[ROTS] Padme's "Will to Live"

Another thing, Padmé's world has been destroyed, and Anakin is largely responsible for that. When she is on her deathbed, it's not too far fetched for her to connect Anakin's (dark )deeds to the kids, she is pretty out it.

It also wouldn't be too difficult to connect Anakin Force-choking her to her ultimate death, if only that droid hadn't said "physically she's fine." When has anyone been know to be fine after having Vader do that to them?

 

This is an ancient myth combined with westerns, samurai films and Flash Gordon serials, not a children's fairy tale.

I didn't say "children's" fairy tale. Fairy tale relates to mythic tales of good vs. evil. Lord of the Rings is a fairy tale. It's dark, sure, but it's still a fairy tale.

Such mythic stories as the Legend of King Arthur used devices such as dying of a broken heart - do you consider this legend childen's fare?

 

That "physically she's fine" line... We could have done without that one couldn't we?

 

No, I think it is important. It absolves Anakin of her murder. That makes Palpatine's blame of him even crueler. And it makes his redemption in ROTJ somewhat more plausible.

 

When has anyone been know to be fine after having Vader do that to them?

All Admiral Motti (i think that was his name) had after being choked was damaged pride.

- O_F

 

Granted storm but I think that "she's lost her will to live" does that just fine. "Physically she's fine" only makes it more obvious.

 

All Admiral Motti (i think that was his name) had after being choked was damaged pride.

Anakin held Padme much longer, and caused her to lose consciousness, therefore there should be more damage.

Anakin is perfectly willing to kill his fellow Jedi. If that's not beyond redemption, then neither is killing his wife. He doesn't need to be absolved; if he feels someone has betrayed him, he kills them. Be they wife, Jedi, or Mentor, he brooks no betrayal and reacts indiscriminately.

 

I also think he gave Motti a light choke because he was merely disturbed, whereas Padme was the subject of his full-on rage and anger.

 

I like Padme's death. I think it was important to establish that it was her spirit that was causing her death, not physical problems because 1) that means Anakin isn't directly responsible as the Emperor says he is (although he is responsible indirectly via his decisions and other actions) and 2) shows that by choosing what he did, he fulfilled his nightmares. If he would not have turned to the darkside to "save" her, she probably would not have died on childbirth like had foreseen.

Explosions in space, lightning coming out of people's fingers, little green friends...probably some suspension of disbelief is needed here. If you were with the saga the whole way up until that part and then you suddenly say, "Whoa, hey, I'll buy the rest, but that Padme death thing, I'm not buying it," then there's problems.

 

Do you fellas honestly think she'd be allowed to keep her kids? No way.

They were going to be taken from her, for reasons of safety and security. She wasn't going to be able to look over them at all. Her life was ruined.

Her broken heart death works for me.

 

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. The kids would have to be hidden from Vader and the Emperor, just like Ben said in ROTJ. Padme might have known that. Losing her kids and her husband and her Republic would have been enough to break her heart for good. That would literally leave her with nothing left to live for.

 

Ahso. Good point. Of course, the audience isn't going to get that point until they go to a bar or a SW message board, are they?

There was a cut scene where Yoda et al discuss how the children will have to be hidden - it's redundant from a plot perspective, but not from Padme's death.

I really like the theme about Luke getting Padme's message about there being good in him. I thought the same thing the 2nd time I watched ROTS.

Maybe Leia's memories can be explained because she was in the womb for (a bit) longer?

 

"It also wouldn't be too difficult to connect Anakin Force-choking her to her ultimate death, if only that droid hadn't said "physically she's fine." When has anyone been know to be fine after having Vader do that to them?"

I don't think Anakin was going full throttle with his choke-hold. He held her there long, but we don't have any clue as to what that entails. We're sitting here overanalyzing everything like we know the full effects of every force move, but we don't.

I think Anakin was frustrated because he realized he had completely lost her. But I don't think he ever had it in him to kill her, the reason he went down that path in the first place, as evidenced by his scream when the emperor informed him of her death.

But that whole 2nd half of the scene with him and Anakin I thought was done poorly, at least on my first viewing. I'll have to pay special attention to it when I go back for subsequent viewings.

