ROTS Chapter 16: Tragedy of Darth Plagueis DISCUSSION

thanks for cueing us up and in Cyrogenic - nice inclusion there of George's direction, story and emphasis.

so much so much is behind all the decisions/direction/focus and most never know how they came to be.


thanks for taking care of us C.

 

Actually the delivery of the message that Obi has engaged Grievous was part of the revelation scene, not the opera scene (the opera scene was about Palpatine telling Anakin that the "clone intelligence units" have found Grievous on Utapau). But nice observation anyway, Cryo. What is interesting in this context is the preceding statement by Mace: "Anakin, deliver this report to the Chancellor. His reaction will give us a clue to his intentions."

Mace was right: the reaction actually gave a clue to his intentions - namely to seduce Anakin. But obviously they didn't understand that clue, neither did Mace nor did Anakin.

 

EDIT: Oops! How did I balls that one up? It must be because Palpatine mentions Grievous at the opera. Hehe. The slippery bastard had me going there! Nice observations, mandragora. I think you just rescued my point from looking totally misplaced.

And thanks for the compliments, lovelucas.

(Though you may not be so complimentary when you hear what I have to say about the ruminations sequence.)

There's a lot of conscious and unconscious intent in these films.

I was just listening to the music that accompanies this chapter as edited into "Symphony for a Saga" (though I hasten to add: I also own the official soundtrack). It's really quite brilliant. I think the music here, moreso than the actual Emperor's Theme, suggests a kind of plague (which is appropriate given what/who gets mentioned). Palpatine is a pestilence that isn't going away. The music heightens this aspect of him and suggests an elemental evil. He truly is no ordinary Sith Lord at this moment. If you listen very carefully, you can also hear what sounds like someone running their finger along the rim of a glass - a suggestive touch that says Anakin is skirting the edges of something and that things are about to shatter. I'm very surprised John Williams didn't get an Oscar nod. His score for Revenge of the Sith is a full-bodied affair that encompasses the bold, the beautiful, the serene, the sinister, the adventurous and the tragic. But... what else is new, right?

 

The acting between Hayden and Ian was fantastic,one of the best scenes of the whole saga,i can't fault it at all.

 

This scene IMO is one of the most best and powerful scenes in the PT. Ian and Hayden acting were really top notch in this scene. I liked it when Palps grins, because you can tell that he was the one who had killed Darth Plagueis. Even through I knew from reading the ROTS that Palps had killed Darth Plagueis, it was still good to see it hinted in the film.

 

These is one of the most dramatic scenes of the entire saga...You can just see Anakin stewing in his lust for power and knowledge...

And the whole Plagueis/Midiclorian thing? AWESOME!!!

 

I'm working on something for this.

 

I could just see what was really going on between the characters in that sequence.

 

I'm gonna go grab the scene thing I wrote a (month and a half?) ago. I'll try to copy it word for word, but it's likely people will think I'm making it up on the spot.

What do you mean?

Edit -
Okay, I have to type this up before the edit time runs out. lol. It'll be kind of in point form.


