Full Series Should Mace Windu return?

Not correct,

Spoiler

Ventress in DD and lightning.

He got lethal lightning which we know the Sith can change the lethality of their lightning at will. Best to move on and not grasp at straws just to see a very mutilated character be brought back. By some miracle of Mace surviving, he'd be a vegetable, complete brain and body body damage. The only way I can sorta see Filoni or someone bringing Windu back as returning would be if his shattered brain was kept plugged into a droid, or was a darksider the entire time during TCW and somehow subconsciously his fall into the darkside unwittingly kept him alive - if thats the case it would explain his moronic actions in TCW but I would just want to see him deader then. However, surivals should be limited only to Maul, Vader and Sidious as those three are extremely powerful darksiders with indomitable wills and appetites. Yoda apparently never bothered to train the entire Jedi Council in Jinn's way, so either he did not entirely trust his own council or never got around to it remains unknown. So I don't see Mace Windi as a Ghost. But somehow Anakin learned it, but if Yoda was chosen so its unclear why Jinn would take it upon himself to train Anakin yet again as he's certainly around watching events that presents another problem.

 

There's no evidence that he'd be a vegetable or mutilated (other than the obvious missing hand). I have not read that book, so that slipped under my radar, but to assert that Mace was dead is no different than asserting Maul being dead (even less so!) or Echo, or Trench.

There are minimal "straws" to be grasped.

He gets shocked, Force pushed out a window. Survives. There's no complicated explanation necessary, if the powers that be were to decide to bring him back. Maul and Echo need drawn out explanations. And frankly, Maul's explanation sucked and I felt kind of retroactively makes Palpatine's dialogue in ROTS awkward when he says only one has the power to cheat death (Plagueis), yet now there's this other high profile survivor that Anakin should have fully known about.

That we see his skeleton is a nod to Vader in ROTJ (who did not die right away and whose circuits were fried). Why would we think that Vader, who was in the process of betraying Palpatine with intent to kill AND half cyborg would get LESS lethal of a dose of lightning than Mace, who Palpatine could kill at his leisure? If the argument is that Mace was dead before being thrown, vs. Vader who survived for quite a long time afterward, and possibly could have survived had it not been for obvious issues with his mechanical systems, this would imply that Palpatine was using a more lethal voltage vs. an undefended Mace than the guy that's going to kill him(?)

If Filoni wants to say that he splattered on the ground. So be it. If they want to say he survived, I'm fine with it, so long as they tread carefully with what they do with the character.

Bringing Mace back would be FAR easier than any other of the "resurrected" characters of TCW.

Plus Luke, Anakin, Savage and Yoda all immediately collapse/are thrown when being hit by lightning. Mace stayed on his feet. I don't know where the notion comes from that Mace somehow got it worse or had to have died. He was resisting it better than anyone else, aside from Vader.

 

No its not "far easier". As I already just told you

Spoiler

Ventress

and Vader both got killed by it as did Windu in ROTS and Luke was about to in ROTJ before Vader stepped in. There is no reason that Sidious would not KILL Windu with a deadly burst, he's not incompetent like that to where he he wouldnt know the difffernce to what he's doing with his own power and after all that anger and shout 'Unlimited power" Windu is not turning into Mace Wondu the wonder, no he's now Windi, as gone with the wind. Torture bolts are intentional. The Sith are different from Jedi, Darksider masters are Maul and Vader are both exceptionally powerful Darksiders and naturally so, Maul being born from a Darkside Mother stooped in ancient and otherworldly darkside bloodline of the Nightsisters complete with all dark arts, knowledge and wisdom while Anakin born through the Force with his own pedigree exceptionalism that he always displayed cause he was "the chosen one" with the high midiclorian count. . And the same is true for Mother Talzin as she was a Darkside master of her own craft and religion. The evidence IS that he's deader than dead, and well he's dead. If he emerged from that "alive", he won't have all his faculties and his body won't be intact, in fact he even lost his lower arm by way of Anakin before he went out the window and had his brain fried - if you really think he can come back to his senses after that kinda trauma while being Force pushed and flung into buildings and traffic and falling down who knows how many stories - good luck with that .

