ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

Right, because if Han went looking for the map, Kylo would have split him in half along with Lor San Tekka. What an opening that would have been.

 

Or...maybe he takes his dad prisoner to interrogate him. Han refuses to give up info and tries to help save his son instead. And then Finn rescues Han. They both crash back on Jakku and now Kylo is royalty pissed. When Snoke finds out that Han escaped under Kylo's watch, he suspects that Kylo is being pulled to the light just like his grandfather did. He suspects weakness so Kylo overcompensates. Then Han can tell Leia that he saw their son and tried to get him back but it didn't work. Leia then responds with "he didn't kill you because there's good in him still. There's conflict in him.".

And when they all meet back up at the end of the movie --- Kylo kills Han to prove to his boss that he's really a dark sider.

I dunno. Whatever. Just spitballing crazy here. I mean Poe is basically the new Han in a way right? If Han is there you don't really need a Poe in the story. Poe is basically superfluous. Even though he had such great chemistry with Finn, and everyone loved their short time together in that movie. Finn sees Han as a mentor just as Rey does. So simplify the story and build characters in the right way.

You could still have a Poe character who's in the Resistance and leads the squadron to SKB to blow it up too.

 

I've never put much into into it either....until this silly thread. I mean, this is possibly a vague area in Star Wars.

Are starships in SW like cars? Bikes? They are treated casually in the films. If you can operate one you can operate most? It seems to me, that Star Wars treats spaceships like a common skill set that translates from one to another. Characters in these films that can fly one kind of ship can, generally, fly most kinds of ships. However, maybe that assumption is incorrect?

Is each ship a completely different experience and you need specific training on each one? We never see Luke fly the Millennium Falcon. Is he unable to? I think he could, but I'm not sure if the films make this clear at all.

Are we sure that Rey had zero Force abilities until this moment? I Or (as awakenings often are) is this simply the moment she became aware of her abilities? Anakin and Luke both exhibited skills that translate to being very good, or maybe very lucky. Yet, they weren't aware of what this (The Force) was until they were told. Were they? Luke didn't know he had The Force. He was skeptical of it. No?

I think I only partly agree with you on this.

Those who are naturally strong in the Force often can use it instinctually and without training.We have examples of this in the Star Wars mythology beyond Anakin. There are several Star Wars stories that feature an untrained (yet Force strong) youngster displaying superhuman/natural abilities. Anakin is not singular in this regard. Many times the Jedi come to recruit a kid because they hear stories of a child with such proclivities. Ahsoka's origins show her instinctually use the Force to calm a wild beast/monster.

Secondly, heredity DOES play some part in being strong/able to access The Force. You don't agree? Vader's children are strong in The Force...like their father. "The Force is strong in my family." No?

Well, you are missing out, I think. This kool-aid is delicious. Watch each trilogy in real time is different than watching them in an already baked retrospect. I assure you, some fans were just as upset with the OT and the PT as they were rolled out. Star Wars has been full of inconsistencies, retcons, and plot holes since (at least) Return of the Jedi. These only grow as the saga/franchise expands. If some of them are too much for you, I get it.

 

@DarkGingerJedi
There’s so many ways that it could have gone. I enjoy tossing around concepts and ideas. Finn rescuing Han could have worked in a scenario that eliminates certain elements. Plus, I know John would have loved having more scenes with him. I really did like Poe in TFA though and I also liked how viscous Kylo was. Kylo killing Han in cold blood without an ounce of remorse really had me invested in how big of a villain he could be in Star Wars.

@jaimestarr
Yes, I’m aware that there are some that could use the force without training. I consider them to have the force “awake” within them. True, the force is strong in the Skywalker bloodline, but that has nothing to do with abilities being passed down. I’ll pass on the Kool-Aid. I actually liked Rey in TFA, but her actions and the failed discombobulated attempts explain her character after that has lead me to lose interest in her.

@anakinfansince1983
Yeah, the pickled Snokes were so unbelievably bad and unnecessary. I also agree with Kylo being full of it. He literally lied and said Rey killed Snoke. I don’t see how anyone can take anything that comes out of his mouth seriously.

 

Instead of making Rey the daughter of a defected Palpatine clone, they probably should have just made Rey the clone. That way there's a more precise and direct connection to Palpatine himself.

