Should Palpatine have been in some kind of pain after his face was disfigured by his lightning?

Yeah it wasn't the actual lightning melting his face, nothing of the sort:

Force Lightning is a dangerous force technique because not only does it damage the receiver, but also the producer. The damage it causes is not simple electrocution, it also drains life.

Sidious was not only using a lot of it very intensly (too intense a usage of the force can cause rapid aging), but he was also getting hit by it.

So he was getting all the damage from producing and receiving the lightning, which caused him to "age rapidly" or degrade or whatever you want to call the process of him turning Butt Ugly.

 

I think it was because he was doped up on PCP and couldn't feel
a thing.

 

OK, first off, screw the novel.

It's his true appearance; the Palpatine visage is a mask or "carapace".
Who agrees with me? The actor who played the character, and the producer of the trilogy. I don't really care what GL says about it. I'm not following this series to learn how to be a better lemming.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. GL is often wrong. This was demonstrated in a 2005 interview... ahh, the truth, painful it is!
The problem seems to be that some people can never admit a mistake.

I wonder, what does the "Lucas is always right by definition" crowd think about the Han-Greedo scene in ANH? Here's a dose of the truth: HAN SHOT FIRST. Not exactly Lucas' current position on the matter, now is it? I guess if Lucas came out with a press release stating that Darth Maul was R2D2's fairy godmother you'd all believe that too?

Apply the same line of reasoning to the Mace vs. Palpatine scene. Eureka!!!

And Vader didn't disappear, either.

 

Heck with his face pain. Watch the movie again and youll notice lightning hitting his crotch. Now, that REALLY has to hurt.

 

Watch Palpatine right after the first lightning attack ends. He's in considerable pain. As someone said, though, he's full of adrenaline. Also, when you're hurt really badly, or in a state of shock, you don't scream from pain. That's why Mace's screaming is a bit unrealistic. As is Luke's, when his hand is cut off. In reality, he wouldn't react the way he does.





Shock - it numbs
/Flames

 

i think that Palpatine would be feeling pain, but since he's a Sith Lord very much into the dark side, i'm sure he can mask his pain pretty well.

 

And why doesn't he get plastic surgery? I mean, that's obviously available in the Star Wars universe.

 

If Palpatine was not actually disfigured and deformed by his own lightning, and this was his actual face, then after some time he should have been able to use the dark side of the Force to restore his identity as Palpatine to some degree. Or maybe he could have gotten into a bacta tank and claimed it restored his face though it actually was his use of the Force.

But I guess it worked better for the effect if he remained this way as a continual sign of the supposed rebellion of the Jedi and what they did to him in their supposed attack upon him.

Lastly, I have to admit, I somewhat agree with Sauron_18's assessment on what transpired with Palpatine, that his use of and receiving of his own lightning back at him caused him to age rapidly. But I also believe it did cause a disfiguring of his face that was similiar if one's face was on fire. I still say due to what transpires, he should have been some kind of pain. But maybe a mixture of the dark side and adrenalin minimized any real pain he should have felt.

Darth Sin!

 

In my last post, you might replace "wrong" with "wrongly interpreted".
"What I told you was true... from a certain point of view." That is an example of an author speaking through a character. It's all true from a certain point of view. As far as the issue of canon is concerned, my version is arbitrary and no better than anyone else's. If something in the EU appeals to me, then I try to believe in it. So, to each his [or her] own.

A few points:

1) The yellow DS eyes. If this effect, like the others, is supposed to be from the lightning ( or the presumed life-draining effect ), how are we to explain the occurrence of similar DS eye effects in characters ( Maul, Anakin )presumably not subjected to a Force lightning loop?
2) Also consider the original intent of Palpatine's ( similar ) appearance in ROTJ. I don't think the Emperor's makeup effects in Jedi were meant to portray somebody that had been hit by the Emperor's lightning. Rather, I would guess that his appearance was meant to have been due to the dark side. If so, during what time frame did this degradation occur? I'm just saying that I don't think it happened all at once in ROTS. It probably had been progressing since before TPM. None of the other uses of Force lightning in the saga show noticeable immediate ( on the spot ) aging/deterioration.

 

And why doesn't he get plastic surgery? I mean, that's obviously available in the Star Wars universe.



Heh, a facelift and some botox would have him looking like Cary Grant in no time.

 

This part I would agree with. When ROTJ was filmed Lucas probably didn't plan for his disfigurement.

