ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

I hated everything about that scene but especially the fact that there were too many rocks. When you compare how many of them blocked the exit and the [insane] number of them that Rey lifted, it's just so over the top. I get that the message was that Rey was the most powerful Jedi but c;mon man! Also, overblown music that was needed to make the audience feel cause there was no reason from the scene alone, slow mo, that garish green screen sheen, the attempt to rival a much superior moment in TFA (Rey calls the saber to her) - yes, JJ shot something that's actually better than Rian's, it was so so bad. I could feel the temperature drop in the auditorium. It's hard to explain but sometimes you can feel when audience is with the movie and when it's against the movie. This was the latter.

Rey's big Force moment in TFA

Spoiler

This is absolutely gorgeously shot. The snowy forest gives it a perfect fairytale feel. Snow falling is beautiful and romantic, very at home in the setting that feels right out of a high fantasy. Camera loves these actor's faces. They are so beautiful, the whole scene is just stunningly gorgeous, no wonder it launched 1000 shipper fanfics. Red and blue light from the sabers perfectly punctuates the scenery that's mostly black (trees) and white (snow), the yin and yang background that will be repeated in next 2 movies when these two characters have scenes together (TLJ's elevator, TROS's Force flash fight). The moment is a great and welcome surprise (thanks to misleading marketing) and it's very meaningful. It's the game changer. Also, acting is just . His Marry Me face

Spoiler

and the cinematography is really right out of a fairytale and gives the sense that they are in their own world, just two of them, it's so beautiful

Spoiler

Hats off that they made this set feel like a real place. Iconic scene, probably one of the best and most memorable in the whole Saga even if the whole movie wasn't up to snuff.

Rey's big Force moment in TLJ

Spoiler

LMAO! Sorry, this is so ugly and stupid. Rocks just happen not to fall on their heads even though they were above them just a half second before. The sheer ugliness of Looney Tunes. Reeeey. So Poe, etc started to run after Finn but then disappeared lol where did they go? Did rocks fall on them lmao? This is so freakin bad.

 

Agree the TFA snow scene is gorgeously shot.

 

Actually, I think the moment where Finn parts the sea of rocks is really neat. And I've never been a fan of the SKB forest, as there's nothing fantastical about it.
The TFA scene is somewhat stronger, though, because of its context.

 

Context trumps visuals any day but TFA scene had both a strong context and visuals. TLJ one had neither. TLJ has many pretty scenes but this is not one of them.

 

The message was not that Rey is the most powerful Jedi. The dramatic payoff was not her actions but what she now represents.


Rey lifting a bunch of rocks is whatever.

We've seen cooler feats before even from Rey but that is us as viewers. To the Resistance, the few of them left, this is the first time they've seen Rey in action. We saw her do a bunch of Jedi stuff throughout all of TFA but for these folks they've probably just heard stories about her. Luke was their only symbol of hope: a legendary Jedi that was meant to save and help this dying rebellion. He did that. But even with his help they hit a literal wall up until another Jedi, Rey, saves them at the last moment.

To the rebellion they now have a real face, a "legend"coming to their aid to save and fight with them. She's their symbol now and that was the payoff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I get that but the scene just isn't executed well and it doesn't help that it tries and fails to recreate the magic of her saber call in TFA. This is a far inferior Awe-inspiring Power Moment. Far inferior. And big culprit are distracting Looney Tunes rocks.

TFA scene is less is more which is strange for JJ but it paid dividends. The movie builds up to this moment, it's played thematically like Excalibur, there's no distracting CGI. It's very simple and effective. Kylo tries to call the saber to him. It flies past him into Rey's hand. They are both stunned. Time seems to have stopped. Snow is falling. He's in awe. She lights the saber. He spins his. Burning Homestead starts playing as soon as the saber lands into her hand. It's most signature part plays over Kylo's reaction. It's perfect.

TLJ tries to add more grandeur to the proceedings but that only distracts from the idea. The sheer number of those damn rocks and their poor quality (weightless, cartoonish) is what one focuses on. I don't even remember what music played. I just remember that it was blaring but some elevator music whatever. Moreover, from audience POV, this is just "OK so Rey can lift 1000 rocks" instead of "Wow, she can use the Force". Resistance reaction is just too brief to drive the point home unlike TFA where Rey and Kylo are looking into each other's eyes and looking and looking so it really sinks in that Rey is the [secret] Jedi.