And the people who ditched her could have just been caretakers who felt so bad for this child that they kidnapped her and left her on Jakku because that would have been a better life than whatever experiments the Sith cult were up to.

Then knowing she has no real family, that even the people who she thought were parents and weren't, Rey can then accept a new family name for the first time in her life.

 

Are we supposed to know Rey possesses "amazing piloting skills" before the fact? Part of the thrill of the scene is wondering how these two are going to manage to work together in tandem to pull of the escape. All we need to know if that Rey can fly. I still don't see what your issue it. You were surprised that Rey could fly a spaceship? Was anyone else in the theater with you confused during this scene? "Whaa? The girl in the new Star Wars can fly a spaceship?"

Secondly, She wasn't exactly "amazing" at it. She had some wily maneuvers, yet she also nearly wrecked The Falcon as well.

They did what? Told us that Luke was a pilot? Anakin wasn't a pilot. He was a pod racer. Is this the same as a pilot?
Rey says she is a pilot and you don't believe her because.....? You needed more backstory on her credentials?

I think you are ignoring the fact that all three of these characters leverage their instinctual ability to use The Force to pilot beyond their skill set and ability level.

IMO, Rey's clunky (yet inspired) Jakku escape with Finn on The Falcon is easily more pedestrian than:
-Anakin, single handedly winning the Battle of Naboo at the age of 10 in his first time ever in a cockpit of a starfighter.
-Luke, outlasting all other (more seasoned) rebel pilots to single handedly destroy the Death Star.*

*With the big save from our boy Han Solo.

No one is surprised she can fly. Rey and Finn are surprised with her hotshot maneuvers that go beyond her skillset. Like Luke and Anakin....say it with me now...she can do so because of everyone's favorite plot convenience... The Force. Like Luke, and Anakin, Rey can tap into it instinctively without training. This is not some new Star Wars convention.

You know what, you are right in a way. We don't learn Rey has The Force until after she flies the Falcon. So, her ability to fly outside of her skillset is played as a sueprise to her, Finn, and the audience. With Luke, and Anakin, we knew they had The Force before hand. With Rey, it only makes sense in retrospect*. This doesn't bother me. Yet, if you want your SW films to use the same exact set up for each film, I get why it might bother you.

Yet, this is not what you were/are complaining about. You seem to be upset that we didn't know Rey could fly ships before she flies a ship. Yet she clearly says she can fly.

*Though, I do have to ask: You really didn't know what they were doing when Rey was surprised by her ability to fly beyond what she thought she could? You didn't see where they were going with her and The Force? Like, you were stunned when the lightsaber flew into her hands during the film's climax?

@godisawesome

Phew. That's a lot of reasons why you don't like Rey being anything other than a Solo/Skywalker. Most of it boils down to your usual gripe? You don't like Kylo Ren and Rian Johnson?

I've said it before....you seem to spend a lot more time talking about these SW films you don't like than the ones you do like. It's cool, but it perplexes me. Do you think if you applied as much careful analysis and thought to the other SW films you could find many flaws? Tonal and thematic incongruities of character, and plot, etc? I bet you could.

@Artorian_Stormtrooper

Well, I guess it depends on what you consider "awake." I think we are venturing into the sometimes murky "how The Force works" area. Is The Force a thing that manifests late like X-Men mutant powers? All the SW mythology I've consumed suggest that you basically have the capabilities at a very young age...thus, why Jedi are able to identify potential Jedi as children.

Well, what do we consider abilities? Instinctual use of The Force as demonstrated by Anakin (using The Force to pod race), Ahsoka (taming a beast as a toddler), broom boy (broom to hand telepathy), etc...are (or are not) abilities that you speak of?

@DarkGingerJedi

I would have just made Rey a clone* of Luke Skywalker created by Palpatine on Exegol. Maybe pull an Heir to the Empire and have Palpatine possessing Luke's severed hand in a Star Wars-y mason jar. That is a stronger thematic way of making her Rey nobody but also the heiress to both the Skywalkers and Palpatine.

*This could also explain Rey's TLJ cave vision of herself as copies.

 

I can agree with this. “Rey” could have just been a name she adopted because of the helmet that she found. I could also see the Sith cult with a huge shrine to her and we could have had her fight a bunch of deformed “Rey” clones.

