I watched TFA for the first time, it seemed fairly obvious to me that Abrams was setting up a 'Kylo Ren will be redeemed by Rey's love' story... And at the time, I thought that was either being set up as a 'love' of siblings or a romantic love. And given that Abrams decided to make Rey a Palpatine (although it seems that the comics may be looking to make her a Skywalker after all), and that Kylo is redeemed by Rey, and they share a romantic kiss, that this is what Abrams indeed alluded to in TFA. But obviously that's just my interpretation of the films.

 

Adam literally sitting in front of the camera saying JJ intended Kylo to be “reverse OT Vader” who got more and more evil is proof enough that JJ never intended Kylo to be Rey’s love interest.

Then again, reylos seem to like to pretend that video doesn’t exist. Despite being in the TROS bts documentary.

ETA: Both Daisy and JJ called the interrogation scene “torture.” That, too, is cut-and-dried.

 

But that assumes that Abrams had everything worked out... which of course he didn’t. I think he just presented options that *could* be progressed in the next films. I don’t think he was married to any one idea... which is part of the problem, but it doesn’t mean he didn’t have a preference. That he cast 3 leads is only what Lucas did in ANH, and in doing so, presented 2 potential love interests that could play out as a love triangle. But obviously the biggest factor in determining Abrams intentions is TROS. He chose not to have Rey and Finn be romantically involved. He chose to have Kylo redeemed and for Rey and Ben to share a romantic kiss. Now of course it isn’t a fairytale ending, given that ‘the handsome Prince’ dies, but he is ultimately transformed through love.

As per above, I think Abrams was presenting options, neither exclusive to the other. Finn’s existence is no more evidence of Abrams not wanting a Reylo dynamic, than Kylo Ren’s existence is evidence of Abrams not wanting a ‘Finney’ or ‘Reyinn’ (whatever the suitable word would be) dynamic... but that one seems to take prominence over the other in TROS is the biggest takeaway for me.

I can’t agree. His Star Trek films are full of really sexist tropes IMO. Enough to tell me that positioning a character dynamic, where a woman falls for her abuser, wouldn’t be an issue for him... like at all. I don’t even think it would be on his radar when he so readily reduces young woman to panties and bra shots.

But he still opted for a Rey and Kylo kiss, thus cementing ‘Reylo’ as a truism of the ST.

Yes - like I said, I think Abrams was creating an option for either a sibling or romantic relationship. I’m not sure he was committed to any single idea, which is part of the overall issue IMO... but that doesn’t mean that the possibility of a Rey and Kylo romance wasn’t something he deliberately built into TFA, just as it could have easily been a brotherly/sisterly relationship that transpired if Johnson had gone that route.

 

Given that Abrams actually made two out of the three SW sequels, it’s kind of funny that people pretend that Abrams didn’t have the option of taking that idea of ‘Kylo getting more and more evil’, and playing that out in TROS... which of course he didn’t. He redeemed him. So Kylo is categorically *NOT* the reverse of Anakin/Vader. He’s the feckin same... That’s on Abrams...

 

I think there might be some confusion re who ultimately controls a movie. I thought the Snyder cut saga would have made this clear to the average fan online, but apparently not.

When a director is hired by a studio to make a franchise movie, he does not get “final cut.” He is an employee, with bosses. If the studio wants X, the director does X. If the studio wants reshoots, rewrites, stuff cut, stuff added, it gets what it wants.

This is why, for example, the unmitigated RJ hate is absurd - ultimately, KK and - most of all - Disney was running the show.

But I think folk find it easier to hate on personalities - like directors - than corporate suits.

 

Thats because the director is the one guiding the story and alot of the ideas are from the director. Corporate suits certainly have a level of creativity, sometimes high and sometimes small, But ultimately there is a higher percentage thats the director's movie.

For example we know the deathstar in the water was JJ's idea. it has been since TFA. and its also been said the dagger lining up with the wreckage was his idea. now some people say that was dumb because it wouldn't work that way. but that wasn't a Corporate suit. that was JJ Abrams.