-The hologram advertisements tie the GFFA to the real world, perhaps a vision of our near future.
People are walking and laughing, oblivious to what is really going on around them.
-Anakin is late for his apointment, and runs to Palpatine, much like he runs to the Obi-Wan meeting in an earlier scene. Obi-Wan's and Palpatine's reactions are obviously contrasting - "You missed the report on the Outer-Rim Sieges" - very formal compared to "Ah, Anakin. Sit down." The fact that Anakin is running also shows that he cares what each mentor thinks.
The structure of the scenes have also begun to place Anakin closer to Palpatine. Obi-Wan in chapter 10 delivers the news that the Chancellor has requested Anakin's presence, they discuss how the Clone Wars are going well. Similar discussion in this chapter, but the scenes have gone straight from Padme to Palpatine instead of the same but through Obi-Wan (make sense? )
-The "classiness" of the surroundings were perhaps put there by Palpatine to show Anakin the fruits of his efforts to end the war? Also creating the illusion that he is moving up in the world. I like the shot of the outside of the opera house, it adds some scope. The statues of women with their arms outstretched is probably symbolic of Anakin's mindset, and also from an interesting contrast with the statues at Padme's apartment, which are actually holding something. Cryogenic, help me out here. I know what I mean anyway.
-Um, onto the dialogue. Try to picture the lines without my interfering comments.
"You wanted to see me Chancellor." (So I'm of course here)
"Yes Anakin, come closer, I have good news. Our clone intelligence have discovered the location of General Grievous. He's hiding. In the Utapau system." (Palpatine seems to enjoy betraying Grievous like this. He's essentially just prioritising one tool (Anakin) over the other (Grievous).)
"At last (Shows Anakin is stressed by the current climate), we can capture that monster and end this war." (Anakin has developed a nasty habit of putting a face to galaxy-wide problems The use of monster is also ironic because it demonstrates an attitude that will help lead Anakin to become the monster. Anakin also replaces Grievous (sort of) in an effort to "end" all wars).

(I'm going onto the next post or I'll run out of time)

 

A friend of mine made an interesting comment to me recently.

Because the balls are different sizes, and because they appear so organic and fluidic in nature, it's like they're continually changing shape and growing, which is analgous to the nature of Anakin and Palpatine's relationship and the growing power of the Dark Side. The balls also look like they're being fertilised and/or promoted into growing with little creatures/filaments; also analgous to the insuations that Palpatine makes and encourages to grow in Anakin.

 

I thought the whole Sperm-Egg connection was sort of connected to Sidious talking about Plaguies creating life and all. Anakin being that life. I thought of it as a small hint by Lucas as to what he's real thought on the ambiguous question is.

 

(Whoops, Cryo posted. Just continue this from the last one.)

-"I would worry about the collective wisdom of the Council if they didn't chose you for this assignment. (He's just casually stated that the ENTIRE Jedi Council isn't wise enough to handle this relatively simple task.)
"You're the best choice. By far." (He knows they won't chose him because Palpatine requested it. Anakin sees this as a kind gesture from Palpatine, when Palpatine is purposely setting him up for rejection. And Palpatine gets Anakin on Coruscant right where he wants him, with Anakin under the impression that "at least Palpi cares." I also see irony in the fact that sending Anakin would probably save them, but they don't send him because they think that's what Palpatine wants. And the delivery of "best choice" implies to me that he's thinking about Jedi dying as he says it. This is a stretch, but Palpatine is perhaps teasing the Jedi by telling Anakin what they could do to avoid their demise.
-"Anakin... (love the weariness in Palp's voice) you know (he says this several times in the scene. It's not forcing an opinion... or is it? It's clever writing IMO that he only says this about things Anakin did know beforehand.) I'm not able to rely on the Jedi Council. If they haven't included you in their plot, they soon will."
"I'm not sure I understand." (Notice that Anakin always knows exactly what Obi-Wan is talking about, but he is actually humbled by Palpatine).
"You must sense (because I fully respect your deductive abilities ) what I have come to (because Palpatine just stumbled onto this observation...) suspect. The Jedi want control of the Republic. They're planning to betray me."
"I don't think that..."
"Anakin. (Don't play dumb, we are all on the same level here) Search your feelings (Jedi-ish phrase). You know, don't you?" (It's cool that Anakin's interrupted line is the exact same line from Padme that Palpatine interrupted in Ep2). ("You know" is of course making Anakin feel like he is working this stuff out himself.)
"I know they don't trust you." (known fact from Anakin's POV)
"Mmm... (feigned thought) or the Senate, or the Republic, or democracy for that matter."
"I have to admit, (haha, he does have to) my trust in them has been shaken."
"Why?.." (Great delivery again) "They asked you to do something that made you feel dishonest didn't they?" (I lol at this every time. It's like Anakin is a little kid been caught by his parents. But Palpi understands Good acting from both btw)
"They asked you to spy on me, didn't they." (Anakin: Wow, if a non force-sensitive can sense it, how strong is the Jedi's corruption?)
"I don't... uh... I don't know what to say." (Anakin is way out of his depth, yet he doesn't even realise he needs to be on guard)
"Remember back to your early teachings. (to Anakin's surprise, Palpatine doesn't even seem to care about what he just "discovered") All who gain power are afraid to lose it. Even the Jedi."
(Something subtle I noticed here (well, maybe it's been mentioned) - Palpatine and Anakin discuss the Jedi as if Anakin isn't part of them.) ("Even the Jedi" is very provocative, but Anakin probably just views this as a political discussion).
"The Jedi use their power for good." (Even Anakin's defensive comment seems somewhat detached. This is likely something Sidious has worked on for years, taking advantage of the isolation Anakin's power brought). (Anakin also can't dispute the fact that the Jedi hold great power.)
"Good is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way." (The difference in the delivery of each of these words is genious. "Sith" is open-ended, and goes up. Makes it mysterious - endless possibilities, whereas "Jedi" is close-ended - "We all know about them. The delivery of "Jedi" sounds almost like Palpatine is disappointed in them )
"Including their quest for greater power." (Part of Sidious's real beliefs coming through IMO).
*Pause for thought* (I like this because Anakin seems