 

Yeah, take Poe out almost altogether. Have Han hunting for Luke. While everyone else has long given up and moved on, Han is the only one left with faith that Luke is still alive. Even Leia has moved on and is buried in her work with the Resistance. He comes across LST on Jakku who tells him the First Jedi Temple was on a planet called Ahch-to, but good luck finding because its not on any star maps. While on Jakku, he runs into Rey who can do amazing feats and it reminds him of when he first met Luke. Maybe he even says so. He brings both Rey and Finn to Maz, an old pirate buddy who's over a 1000 years old because maybe she's heard of Ahch-to. She's got an ancient star map from an old Jedi book. And slowly the pieces begin to emerge.

Eventually they all meet up with Leia and Han is like I found him. I know where Luke is. Leia doesn't believe it but they all travel to Ahch-to together. The FO also learn of this and arrive as well to blow up the place. Skip all the nonsense with SKB and blowing up the NR. Just focus on Luke as the McGuffin. As an orbit battle takes place, they land on the surface and find nothing. No one is there. Just old stone huts. Then Kylo shows up and argues with his parents. Kylo stabs Han and is gravely injured. Rey force grabs a saber and is about to fight off Kylo. And just then, Luke shows up and stops all of it. He blocks Kylo's attacks. Kylo is then injured and runs away back to the FO and Snoke. We get a OT3 reunion. Some quips. Han dies surrounded by Leia and Luke. And then Rey and Finn stay on the island to get trained.

 

I seriously think you cherry pick things just to make an argument.

•As I’ve said before, every one has the force. The majority of us know this. It’s when the force is “awake” within you that you’re able to actually sense things or use it.
•Its only with Rey that we see powers come out of nowhere like shes a mutant from X-Men. Though I guess we’re supposed to turn a blind eye and drink the Kool-Aid because “It’s Star Wars”
•Are any of those “abilities” passed down to them? There’s a difference between simply being strong with the force and actually using it. We don’t see Luke prematurely using force choke do we?
•Again, with Rey, she suddenly has force lighting because granddaddy passed it to her. That’s literally not how it works. Though, it’s Rey, right? Any excuse will do for her apparently.

 

You should have seen Palpatine fly the falcon.

We're just lucky Rey got those falcon-flying genes from him and not her mom's lack-luster and boring accounting skills.

 

In short, YES. It’s called a setup and is a basic tenet of good storytelling… An instance of not setting a particular thing up can be an oversight, but multiple examples just reflects a deep rooted incompetence and/or a script that has been cobbled together without the necessary writing rigour.

 

I try not to delve in to this section of the forum too often. But when I do its a constant reminder of how much a let down the ST is, they really dropped the ball. So much potential and set up from the previous films was wasted. No really great new ideas were explored. In my head I love the idea of Kylo hunting down Sith artefacts and their lore from the deeper Sith past and also from his grandfather as he builds a new Empire, but none of it came to fruition. It strikes me as something that was treated as a cash cow where they thought they could throw anything together and hope it works. I also realise I'm a 50 year old man that shouldn't think about these things too deeply, but Star Wars should be treated better than that.

Will I be there for the Rey film? Of course I will, all in the hope they realise what a mess the ST was and can course correct it with a better film that Rey features in.

 

Some of the stuff that is appearing in (and being set up by) Ahsoka, is exactly where the ST should have gone IMO... Hunting ancient artefacts, different galaxies, Nightsisters, zombie stormtroopers, dark Jedi etc. etc. reflects some of the boldness, or the willingness to present new things on screen, that the ST sadly and woefully lacked.

 

After TFA, I was hoping that Rey would become more of a Tomb Raider type character. Like part of her training would be for Luke to send her to locations where she had to go through dangerous obstacles to acquire hidden jedi artifacts. Finn would be more like Luc Devereaux from Universal Soldier. He would be going through force training with Leia in order to learn a unique set of skills that would help him destroy the FO from the inside. Kylo, of course, would be on the path to becoming a Sith Lord. So much for that.

 

The flip side of this is payoff. Without proper set up of characters, stakes, etc, any payoff that comes later isn't going to come off as impactful or perhaps even as organic within the story. This is exactly the issue with Palpatine Returns, and even Rey being the daughter of his failed clone.