 

Umm...you can die from shock you know (both kinds). What about cracking his skull when he hit the ground in shock from getting shocked? https://sciencebasedlife.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/how-much-voltage-can-you-take-on-before-you-die/
There would be a complicated explanation necessary if the decided to bring him back.

 

Logically, if they wanted to bring him back they COULD do it pretty easily. He survived, got some mega amazing GFFA medical treatment, now here he is alive and well. But to paraphrase a certain fictional chaotician... you shouldn't get so invested in whether you could do something that you don't think about whether you SHOULD. And for me, there is absolutely nothing to be gained at all from bringing Mace back. Nothing whatsoever. He adds nothing necessary to any plot. There's not really anything interesting to do with his own character. If he came back, all he would add is problems. How do you involve such a powerful character without derailing the plot? How do you add a Grand Master of the Jedi, capable of fighting Sidious himself to a standstill, and not have him take over? And if you're NOT going to have him take over at all, or influence anything... then why bother bringing him back in the first place? And once you've done whatever you're going to do with him... then what? Kill him, again? Boring. Have YET ANOTHER Jedi Master hiding on some backwater dump planet? Seen it before. Give him some really important mission, that conveniently doesn't appear to be important enough to influence anything in the OT years? Yeah, great. SO worth it.

Mace's death was the single most important thing the character contributed to the whole saga. Leave him dead.

 

No. Really is isn't.. I don't know how to explain this any more simply.

Luke gets shocked for a long time. Survives. Recovers almost immediately once barrage stops.

Anakin gets thrown against a solid wall by lightning and survives. Recovers relatively quickly.

Yoda gets thrown across a room with enough Force that you'd expect him to smash his head and back on the wall with lethal Force. Survives. Yoda gets thrown off an incredibly high podium, smashes his body onto a solid floor. Survives no worse for the wear. Nobody asks how he managed to not shatter his back, smash his skull, etc.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Real world physics, etc. don't apply. It's a movie with super powered beings.

I believe there were multiple occasions in which the Jedi fell from incredibly high positions in TCW and survived (and weren't even injured). I believe this happened in the Geonosis arc as well as in the Season 1 arc with the traitorous R2 unit (I don't remember the name of the episode). We saw Anakin fall from a lethal height in AOTC willingly.

Incorrect assumption #1 is that we're assuming the Jedi are just as fragile as a real world human being, when they've repeatedly shown that they are not.

Incorrect assumption #2 that Force lightning = electricity. While it may or may not have properties of electricity, nobody that gets hit by electricity behaves in a way that you would expect them to, if they were hit by a powerful electrical current. There would be massive burns, they would be immobile, hair would stand on end, their muscles would contract, etc. This is a supernatural power.

That we see Mace's skeleton was a nod to ROTJ and whether anything can be inferred from it other than Rob Coleman thinking it was neat is up for debate. Despite Vader taking such a barrage, he survived for quite a long time before dying. The idea that Mace was dead or "vegetative" has no basis, when we see what happens to Vader, who was entirely lucid after taking a heavy barrage.

Since Palpatine and Mace are in a tug of war, you would think that the barrage that hits Mace is exactly as potent as the barrage reflected upon Palpatine. Palpatine gets up almost immediately from that barrage, as if nothing happened. Said barrage could have even been enough to have melted his face (depending on whether it being an injury or not has been put to rest by the story group), but still as far as mobility and cognitive function, he's fine.

The total Force lightning kill count across the entire saga against a Force user is a whopping.... one.

Should the Story group decide to rationalize Mace's survival, it would be incredibly easy to establish that he recovers after being thrown from the window, and either manages to catch something on the way down, or even uses the Force to cushion his landing.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C (I can't find the non-music video version of this clip, or the landing, but you get the picture).

Meanwhile Maul survives getting cut in half. Trench is on an exploding ship. Gregor detonates the entire site in a last stand. Echo gets left for dead on a CIS controlled prison. All survive. Each of those is a million times harder for me to swallow than Mace, who requires no complicated explanation, since every factor that would be required for his survival is something we've seen before.

E.G. the aforementioned instances of Jedi falling from great heights. And the fast recovery times from Force lightning

Exhibit D

Exhibit E

Exhibit F

Even if he were to fall from the highest point (which he doesn't), it's not like the fall is so much drastically different than what Anakin manages to survive (uninjured).