 

It's a good thing the rebellion doesn't know that their "symbol" values the life of the man hunting them more than their own lives.

 

This is the kinda toxic bull**** i mentioned in the other thread. Give it a rest


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The Star Killer forest is a great location. While it's not fantastical, it's also one of the most classic fairytale like locations in Star Wars. A lonely snowy forrest at night. Very Grimm Fairy tales. Very King Arthur.

 

well said! It evokes beloved tales of the old. TLJ scene evokes...Looney Tunes.

 

What point are you trying to make?

 

That's true of all the ST - but TLJ does get the brunt of it because of how everything is out of character intentionally as Rian gave his perspective - whether its actual characters, how the Force works, or how boulders look.. His right and he obviously had permission but its clearly the point where the problems of the ST were bared clear.

That said - its not Rian's or TLJ's fault. Original sin of the ST was no good plan from the start. Play the telephone game with a classic story and you're going to turn people off unless its done well and the ST wasn't done well.

 

I don't feel that at all, though. That's the thing.

I mean exactly what I say. Take it at face value.

 

I get what you mean. Where I live looks like the forest on Star Killer Base for part of the year. I'd just have to walk outside in the winter and I'm there. It's not some exotic location like the deserts of North Africa, giant redwood forests, or snow fields above the permafrost line.

I think the Sequel Trilogy feels and looks much more European medieval and European Fairy Tale than either the Original Trilogy or Prequel Trilogy. Places like the old stone fortress Maz Kanata is based. The desert tomb / cave in The Rise of Skywalker. Nuns and monasteries on Ahch-To. Even the druid like structures on Exegol.

A lonely snowy forest, while something totally real in much of North America and Europe for part of the year, is also a location from these myths. Often it's not that this location is so fantastic as what mystery or danger are hiding in the cold lifeless dark night of the winter forest.

 

uh, you're not saying anything. I asked you what point you were trying to make and your response is "i mean what i say". What the hell?

 

I don't understand the confusion.

 

If they think that, why would they do that?

 

All this is what I loved about Kylo and Rey in TFA (starting from their meeting in the verdant Garden of Eden-like forest on Takodana). And I was hoping that sequels would expand on the medieval fantasy feel but that didn't happen. We got sporadic elements but nothing more substantial. I loved Kylo's entry to Palaptine lair with all those giant Sith statues. Very LOTR. But, yeah, they didn't stick to the aesthetics for longer than just few scenes.

But anyway, there's compilation of my favorite mythology and fantasy moments/sets

Spoiler

I absolutely adore this. Such sense of history. I wished the whole movie was in this aesthetics like my beloved LOTR.

Spoiler

Heinrichs won the Oscar for Sleepy Hollow production design and worked on TLJ's.

Spoiler

Very mythical.

 

Great post. Love the images!!!!

I actually feel like the Sequel Trilogy consistently keeps up the medieval fantasy feel through all three movies.... Or maybe it's a step early from that - back to medieval myth and European legend - the stories, ancient religion, and folk tales that would then inspire J.R.R.Tolkien and other authors to create modern Medieval Fantasy as a genre.

Star Wars adapts many different genres but it always does it in a way that is Star Wars. I think that's what we're seeing the Sequel Trilogy too. It' the way Attack of the Clones is part 30s or 40s detective story, but it always feels very Star Wars.

The Resistance fleet being chased by the First Order in The Last Jedi is basically a moving siege story. The Resistance is trapped in their strong hold. The enemy can't get in at the moment, but heroes can only hold out so long before their resources are used up and the enemy can breach their defenses. Even the way Rose and Finn slip away is like a messenger using a secret route out of the castle. It's the same thing with Rose and Finn later infiltrating the enemy camp.

Even Rose and Finns' trip to Canto Bight has overtones of a European merchant town.

And the story with Rey, Kylo Ren and Luke has themes similar to King Author and Mordred. In some version of the story Mordred is even Author's nephew.

This is biblical, but the only time a living mortal person brings back the dead through magic or unnatural means in the old testament of the bible is in a town called Endor. Long story short: King Saul disobeyed God and now he's on his own fighting a war. Desperate for guidance the king tracks down the Witch of Endor, a supposed necromancer. She takes the king to an underground pit and summons the King's dead advisor back to the living. The advisor tells the king he's toast.

