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Amph Rian Johnson's Benoit Blanc Mysteries (Knives Out, Glass Onion, Wake Up Dead Man)

Discussion in 'Community' started by bstnsx704, Jun 13, 2022.

  1. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Written by Phillip Glass
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2022
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  2. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    I thought Glass Onion was decent, but the first one was better.

    Murderer I guessed about halfway through and the ending was disappointing. But most of the acting was good and I liked the location.
    I look forward to the next one
     
  3. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It’s definitely closer to being a straight-up satire that just happens to have a mystery revealed at the end, rather than a mystery that just happens to have a few satire elements like Knives Out. The killer from the first film, for instance, is much more dangerous than the killer in this film, and Blanc and Marat needed to be considerably sharper to solve the case in Knives Out, while here, Blanc dismisses the killer as too obvious early on.

    …But to his credit, Johnson created whole new characters to make this satire with, and the fit their roles like a glove for the satire. That keeps the satire and comedy from screwing up any established characters, and allows the film to mostly just be a black comedy, playing to this cast’s strengths.
     
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  4. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Two Truths & Lie winner! star 6 VIP - Game Winner

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    Mar 22, 2003
    it was fun with lots of modern jokes , but the murder-mystery was terrible.
     
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  5. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 13, 2014
    The form is a lot like Ocean’s 12 when the entire audience is kept in the dark about what the protagonist is really doing. I liked that this movie revealed that roughly 1/2 way through,


    I say this movie doesn’t try to top the murder mystery of Knives Out,
     
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  6. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Oh, clever. I was looking for him to show up in some tiny bit when the movie started, but I forgot about it pretty quickly. That was a cute way to get him in there.

    And, yes, the mystery element of Glass Onion pales in comparison to Knives Out, which really had me completely on the wrong track. I guess that's the subversion or something? It's still not super dramatically satisfying, but whatever. I wouldn't say it's "terrible;" it is what it is, which is a conceptual twist on the "mystery" genre. Just one of a few reasons I prefer Knives Out, but I respect the solution to Glass Onion for what it is and it works thematically, so it's satisfying in that way.
     
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  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I like that it's about more than just figuring out Whodunnit but more Whydunnit. And a sort of reverse stretch of WhoAskinWhoDunnit.
     
  8. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    I like that even Blanc makes it clear that this is no grand twist and that “it’s just dumb!”
    His disgust and anger at the whole thing helps to sell it. He’s been craving a mystery to solve when we meet him and the first one he gets is hardly a challenge for a mind like his. He’s mad.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
  9. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Knives Out was also a satire, and not at all about the mystery itself. It was just better executed than Glass Onion, and the family dynamics were more interesting (and much funnier) than the influencer crew/ founder/ funder thing. But I enjoyed both, and hope RJ makes many more.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
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  10. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Chosen One star 8

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    Mar 22, 2005
    Wouldn’t it be cool if he did something else tho
     
  11. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
  12. dp4m

    dp4m Mr. Bandwagon star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    I mean, though... the movies are doing very different things.

    Knives Out is a straight-up Agatha Christie novel, with Benoit Blanc as Hercule Poirot.
    Glass Onion is a Clue movie, with Among Us thrown in for good measure, whilst also lampooning Elon Musk.
     
  13. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Right. But Knives Out is no more about the crime than Glass Onion is. There’s satire and outright lampooning in both. I just think the former does it funnier.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
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  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I'm still waiting for a "He's an idiot!" gif from the film.
     
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  15. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Soooo... Glass Onion is either:

    a) A fun murder mystery and way to spend two hours, with some neat riffs on the state of the world

    ....or....

    b) A total assault on underserving of it tech god Elon Musk, for who else could Miles Bron be, and thus this utter wokery must be fought across the internet.

    You can, of course, always go for:

    c) It's a movie.
     
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  16. dp4m

    dp4m Mr. Bandwagon star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    [​IMG]
     
  17. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think I’d have to disagree about the nature of the two films, though I still enjoyed both, and my disagreement might inform why I think that Glass Onion is funnier while Knives Put is much more tense and clever.