 

That's a stupendous observation.

Yes: it's "bread and circuses". The people of the GFFA are unaware of a huge evil sitting -- literally! -- under their very noses. This is a simple morality tale with no relevance to modern life, alright.

EDIT: That is not a jab at any one person. I'm talking more generally about the dangers of fascism and fanaticism that exist all over the world.

Does he run into the briefing room? Cool. Another neat observation.

The Outer Rim Sieges are an interesting event in the saga. Anakin and Obi Wan were fighting in them before ROTS starts. In fact, Anakin later says to Padme: "If the Chancellor hadn't have been kidnapped, I don't think they'd ever have brought us back from The Outer Rim Sieges..." We can see how Palpatine is manipulating things even here. Anakin says so! IF THE CHANCELLOR HADN'T HAVE BEEN KIDNAPPED! Palpatine started the war in the first place and now Palpatine has brought the lovers back together so the next stage of his seduction can begin. DARTHIRONCLAD also noticed another layer to the siege of Coruscant itself: fear. It induces fear in the galaxy. Yoda said in Episode I that "fear is the path to the Dark Side..." Palpatine is preying on people's fears to give himself more power; Anakin is a microscopic example of a macroscopic problem. Everyone is implicated in Anakin's fall. And everyone is implicated precisely because this thing is called "Star Wars". What do I mean? Well, Anakin essentially makes what Lucas himself describes as a "Faustian pact with the devil", but in "Doctor Faustus", that's all that really happens; Faustus might be living in a corrupt world, but we don't see that; his grab for power has no other context than Faust himself is vain and ambitious. But here, Anakin ostensibly goes to the Dark Side for someone he loves and claims to want to protect, only to later oppress and visit violence on her. Isn't this a profound statement about the reason people wage wars -- in protection of those they love? But, when people wage wars and employ violence, what does that say about their own characters, and what does that imply for the future of their own societies, and the loved ones they're claiming to employ violence in the name of, when they come back to them? It's pretty dark stuff.

It's not that Lucas is a total pacifist, either. The PT and the OT arguably examine, or otherwise depict, two different wars, and take two different viewpoints. The PT shows an unjust war and essentially argues that all wars are unjust; the OT shows a guerilla war and deplores the kind of cowardice and selfishness initially shown by Han Solo when Luke admonishes him for "turning [his[] back". So, all wars might be unjust, and blood will have blood, but when people are completely oppressed and have no political voice, how else are things to be changed? I think it's quite realistic. Try and find that kind of philosophy in another popular entertainment.

It makes sense. You could have something there.