I disagree with your previous post about Palpatine's appearance being a facade and that his true id is now displayed. It's evident from film, not the novel as a source, that the lightning disfigured his face. I don't care what Ian Mc has stated, we have to take Lucas's word as a more credable source, even though his credability can often be questioned. His "true face" is a revelation of a matter of speaking of the twisted evil inside Palpatine that is now transparent.

 

And why does Palps have ORANGE skin during the senate office hologram scene with Anakin and the beginning of his fight with Yoda? He's pastey white again in the senate pod battle scenes. Did Lucas, McDiarmid, the makeup people, and the rest of production just not notice?

Also, why does his lightning not bounce off Yoda's lightsabre? If all he has to do is hit the hilt his barbequing himself fighting Mace was pretty stupid.

 

to the first part i need to watch it again, i'm inclined to say it's the lighting at the the time but i'll check it and see.

the second part is because of the way the characters were to be portrayed.

The simple fact is Mace is intended to be shown as more of a match for sidious than Yoda.

Yoda is the wisest of the Jedi Masters and before Anakin he was the most powerful apparently.

However Yoda is also geriatric, an argument used to no end against Dooku that magically doesn't apply to Yoda in some people's minds. /boggle

I won't make the excuse that Mace was better at catching lightning on his saber or that he used the force to direct it at his saber, i don't believe that.

It is possible that Sidious can aim his lightning that well and caught Yoda by suprise but again i don't buy it.

what i do believe is that you discovered a rather contrived plot/story point that is set up to show what i tried to illustrate above.

we are supposed to walk away with the impression that Mace beat Sidious and Anakin saved him. Yoda on the other hand gave it his best shot and nearly won, but was not quite able to defeat Sidious. I take nothing away from Yoda, 300 years ago he'd have won that fight, at this stage of his life, however barely he wasn't able to do it and didn't believe he would ever win in a rematch.

 

I do have to say that I don't really like all of Lucas's interviews trying to explain consequences of scenes that he may not have thought about beforehand. His explanations do change from time to time and he probably tries to shoehorn them in with what he knows about the EU. You made great movies George. They are art. People enjoy art because it often leaves the viewer to interpret it for him/herself. Art can mean one thing to the artist and another thing to the critic. If GL says something, you don't have to believe it and can even try to disprove it in the eyes of other critics. I think most Star Wars fans have their own (SLIGHTLY) different few of the Star Wars Universe. That is what makes it fun.

Carnage

 

The "orange skin" in the Senate scene is reflected light from the red saber. I don't know what you mean about the hologram; I thought it was all-blue, not color.

Certainly he was "disfigured" by the lightning. He was wearing a visage created by use of the dark side. The lightning burned this away. It's all true from "a certain point of view".
What I mean is that interviewers put GL on the spot sometimes and he's forced ( no pun intended ) to offer an opinion on something. Sometimes, what is said can be interpreted in different ways, and it might seem to be wrong, but even then it has a kernel of truth.

Consider the thorny issue of Anakin being weaker in the Force because of Mustafar. In a 2005 interview, GL states, "The Force is in the breath." Going back to the OT, at first it seems hard to find justification for this. However, the Force is not psionics. It is not the power of the Second Foundation ( even though Second Foundation has characters named "Han" and "Bail", but that's another story ). If the Force were purely based on mental strength, the Jedi would all be B'omarr monks with indestructible cyborg bodies. They're not.
The basis for "the Force is in the breath" seems to be "you must feel the Force flowing through you." As GL and Greg Bear seem to agree, the Force is like chi ( with a hint of Tao ). When your breathing is controlled by an artificial lung, your chi is messed up. On the other hand, access to the "unlimited power" of the dark side can be used to get past this limitation...


"Palpatine's disfigurements were really nothing new" - Luceno, Dark Lord

 

Speaking of Palpatine's features, I just saw the very beginning of ROTJ again, and I noticed something.... Bib Fortuna has head-bumps much like Palpatine in that film ( and unlike Twi'leks seen later in the series ).

Could Palpatine be a hybrid Twi'lek???

 

The entire idea of Sidious being disfigured by lightning sucks.

 

When did Lucas ever address Palpatine's disfigurement?

The way I see it:

Judging from the films the lightning NEVER disfigures anyone else it hits. Therefore it is not the lightning itself that caused the deformation.

Also, the "disfigurement" is accompanied by Sith eyes, a voice change, and a complete personality change.

Again, on the DVD Knoll says it's the exertion (of generating the lightning I assume). Ian says that his face is a mask (metaphorically). The scripts says that his face twists and distorts and his eyes burn yellow as he struggles to intensify the power of the lightning.