There's little explanation necessary other than to say "yeah, he survived a fall just like many Jedi before him, and he survived getting hit by lightning, like just about everyone has."

 

Which doesn't really answer the question of what Mace would actually DO if/when he were to return. Okay, so he survived the zapping and the falling and the hand chopping. It's a bit improbable but certainly not inconceivable. And then... what? We're still left with a character whose returned from the dead without any relevance, purpose or significance to the current plot.

 

Welcome to "Sci"-Fi.

 

I feel like he could come back, but I don't want him to. I really hate his character more and more after every new thing he appears in.

 

There are really only two reasons I would be interested in seeing him again. But not necessarily as late in the timeline as Rebels; perhaps a one shot comic or something.

The first being that he would be interesting to contrast with Yoda later on. Yoda is in exile watching Luke from afar. Mace always struck me as stricter individual. I don't think he'd go into exile for very long. I think he'd be more of a take the Sith on militarily kind of guy.

The other reason is again just because Mace's death inaugurated Anakin's turn. The fear and guilt of betraying Mace. While on the other hand, Mace didn't trust Anakin. Putting Anakin near Palpatine was what created a new Sith. Mace, as it stands, didn't live to witness that.

I would imagine he would be extremely ashamed and feel like his fears were validated, if he lives to see it. Like Yoda and Obi-Wan were fools, and that if they had listened to him, they would all be alive (as far as he'd know, they could have been killed already).

With Maul, I have not seen one person say he needed to come back, or that they love the manner in which they brought him back (I actually remember Spider-Gollum-Maul being ridiculed). But once Maul was reestablished, he became a favorite to a lot of people, especially with the Mandalore stuff and Obi-Wan.

With Mace, I do think there is the potential to do interesting stuff with him, should he be "resurrected," and that the story of his survival could in itself be interesting and easily accepted than Maul's.

E.G. He gets thrown out the window. Is stunned for a bit, comes around mid fall, slows his fall enough with the Force to survive, but not enough to avoid shattering his arm. He passes out.

Wakes up in whatever passes for an ambulance. Hears an announcement on a communicator that there is a Jedi coup and that the Jedi Temple is a no fly zone. One of his paramedics hears the news and tries to sedate him before Mace can react (also creates an opportunity to explore the common man buying into Palpatines lies and being afraid of Jedi.

Mace mind tricks them into letting him go and making record that he was found dead.

He flees. Wandering Coruscant. He gets taken in and hidden Anne Frank-like. Rumors circulate that this person is hiding a Jedi, and while Mace stays hidden, his rescuer is executed, etc.

 

I loved the way Maul came back. And Spider-Maul was a unique design that was only in the show for about 20 minutes at most.

 

His importance/significance is whatever they want it to be. There isn't some natural flow to the story dictating what should and should not happen, or who should or should not appear.

I don't think there was any reason Maul should have been brought back. In fact it just kind of seemed like it began as little more than Lucas wanting Savage to be a stand in for Maul before finally just saying bring Maul back. Filoni even said that at the time they finished the Witches arc and Maul appeared in the crystal ball, that he did not know what the plan was. But that panned out well.

The only thing you can really count on is a character's personality. You can put a character in a new situation and can kind of deduce how they would react based on their personality. You take Mace and put him in a post-Order 66 galaxy, and I think that would make for plenty of interesting opportunities. Not the least of which would be a Vader/Mace fight. Anakin felt the Jedi didn't trust him. Mace outright says he doesn't trust Anakin.

Mace sensed a plot to destroy the Jedi, he was onto the Chancellor, he doubted the Chosen One prophecy and didn't gawk over Anakin, he didn't trust putting Anakin near the Chancellor, he wanted to remove Palpatine from office forcibly if necessary, regardless of the Senate.

So you have the Jedi that was pretty much the epitome of what sold Anakin on the idea that the Jedi were traitors that didn't trust Anakin. But that very same Jedi is pretty much the one who saw through Anakin. Who predicted a lot of what was going to happen, other than being betrayed by Anakin shortly after having given Anakin his trust.