    Knives Out very much *is* about and defined by the crime of the story, the intrigue within it, the tension and deception required for the protagonist to try and escape the frame-job, and about a much cleverer villain whom the film actually acknowledges is clever.

    Some of this is from the format - because Knives Out starts out more like a conventional procedural with the death having already occurred while Glass Onion starts more like a Christine novel where the first act is establishing everyone first, Knives Out hits the ground running with its crime.

    Some of it is stylistic - Knives Out simply takes itself more seriously and plays far more with tension and tragedy, using a dry and sardonic level of humor more as a complement to the story, rather than an overriding core of the story, while Glass Onion is at its core about the comedy and the satire, to an extent that it exchanges significant tension and drama for greater emphasis on the laughs and commentary (in a positive sense, for the record.)

    For instance:

    Miles’s murder of Duke is actually pretty slick and cunning, enough so the film’s insistence it’s “just” dumb sort of relies and depends on the humor of Blanc finding it rant-inducingly dumb to actually portray it that way, as well as the film’s much more overt parody-level of satire (which I tend to find the superior way to do satire, since there’s less chance of confusion or a misguided fanbase, and generally more laughs, too.) In fact, the murder method is very close to the central crime in the Nero Wolfe mystery Champagne for One, where it’s portrayed as clever, and *is* clever, provided the culprit carries it out quickly and smoothly, as Miles does in Glass Onion.

    There’s also a significant difference caused by the film having to have Blanc dismiss Miles as too obvious a culprit, then call that out as another part of the humor, in order for the story to work; it’s covering for a much less clever part of Glass Onion’s story by using humor to emphasize the satirical message.

    And of course there’s the generally more delightfully cartoonish way the cast is played in this film versus the Knives Out cast, which also helps the satire here, while the more serious portrayal in Knives Out helped the mystery there.

    Knives Out is a mystery film where the satire is strictly background, unexgaerrated, and even debatably satircial at times; many of the “take that!” moments are too mundane to really be outrageous the way satire thrives. In contrast, Glass Onion is arguably a rather poor mystery for its central crime but an excellent satire because everything’s just a bit more over-the-top, so that we’ve sprinted past any possible “No duh. ” moments of restrained “satire” in favor of “Oh, you bet your sweet *** this is satire! In fact, this is satire the Nth level! We”re going to make this baby so satirical that jaded cynics will find it too overt!”

    …Which again is the better type of satire to me.:p
     
  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    So, murder mysteries involve the writer actively deceiving their audience!

    Who knew? This is mind-blowing.

    Yes, this is apparently a thing now. Did this crap happen to Knives Out at release? I wasn't paying much attention to it back then.
     
  19. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Well, no, because Knives Out is a straight-up up murder mystery with some quiet satire popping up occasionally, while Glass Onion is a funny straight-up satire with a murder mystery thrown in.

    Satires are allowed to cover their butts with a bit of winking and nodding at the audience where a mystery really needs to be something where you have to be very, very clever to see the vulnerability in the story.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
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  20. soitscometothis

    soitscometothis Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 11, 2003
    I watched this with my sister over Christmas. It was fun. We were both reminded of The Last of Shiela, and sure enough it turns out it was an influence on the film.
     
  21. dp4m

    dp4m Mr. Bandwagon star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Definitely don't tell anyone about Witness for the Prosecution, Ten Little Indians, Gone Girl, or hell even Ocean's 12...
     
  22. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 27, 2000
    Just watched it. Very good movie. There would have been no point to it doing exactly what Knives Out did, so it didn't.
     
  23. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Or any-and-all “crime and punishment” TV shows, which, if anything, are far more manipulative than movies because they have to produce literally decades worth of content…
     
  24. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony 2x Two Truths&Lie winner/SOS Person of Culture star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Mar 9, 2003
    I liked Glass Onion better then Knives Out.
     
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  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I saw Glass Onion over the weekend. It was interesting, and suspenseful to a point, and the mockery of rich ***holes and people who think they are above Covid restrictions was great.

    But I still found the movie and Johnson himself to be pretentious, like he was mocking people who like murder mysteries.
     
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