In contrast McCallum seemed unsure as to whether it was a mask or injury, there is really no evidence that the Palpatine face was literally a mask and only Pablo seems to support the idea that the lightning disfigured him.

To me all evidence points to Sidious' use of the darkside; finally unleashing all of that darkside power that he kept suppressed during his time as "Palpatine" deformed him. That scene was a strong parallel to the end of ROTJ. To have Palpatine become disfigured by the lightning and Luke not to is a very conspicuous discrepancy IF it was the lightning that did it. The lightning did not disfigure him IMO, nor was his mask a literal one. The "mask" was his true human face which is later disfigured to match the evil within as the darkside flows through his body to power the lightning.

 

My point exactly.
Let's not forget that SW has ALWAYS, for some reason, been subject to poorly-thought-out opinions like "He was disfigured by the lightning." Way back in the good old days of '77-'78, some people said that the stormtroopers were robots, ignoring the scene where Han and Luke put on stormtrooper armor.
A lot of people saw the TPM trailer circa 1999 and decided that the little kid was Luke, which conflicts with the implicit idea that Luke had a pretty uneventful life prior to ANH. Which brings me to my next point...

The real problem with modern-day SW doesn't have anything to do with Sith lightning. It's this Michael Jackson-like obsession with stories centered around small children. At some point Skywalker Ranch turned into Neverland Ranch. First the Ewok Adventure, then TPM, and now I hear rumors that a story arc in the TV series will be about "young Luke Skywalker". This is the latest colossally bad idea in SW. At least in Sith the munchkins got chopped up ( off screen ).
There were no little kids in the OT ( with the exception of Warwick but he was in costume ).
I just really don't understand what's going through Lucas' mind. His kids are grown; he should be past the phase where it's all about the little kids. Little kids are not the grownups their parents think they are. And people without kids don't exactly jump for joy when they come seeking SF and get sickly-sweet stories about precocious brats.

The only backstory I tend to accept for Luke is that comic where Biggs got poisoned in a Tusken attack and they had to do the Beggars' Canyon run to get him medical aid in time. That's about it. Other than that his story should have been pretty boring, hence his desire to enter the Academy and get off the planet.

 

There is one more thing:

"I can't hold it." - Palpatine

What is he talking about here, if his appearance was caused by the lightning?

Unlike my other evidence, the above quote is not the personal opinion of Ian McDiarmid. It is a line of dialogue from the completed film. That makes it canon. Therefore its logical implications are also canon.

 

Wasn't he just saying that to get Anakin to believe him?

 

Yes, he was. However, that doesn't change the point too much. It's still curious as to why he'd pretend to be exhausting his strength if the lightning was melting his face away. Screaming about the pain or acting like he was dying would probably have been the more obvious choice if that were the case.

 

If he wanted Anakin to believe him, wouldn't he want Anakin to think the lightning was actually killing him? Instead of the idea that he "couldn't hold it", whatever "it" is?

Also, this brings up another point. People seem to assume Palpatine has been lying to Anakin all along.

Except he hasn't.

There's a small amount of evidence in the PT that Jedi can sense lies. I think this plot point may have been toned down because it's an obvious connection to the Dune series. In any event, if one really pays attention to the things Palp says in ROTS, he isn't lying.

Arawn-Fenn sighs.

 

Here is the question. Was it the deflection of his lightning from Mace's saber that deformed and disfigured/melted his face, or was it the extreme exertion of dark side power that caused his face to deform?

If it was from the deflection, then he should have been hurt and in some amount of real pain. If it was from exertion of dark side power, then maybe this amount of power usage actually drained his body physically that it even deformed his face.

And the "it" he could not hold was probably that he could not continue to hold exerting that concentrated amount of power without it weakening him, and then almost killing him.

One thing I do take note of is that in Palpy's battle with Yoda, we see Yoda begin to deflect his lightning back at him and we see Palpy show that he is experiencing some pain before they repel one another.

This makes me somewhat believe that in like manner to Yoda's deflection of the Sith lightning back at him and hurting him, that Mace's deflection of it with his saber did actually hurt Palpy, and this deflection really did hurt him and that his own lightning disfigured his face.

Darth Sin!

 

interesting point Sin, i've never been a believer that the lightning deformed him but you've got me thinking about it now.

i think everyone would agree that this was not done nearly as well as it could have been, this is a point that is more vague than it should be.