Put those two characters in a room together post-ROTS and I think that in itself would justify bringing Mace back, more so than having Maul kill Satine and conquering Mandalore ever justified his resurrection.

You've got Mace who probably feels like he failed. That he had Palpatine at his mercy, but had he not made the mistake of trusting Anakin, that the Jedi would have been saved. So I'm sure he'd have a huge sense of this being his responsibility. He was the one whose gut instinct told him the Jedi were going to get hosed and not to trust Anakin, but he trusted Anakin to do the right thing, and Anakin betrayed him.

And now you have Vader who is stronger than he was before, and no longer an emotional, whiny kid, who I'm sure would get a certain satisfaction from killing Mace.

As for what Mace would have been doing? It would make sense for him to be involved in a Rebel cell of some sort, perhaps covertly. He has no knowledge of the Skywalker kids, and even if he did, there's probably no way in hell he'd think it wise to train them. If he didn't trust Anakin near Palpatine, there's probably no way he'd trust Luke near Vader.

I think he'd be the exact opposite of Yoda and Anakin. Rather than pinning his hopes on a couple of kids and waiting for them to grow up. I'd think he'd be more like Kota from TFU and be more of a militant Jedi.

I think there is plenty that can be done with that. The only thing that would need to happen is that of course he'd need to die, and I really would think that it makes more sense for that confrontation to be with Vader, not Palpatine.

 

So here we have a Mace who felt he failed, and now here he is back from the grave to confront his greatest failure, the man he allowed to destroy the Jedi Order and bring down the Republic. And Mace is absolutely right to feel that way - he DID fail. A Sith Lord orchestrated the entire scheme from right beneath his nose. Good work, Mace! And there is at least an argument to be made that Mace's acting like kind of a jerk to Anakin really probably didn't help with that whole anger-leads-to-suffering thing the Sith have going. If you're going to criticise the dude pretty relentlessly then please don't act all surprised when that someone - someone you know full well by now has rather too much pride and several anger management issues - might just get kind of resentful.

Which is all very interesting and all but ultimately rather pointless because if Mace ever gets a chance to confront the Sith again and atone for his failure... he's going to lose. He has to. He'll fail all over again. ONLY Luke could save Vader, because only Luke could reach Anakin's love deep within him. And in a straight up fight? Yeah, Mace loses that too. We've seen what happens to Vader and it's not death by bad mother******. Canonically, Vader walks away from any fight, and realistically, he's NOT going to willingly let Mace live if he wins. If Mace somehow manages to bypass Vader and get to Sidious... he still loses.

Mace CAN'T do anything. That's the whole point. His death was the point the Dark Side won, for real. He was the last chance the Republic had, and he lost, and he died. There is literally nothing to add to his character or his story beyond that point. If we go back and see more awesome Maceness in the Clone War period, fantastic. If Stover adds another Shatterpoint to the new canon, I will be cheering. But he's dead and bringing him back will never be anything but a terrible, terrible idea.

 

I would have no interest in seeing Mace get to Palpatine again. I don't even think that fight should have happened to begin with.

Anakin going from "oh no I betrayed the Jedi! What have I done?!" to "I'll serve the Sith" to "Yeah, I'll kill all the people I've served with for the past 13 years" in the span of a couple minutes was incredibly jarring. The original idea of Anakin having already fallen before that fight took place would have made more sense, IMO. Though realistically all the mistrust on both sides I felt could have culminated into a fight between the two of them, and I feel like it was a missed opportunity that there wasn't a greater climax to their mistrust. Anakin's betrayal wasn't even fueled by dislike or mistrust, it was fueled by Padme and his belief that Palpatine had to be kept alive. Anakin even shows remorse immediately after. That Palpatine killed Mace and Anakin's immediate behavioral shifts from regret to reluctant service to the Sith to believing whatever Palpatine tells him was just stupid.

It would have been better IMO if Mace found out Palpatine was a Sith before Anakin. He went to confront Palpatine with Anakin already in the office. Anakin didn't trust Mace and saw the whole thing as a Jedi coup. Anakin defends Palpatine and kills Mace, and begins to succumb to the Dark Side. And THEN Palpatine confirms that Mace was right and that he can train Anakin how to harness this new found power. Anakin going through this random range of emotions and coming out the other side insane just seemed like Lucas had a bunch of ideas on how things should go down and didn't commit to one.