Until she muttered the words "I know there's good in him", I honestly thought she believed that Anakin was dead. Which, IMO, would have made her death not only very believable, but much better than simply being killed by a choke-hold.

IMO her dying because Anakins decisions broke her heart make Anakins decisions all that more painful. Had he simply killed her himself, It could have been too easily regarded as the dark side completely corrupting him, rather than laying blame at his decision for venturing in the dark side to begin with. I liked her dying when she was physically fine. But I think those last lines were out of place.

 

I pointed this out elsewhere, but if we are to believe Anakin did in fact kill her--than Palpatines ultimate seduction/evil doesnt come across. The fact taht he uses PAdmes death to make Anakin BELIVE he HAS killed her is the important part here...

I believe that it is at that moment that Ankains turn to the darkside is complete...

 

No, I think it is important. It absolves Anakin of her murder.

I agree 1,000,000%. We were meant to know that Anakin did not kill her. That was the reason for saying she was healthy.

Padmé has been such a strong character in the PT. I know that a lot of people have talked about a "weakening" of Padmé's character in ROTS. I disagree. I believe she matured past anything we had previously seen in her. She is now becoming a mother. Her priorities have shifted, and what used to be important to her no longer is. She wants to take care of her child. This is her main concern throughout the film (even over anything having to do with Anakin).

This also poses the major problem that I have with her death. Why would she lose the will to live? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I know she loved and lost Anakin, but she has two children to take care of. She's perfectly healthy. Why, WHY, would she give up on them? It completely goes against anything that has ever been in her character.

She should have just died with complications in childbirth...not because of Anakin, and certainly not because of a lack of a will to live.

 

Why, WHY, would she give up on them? It completely goes against anything that has ever been in her character.

Because of what I described elsewhere: That she was symbiotically attached with Anakin to some degree.

 

Tell you what, try to:
1)See your new spouse every several weeks if not months.
2)Be a Senator for an entire planet
3)Worry that your spouse could die at any moment in the Clone War
4)Feel that the very ideal you fought for your whole life, democracy, is letting you down
5)Wonder when the war will be over, if ever
6)Find out the protectors of the galaxy and your friends, the Jedi knights/masters/younglings, are being killed.
7)Realize a man you began your political career with and a mentor, Palpatine, is dark lord of the sith, the most terrible of all evil.
8)Find out the love of your life has joined forces with Palpatine.
9)Understand why your good friend Obi-Wan must kill your husband.
10)Eventually have your husband, your partner in life, turn on you and try to kill you.

AND go through all this while being pregnant!
Yeah, she should have been able to handle all that with no problem...no way. I understand her situation completely. She was overwhelmed, no doubt about it. Even being the mother of her newborn children, it was practically impossible to expect her to live. Notice that all but one of my suggestions are related to emotional stress. I still consider her a very strong individual, but she wasn't, as she told Anakin, "all powerful" referring to him.

I like the "giving her life for Anakin's" concept. Adds to the romantic mythicism.

 

Padme's death, losing her will to live, I did take it as she had this connection with Anakin. That plot point never really bothered me at all. If I recall, some on here hoped we would actually see her death happen on-screen and George did do that. I actually like her dying of a broken spirit than simply from childbirth.

Hmm, now that I think about it, how interesting is it that she says Anakin's going down a path she cannot follow. Yes, of course on the surface it's the good path versus the dark path, but in hindsight it's also significant in that Padme does die so she follow a path that Anakin tried to prevent but couldn't--death.

Oh, I thought of something else. Once she has the twins, she loses that last little "good" connection with Anakin. It's just too much for her to go through, all of her dreams and ideals were crushed. She wasn't going to be raising the twins on Naboo, overlooking the lake. The twins take the torch of Padme's wishes of the Rebellion against the Empire.

Ponder this more, I will.

 

Yes, well regardless of whatever "connections" Padmé did or did not have with Anakin, I still cannot easily swallow her having no will to live when she has just given birth to her two children.

Maybe it's the motherly instincts in me, I don't know. But, when Obi-Wan is sitting there, holding her child, and she's not even concerned with it, only to say something about Anakin and die...bah.

 

Hey she smiled at Luke and touched his cheek.. it was Leia that she didn't give a crap about