Within the first 20 minutes of ANH, we're told that almost everything we need to know about Luke. He's craves adventure and excitement. He's impatient and whiny, but heartfelt and determined. He's a good pilot, nephew, friend. His father was a great Jedi and pilot as well, and Luke could be like him.

That way later one when he's jumping in the X-wing we know that Luke has the skills to pilot it well. The part where the force comes into play isn't piloting the craft so much as learning to trust the Force, quiet his mind from the distractions, turn off the computer, and follow his heart. That's how he blows up the DS.

With Rey, we're told very little. She's scavenges. She's alone and desperately counting the days since her parents left. She seems kind and helpful. And that's about it. And then during the scene when they're running to the Falcon, she pulls out the "i'm a pilot" card, and then flies the Falcon almost better than anyone we've ever seen. Or at least to Han's level, and he was a really good pirate and smuggler who had years of piloting that ship. And then Rey backs off saying "i don't know how I did that'. Well then, that's not a skill and the Force is basically doing the magic work for her, which she doesn't even really know about yet. Which doesn't really feel as special.

And at least with Anakin, who was a kid who had "Jedi reflexes", and was a good mechanic, again we're told about them way in advance, and also told, he still kind of sucks at pod racing. He's never finished a race before. That way when he's fixing his ship during the race it all makes sense. And when he finishes it feels special. The Force isn't just a level-up power that comes automatically even for the Chosen One.

 

It's funny, I feel the same way about you. Honestly, I am just trying to understand your gripe as I feel that the ST is par for the course as far as "how The Force works*."

* Each new SW film/show somewhat expands the lore and mythology of The Force and it's powers.

Is this how The Force works? Han Solo. Why isn't The Force "awake" in him? Is his midichlorian count too low? Why is it "awake" in some, but not others?

I'm confused, you just said that when The Force is "awake" that people can sense/use it...then, you claim Rey gets her powers from nowhere. Yet, we have several examples of untrained people being able to use The Force instinctually without training. Furthermore, as far as we know, Rey has been Force sensitive since she was little.

I'm not arguing that specific abilities are passed down. Yet, one's "Force potential" or "being strong with The Force" is. So, the children of those who are strong with The Force are more likely to access/use The Force instinctually. No?

A question: Do you think Luke was trained to use the Force choke? It's an extension of telekinesis which ESB (wampa cave) showed Luke quite instinctually without training. No? We didn't see Luke trained to move objects with his mind. Yet, he could do it....instinctually.

Again, we've several examples of young (untrained) kids being able to access supernatural abilities via The Force.

I'm not so sure. I think Force abilities can (and sometimes do) manifest instinctually. I also think this varies depending on the person/Force user. Again, no one trained baby Ahsoka how to use The Force to tame a wild/angry beast. She could just do it. No one trained Luke on how to move his lightsaber telekinetically...he did it on instinct. The reason Anakin could fly a Pod is because he was using The Force....on instinct...without any training.

Again, Force users can often access/use The Force on instinct "feel don't think." Yet, they need training to control these powers and hone their skills. Rey clearly has no control of The Force lighting. It's raw instinctual power. Isn't that how "The Force works"?

Hmmm. What do you say to those who hold TLJ in much higher regard? I mean, I know appeal to popularity is one thing, and personal tastes are another, yet TLJ is often is put near the top of many a "Best SW films" lists. How do you account for this? A movie with no substance and yet....

Entertainment Weekly
Rotten Tomatoes
IGN
Vulture
Esquire
CBR

Are these people just idiots? Not as smart as you? Different strokes for different folks? Mainstream Media conspiracy? I just don't understand how a movie as fundamentally flawed (as you describe) can also garner so much acclaim and love?

Is it possible that the film simply doesn't line up to your specific SW tastes*? Nothing more, nothing less?

*I think The Phantom Menace should be much higher on these lists, yet I know that my tastes and the rest of the world's are not always the same.

 

So, I almost hate to ask, in your estimation....people who enjoy TLJ are viewing the film... incorrectly? Or don't simply get "Star Wars"? I mean, this is kinda what you are saying. Is it not? Let me know if I'm offbase on this...

 

In conclusion, the ST sucks.

 

I think movie critics loved TLJ because TLJ makes fun of Star Wars, which is what many movie critics have been doing for 40 years.