Should Yoda have used the dark side to defeat Sidious?

Consider this question something of a moral one. To get to it, it's necessary to ask if Yoda was powerful enough to defeat Sidious if he had delved into the dark side and "returned fire" in the form of lightning (or maybe something even more deadly that we've never seen). I believe he was more than capable of doing that, and in my mind, Sidious was essentially "maxed out" while Yoda was at the ceiling of light side abilities, but he was doing all that without tapping into the more aggressive and potentially stronger dark side abilities.

So, if you believe Yoda could have upped the wattage (so to speak) and killed Sidious by using the dark side, should he have? I don't for a moment buy that if he'd done so, he would somehow have become just like Sidious. It takes a lot more than just using the dark side (even with such power) to become like Sidious. It's more like a lifetime of dark side study and use that does it. So, that's out in my mind. That said, might he have sacrificed himself in the process of using the dark side? If not his life, then maybe his "soul" or character. He would never again be the Yoda we knew throughout the saga. At the same time, Sidious would be no more, and the same with immediate evil throughout the galaxy.

So, I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. Please, no preemption by saying that the prophecy "protected" Sidious, or that only the Chosen One could kill him. Just within this framework, I'd like to discuss the ultimate morality question of whether you should sacrifice yourself or what you believe for the greater good.

 

It's as simple as this IMO, two wrongs don't make a right. On top of that, Yoda is so much on the light side that he couldn't even come CLOSE to doing something like that.

 

i doubt Yoda has the ability to tap into the Darkside, it's not in his nature and he knows it would only lead to Darker things.that's my opinion anyway , I really don't know the answer to this .

 

It's a very good question and I almost started this thread yesterday but layed off with all the new ones coming up. It's debatable how much of the dark side powers Yoda knew. I mean, he was able to hold off force lightning with his bare hands. A skill I believe he learned while younger and there were more sith he had to fight. But he actually reversed it on Sids. So he used it for more than defense. He essentially used it against him.

But I think you mean it as more of an anger "flurry" perhaps. In that case I don't think Yoda could muster near the hate and anger than Sids summoned seeing as how Yoda had spent the better part of a millineum rejecting that personality trait while Sids had been revelling in it.

As to whether or not he should have... no

 

Well you definately wont hear that from me.

I dont think the prophecy protects Sidious at all...I think people just misinterpret what the word "prophecy" means.

Mace could have killed Sidious, Yoda could have, ANYBODY who's powerful enough could have....but Anakin will.

That's why he's the chosen one, and that's what the prophecy "foresaw"....it predicted that he would kill Sidious, and that's what he did.

But it doesnt mean that he's the only one capable of doing it.

The way you people talk, Sidious could have slipped and fell out of his office window and simply got up and walked away because "Anakin didnt push him".

But anyway...if Yoda had tapped into the darkside "even once" he would probably be doomed to eventually turn to the darkside.

"once you START DOWN THE DARK PATH, forever will it dominate your destiny"

(see Anakin and the Tusken Slaughter)

 

Oh I don't doubt that Yoda could have dug into the dark side and used that against Palpatine. But I since I am of the belief that only the chosen one can defeat Sidious, it wouldn't have mattered. Actually if Yoda had used the dark side and still lost, I suppose it would have been more tragic. Like he couldn't win even if he cheated. Kinda dishonoring himself to get the victory but losing anyways because of the prophecy.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'delved into the dark side'. I don't think the dark side is a particular power the Jedi can choose to access at a given time or not. Whatever means Yoda uses to defeat Sidious is perfectly acceptable and does not make him evil (As long as he is not harming any innocent life forms in the process). The dark side is more of a way of life than a power.

 

The dark side is more of a way of life than a power.

Yes, Yoda can no easier use the Darkside than Palpatine can use the lightside. It's not in eithers nature.

 

. I don't think the dark side is a particular power the Jedi can choose to access at a given time or not.

I disagree, based on what we saw in ROTJ from Luke. He skated mightly close to the line, if he didn't actually go over it.

It's not in eithers nature.

Not sure what difference that makes. In real life, people sometimes do things that are completely out of character or are otherwise seemingly not in their "nature". Don't see why that's not true in Star Wars as well, given what we saw from Luke and even Vader at the end of ROTJ.

 

Had Yoda tapped into the darkside, Sidious would've been a goner, Dooku even admits that in DR.

 

I don't think the dark side is a particular power the Jedi can choose to access at a given time or not.

I believe it is. Otherwise, why would they spend so much time training padawas to stay away from it.

"Quicker, easier the dark side is". All he had to do during the fight was remember all the jedi killed that day along with close friends and given into that hate. He would've been tapping in then IMO and it is possible the reults could have been different

 

yes but your ignoring the fact that Yoda has been light side advicate for most if not all his 900 year life. Luke, however, was much like Anakin who did not have a proper training in the jedi arts, and had used his emotions a lot,"Much anger in him, like his father" And you have to remember that Sidious is the master of the darkside, just because Yoda tries to use the darkside doesn't mean he'll start firing lightning bolts. He knows how to defend them, not to use them.
"A jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack"

 

"Is the Darkside more poweful?"

"No. Quicker and easier, it is"



I think that qoute explains alot. If he had used the darkside then he would be going against everything he knows and believes. And for the fact that he did not use the darkside makes him much stronger in my opinion. Here you have Yoda facing off against Sidious who had taken over the republic and destroyed the Jedi Order killing every Youngling, Master and Knights. Killing his companions and his friends.