As far as the pointlessness of it. TCW and Rebels in their entirety were "pointless." The inevitable confrontation between Vader and Ahsoka will be pointless. At best it will kill off Ahsoka and bookend her fate, but her very introduction was pointless and had no impact on ROTS in any way. A lot of people love her, that's fine. But as far as the "point" or "need" of her character, there wasn't much of one. It was something Lucas thought would be fun and that there was nothing saying he could not do. So he creates this character. Alot of people hated her at first. Now she's like this figure that a lot of people were excited to see in Rebels.

Had I suggested back in 2008 that my hope was to see Maul get brought back, or that Maul had a brother, or that Maul should conquer Mandalore, I'm sure every person here would look at that like fan fiction of the laziest sort, but now Maul being back seems like one of the high points of the show, with some people hoping Maul gets an anthology film.

If you don't want to see Mace again, I'm not going to try to change someone's opinion, you're entitled to one. But when it comes to what "should" happen or the "point" or "purpose" of it, there's none. But there's no point to any of it. They're just fun stories.

 

Fair point, but Mace DID have a point to the plot - he was the warrior leader to Yoda's sage mentor of the Jedi, it was their failure that lead to the Sith's victory. He was the one person who could have stopped Sidious, but failed (albeit due to Anakin's interference arguably. But still a failure for all that.) Once that has happened, he's achieved his plot purpose and the rest of it is just tacking on another predestined failure.

Maul did not originally have any such purpose or point - he was a walking talking plot device to remove Qui-Gonn and for Obi-Wan to beat to prove his skill. All of the Mandalore business and his personal vendetta with Kenobi was tacked on after the event, it was a brand new story about Maul and what his new purpose was going to be. Ahsoka was pretty much created so we could have a protagonist with actual tension given we DIDN'T know her eventual fate. She legitimately could have died, or fallen, or any other number of fates. She also gave us a fresh perspective on familiar characters.

I am not saying that people are wrong to enjoy both of them, nor indeed enjoying Mace's story such as it was. But unlike Maul and Ahsoka his story, plot relevance and character development all lead up to his failure and his death. His ultimate failure was the point of his existence. Having thus failed, he then became pointless to the story overall IMO. Like I say, I am all for more Mace stories and adventures. But they should be set prior to his death, not after it.

 

For some reason, even though Samuel L Jackson is awesome, Mace Windu was never one of my favorite characters. I always tried to like him and he had a cool lightsaber and all but I just always found him a bit dull. I actually liked Plo Koon and Kit Fisto a lot more and thought they should have gotten some of the screen time Windu had..

 

I concur with these sentiments to a t. Also, Rebels should clear up Darth Maul's fate once and for all. He's just hanging in the air at this point.

 

Mace Windu doesn't deserve to come back after his attitude in Dark Desciple

 

Vader was killed by Force lightning because it shorted out his life support suit. Note the steady, rhythmic machine breath is gone after he throws Palps down the shaft, replaced by this labored, death-rattle breathing which is his own failing body doing its best to breathe.

Other than that, force-lightning tends to be nearly always non-lethal.

As opposed to say, natural lightning...



Which tends to be very lethal. About a third of those struck by lightning actually die from it, and those who die die instantly, they don't writhe around for five minutes first.

Anyway, all in all, Mace could totally have survived.

If he did survive, his final death should come at the hands of Boba Fett.

 

Enough people have been resurrected already (Boba Fett, Maul,etc.)

 

One in three people die instantly from being struck by lightning.
People that have been struck by lighting in Star Wars: Yoda, Obi Wan, Anakin, Luke, and Mace Windu.
The two out of six people: Anakin and Mace Windu.

 

Technically, Boba is still dead with EU being non canon.

 

Yeah, but literally nothing post-ROTJ has come out in the new continuity yet. You really think he'll stay dead once it does?

 

Considering how overrated he is now, I wouldn't be surprised if they brought him back.

 

Neither of which died directly from it.

Anyways, I don't think it would surprise anyone that a planet creating lightning (maybe it is a planet manifestation of the dark side!!!! ) can create a much more powerful charge than a relatively puny biological being.