Centuries later this became a very controversial passage of the bible for the medieval Christian church. Was the bible saying witchcraft and necromancy was real? Maybe because of that controversy the story caught the imagination of artists and story tellers as well. Witches in literature can be linked back to this. And it all seems very very Exegol and Palpatine.

I also feel like the armored characters in the ST overall look much more medieval than the PT or OT. There is a lot of Samurai and even WWII style choices in the OT. Also Greek and Roman helmets. The First Order just feels more medieval inspired with thin eye holes and shapes.

The ST never goes full Medvial Fantasy. It keeps it's one foots solidly in Star Wars the entire time. I think the influence is there for all of it.

 

ST could absolutely go medieval fantasy if it showed the beginnings of the Jedi. Since TLJ introduced Jedi books that strongly hints at the time without computers. It would be interesting to know whether they had some other means of space travel or where confined on one planet but faced opposition, hardship, etc.

 

IMO, this is partially true. Not having a plan was practically suicidal, but it wasn't an absolute certainty it would fail. IMO, after TFA, there was enough potential there for a really great second and third act. I actually think the first act can be completed without knowing parts II and III, as long as you have a basic idea of where everything is headed (which they clearly didn't). I think it's actually impossible to do a part II of a three act story without knowing pretty much what's going to happen in the third act. There is a different relationship between the acts, and the first one is essentially a set up. Acts two and three need to work in tandem though, in order for it to actually make sense as a story. So I blame KK for allowing acts two and three to be made up as they went...but not so much act one. For all its faults, act one delivered enough IMO. But RJ failed so hard with part two that there was truly no way to fix the situation with part three. Act two hadn't been executed properly, in that it didn't play its part as the middle episode, and all that that entails. For the two years after TLJ, it wasn't like we were all desperately waiting to find out how the story ends in part three. Part two simply didn't deliver on that level.

 

I agree a good story could have resulted from TFAs foundation - whether from JJ or others. I hated TLJ and it felt like a mockery of Star Wars but I still can give RJ the benefit of the doubt if he started at 7 and had 7-9. He might even had been better if he saw the final cut of TFA before making TLJ.

Unique takes from different directors reflected only simplistic understanding of what GL did in the OT and I'm still shocked TPTB from Disney greenlit that.

 

It looks pretty Loony Tunes to me. One of the worst-looking shots in Star Wars, in my view. And during what was supposed to be a climactic moment in the film.

 

Would less rounded rocks have made the moment more climactic?

 

You know, I actually agree up until the "benefit of the doubt" part. I think RJ is the "doesn't play well with others" type when it comes to writing. It wouldn't make him unique, but it certainly makes him wrong for the role of working on anything that he didn't create. I look at a person like James Cameron who had a huge rep for being a terror to work with. The guy wants it done the way he wants it. (he does get results though.) Yet, he took the reigns of an existing franchise (Alien) and added to it. He built on the lore and expanded what we knew about it, all without tearing down the first film or "subverting expectations" even though he was working on a sequel. The way RJ repurposed not only OT characters, but characters we were just introduced to in the previous film just reeks of self indulgence at the cost of the overall narrative.
Episode 7 gave us a story where finn learns to finally stand and fight, that self preservation can take a back seat when you've formed strong bonds with other people. Rey learned to stop waiting for a family that'll never return and to move forward with her new family. TLJ essentially gave us finn's story over, accept this time its not about the personal bonds he's formed, but his new devotion to the resistance. Rey, is now a meta audience surrogate who's just as obsessed with her parentage as we were. Luke, who ended episode 7 with a deeply emotional expression, implying that he too felt han die, not to mention staring at his father's lightsaber, is now...pissed off? He chucks the lightsaber, and walks off to change his clothes. This sequence of events was like a literal recoloring of luke's characterization from even TFA. Why was he standing there in his jedi robes? Who knows, he just slapped on some darker, more mundane garb because this is how RJ wanted luke to be. This was all done under the ugly guise of "subverting expectations". Many have pointed out the problem with this being 7th sequel in a franchise. I do completely agree that both of these directors love star wars, but in a superficial manner. They don't seem to get what made the franchise such global sensation.