After all this, most people would be extremly angry at Sidious and use darkside powers. But he stayed very calm throughout his fight despite everything that has happened. It is possible that he would have won if he used the darkside.....but the cost would be too high. Eveyrthing that he was would be gone. Using evil to defeat evil is not good. And, like Yoda said, the darkside is not more powerful than the lightside. Sidious won the battle.....but Yoda now knows, with possible training of the twins, that the war is far from over.

Yoda would never use the darkside. He represents what the Jedi Order is and what it stands for.

 

He knows how to defend them, not to use them.

So certain are you.

It's clear that Dooku was surprised at Yoda's ability to deflect his lightning in AOTC, and likewise for Sidious in ROTS. I may be mistaken, but I believe the EU has hinted at Yoda's dabbling in the dark side at some point in his life, but more importantly, that he's at least studied it from an objective viewpoint (I know the AOTC novelization explicitly mentions Yoda needing to see into the dark side). To defeat your enemy, you must know and understand it.

Eveyrthing that he was would be gone.

But Sidious would be gone too, and there might not be the Empire we saw in the OT. Evil might not exist the way it did.

 

The EU also says that the emperor has the power to ressurect himself....lets stay on what WE ACTUALLY SEE on film please. Yes Dooku was surpised that Yoda could deflect his lighning, and he did just that, deflect it. Never once showed he could use it.

 

I believe Dooku is surprised because he doesn't think any Jedi could possibly know how to do such a thing ("I've become more powerful than any Jedi... even you"), and yet Yoda still knows how to handle Sith lightning. Yoda's knowledge had to come from somewhere, and it isn't raw ability.

 

I think you guys are a little confused in regards to "dark side powers". The Sith and Jedi (essentially) have the same set of powers available to them. It's the context of there use that defines whether they are dark side or light side. If Yoda does in fact have the ability to shoot lightning, that is not a "dark side power" any more than the "force choke" is exclusively a dark side power.



If Yoda uses the "force choke" power to kill an innocent youngling I'd say that Yoda has fallen to the dark side.


If Yoda uses the "force choke" to defeat a lethal Sith Lord bent on conquering the galaxy, then I'd say Yoda is using the force to DEFEND freedom.

 

Lightening is a power that is used not just to kill but to torture while killing. Jedi do not torture....even their enemies.

Look at the Mace Windu fight. Sidious killed 3 Jedi Masters.....and friends of Mace and not to mention the countless number of Jedi that were killed in the geonosis arena and the clone wars. Yet, while Palpatine was on the ground, Mace only wanted to ARREST Palpatine. After all the Jedi that have been killed, Mace was only going to arrest Palpatine. That shows you what a Jedi truly is. Even to their most evil enemies, they show mercy.

Lightening is a force power that tortures first before killing. If a Jedi goes to kill an enemy....they intend to kill the enemy with little to no torture. As much as Sidious has done to the republic and the Jedi Order, Yoda would never torture him. Yoda would kill Sidious and be done with it. That is one of the things that seperate a Sith and a Jedi.

Sith would torture their enemies as much as possible before killing while Jedi prefere to arrest their enemies and bring them to justice.

And that is why Yoda would not use Lightening. It tortures your enemy before killing your enemy. A Jedi would not torture their enemy....even their most evil enemies. If arrest is not possible, then killing the enemy as fast as possible is the next option. But torture is something a Jedi would not do.

 

Umm... Mace was going to kill him. That's why Anakin intervened.

 

Yeah but that doesnt mean that they CANT do it.

It just means that they WONT do it.

I believe ALL force users can use pretty much the same powers.

 

In spite of my very methodical support for the premise that Sids was THE most powerful Force user ever (see the Yoda vs. Sidious duel v.2 thread), I'm very much open to the idea that even the "Chosen One" didn't have as much of a POTENTIAL to be TMPFUE as compared to Yoda.

Here's from Dark Rendezvous:

At this moment Yoda turned, and Dooku gasped. Whether it was the play of the holomonitors, beaming their views of bleak space and distant battles, or some other trick of the light, Yoda's face was deeply hidden in the shadows, mottled black and blue, so that for one terrible instant he looked exactly like Darth Sidious. Or rather, it was Yoda as he might have been, or could yet become: a Yoda gone rotten, a Yoda whose awesome powers had been utterly unleashed by his connection to the dark side. In a flash Dooku saw how foolish he had been, trying to urge the old Master to the dark side. If Yoda ever turned that way, Sidious himself would be annihilated. The universe had yet to comprehend the kind of evil that a Jedi Knight of nearly nine hundred years could wield.

 

Yes. He was going to kill him because it was the only option after Sidious' lightening. But he was not going to TORTURE him for the things he has done....he was going to kill him and be done with it.

 

Fighting fire with fire only causes more fire. It would've caused Yoda to turn evil and then he would have to be destroyed, to bring balance to the Force. The key to destroying the Sith lies with compassion. Or as mentioned in the novelization, "Love is the answer to darkness."

 

Wow......couldn't have said it better myself. That basiclly sums it up right there.

 

At this moment Yoda turned, and Dooku gasped. Whether it was the play of the holomonitors, beaming their views of bleak space and distant battles, or some other trick of the light, Yoda's face was deeply hidden in the shadows, mottled black and blue, so that for one terrible instant he looked exactly like Darth Sidious. Or rather, it was Yoda as he might have been, or could yet become: a Yoda gone rotten, a Yoda whose awesome powers had been utterly unleashed by his connection to the dark side. In a flash Dooku saw how foolish he had been, trying to urge the old Master to the dark side. If Yoda ever turned that way, Sidious himself would be annihilated. The universe had yet to comprehend the kind of evil that a Jedi Knight of nearly nine hundred years could wield.

i have LOE right in front of me, give me the page and chapter, i don't believe that ever comes up in LOE. ever. seriously.