 

According to what I read, Eddie Redmayne was also considered for the part.
@JoJoPenelli ......Bloodline states that Leia was nineteen in ANH, which makes her thirteen years younger than Han; Rey was also nineteen and as Kylo/Ben was supposed to be twenty nine he would have been ten years Rey's senior - less of an age gap than Han/Leia.

 

I will always argue that Finn had a better story arc in TLJ than he did TROS. i don't think Rian Johnson hurt Finn at all. he gave Finn MORE than he got in the next movie for crying out loud. the only reason people don't notice is that Finn is with Rey and Poe which gives the illusion of being a big part of the events. Least in TLJ he got his cool moment that was just his.

 

To me there was a telling shift around the time of those October/November re-shoots. Daisy was comfortable firmly espousing her clear disdain for Reylo prior to that time. JJ and DR and even JB all seemed more comfortable with the narrative. Then, after the reshoots, Daisy starts having different talking points in regards to Reylo. The entire cast seems incredibly uncomfortable. JJ seems to become completely disconnected in the lead up (which is very unusual for him). I would be shocked if the kiss wasn't added by a panicked LF in reshoots (it was never mentioned in the very accurate JP leaks).

 

I don't think the cast were that hung up on Reylo. whether they agreed with the kiss is each to their own really. but from a storytelling perspective, Rey and Ben connected how they did.

 

I actually think RJ developed both Finn AND Poe in TLJ. I'm genuinely saddened that we never got to see Finn 'going undercover' and leading a stormtrooper rebellion, and by the time Poe became general in the Resistance it was too late in the day to actually see how different it might have been under his leadership.

It never ceases to amaze me how major a character Poe became when he was slated to die in TFA!

 

Right. Not the same age difference as Han and Leia. I noted that because some mistakenly think the difference is the same and part of a deliberate romantic parallel. Which it wasn’t.

However, Han/Leia was 70s/80s and was developed in a way that would be considered unacceptable in a family film nowadays. That includes the age gap.

Irl ofc, 10 years is not an unheard-of age gap in couples. But when making narrative choices for modern film, age gaps tend to be smaller.

As Alan Dean Foster opined, JJ had intended Rey and Finn to end up together. Finn being just a few years older than Rey is more consistent with this than had Finn been Kylo’s age.

ETA: @godisawesome

I’m not saying studios always micromanage or otherwise interfere - I’m noting that ultimately they have the power and control. And if someone about a movie makes them dissatisfied or unhappy they have the power to change that. That also makes them responsible for anything objectionable that ends up in the movie.

I deeply dislike TLJ and don’t like RJ but everything I dislike about his style and how TLJ turned out can and should be laid at the feet of Disney and LFL. (They’re not shy about completely redoing movies, remember.)

 

He is also the only one they made decision about killing Luke and after losing Carrie I just find that to be one of the most selfish decisions anyone has ever made while making franchise films. He wanted the last say and decided he got it even though it was the worst decision he could make. So i think a lot of the hate on him is justified. He also has said he could do what he want and was able to tell his story. I do blame DLFL for not having more oversight in crafting the story of the ST

 

They had oversight. If they gave RJ final say in killing Luke, then RJ is rightly blamed but DLF shoulders more of that blame because they allowed RJ to do that.
(To be clear - they would not have actually delegated authority to RJ; DLF/Disney ALWAYS had veto power.)

 

According to Johnson they let him decide and he had entirely free reign in his story which i think was a giant mistake but as such is the case he is rightly blamed for all of his own terrible decisions. RJ said KK left it up to him which I can’t understand and I blame both of them. They both share the blame fairly equally IMO. KK approached the whole ST as a producer and not a studio head and that was a giant mistake she just wanted to get the movies made and did not pay enough attention to content and storytelling.

 

That doesn't mean that KK and D/LFL didn't have veto power though. It just means they approved of everything. It's not like RJ had the authority to override a veto from TPTB, just that it never got to that point.

I think someone in a position of power wanted Snoke gone and so RJ obliged them.