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Andor Showing Imperial soldiers in a more nuanced way

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by 3sm1r, Oct 13, 2022.

  1. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Two Truths & Lie winner! star 6 VIP - Game Winner

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    Mar 22, 2003
    I think even ANH dealt with this well in some very well written and succinct scenes , take the meeting of the admirals and generals , in that one scene we get various viewpoints : Motti is arrogant and believes in the Death Star, Tagge is clearly a more traditional military man, he respects the rebels and is shocked that the senate has been disbanded . Tarkin is very much the tyrant. And Vader of course has a larger view.
     
  2. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    "Bad" with the standards of empathy. The basis for all morality should be empathy and personal responsibility.

    You know something is bad if you wouldn't want it done to you, if positions were reversed. So, murder is bad because you wouldn't want to be murdered. Rape is bad because you wouldn't want to be raped. Robbery is bad because you wouldn't want to be robbed, etc.

    And personal responsibility is about understanding how your choices and actions affect others. No one makes you do good or bad. It's a choice you make everyday. You are what you do, and why you do it.
     
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  3. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    OK but I don't want to digress from my original point, that is, virtually everyone, if they're human, sooner or later will just say "it is what it is" about some important injustice. You can't fight every single thing that is wrong in the world. With this premise, I can totally imagine being emotionally involved in the story of an Imperial, who is an Imperial because that's what they do, because that's their reality, because it's their job, because they are not perfect, because they don't want to sacrifice their life for some greater good, and I think I can easily sympathize for them even though they are Imperials, sa long as the story manages to show me their human side.
     
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  4. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Yes, there are definitely people who make their decisions based on their options and information. Like if someone has no idea there even is a rebellion in the early days. Or if someone is ignorant of the atrocities being committed by the Empire, they'd make their decisions based on that.

    And some people make their decisions purely on their own self interests.
     
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  5. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    I would rather say that everyone of us is a bit of a combo of those groups you just mentioned. Sometimes we all are ignorant, sometimes we are all powerless, and sometimes we just go for what is most convenient to us. There aren't many heroes in the world, and I don't mind if some SW characters reflects just that, from time to time.
     
  6. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I don't either. But, I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone knowing what the Empire is, and still supporting it, or being a part of it. Uncle Owen is a good example of someone just trying to stay out of things, and I didn't hold that against him. He didn't support the Empire. He just didn't feel anything could be done, and wanted to protect his family and not get involved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2022
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  7. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    @Pro Scoundrel
    What is your emotional involvement toward dramas like The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, and stuff like that? That is, when the main characters are just flat out awful.

    It seems to me that people generally tend to feel sympathy even when the character is morally reprehensible, if the story is well made. Our compassion works in mysterious ways.
     
  8. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I love them. Good drama is good drama. And in most of those cases, the people the main characters were in conflict with were as bad or worse than them. So, in that context, it's easy to root for them. And I have compassion for people who have flaws, but try to change. But, they DO have to try. Walter White was a man that started good, and changed due to the panic and trauma of finding out he was dying, and the fear of what that would mean for his family. His fall was understandable, and I felt compassionate towards him, but he definitely needed to be stopped by the end. Tony Soprano was a character that never really wanted to change, and his "therapy" was a sham that was just about him wanting to deal with his guilt, without stopping his behavior.

    Really great shows, but yeah, characters that fell too far due to bad choices.
    Yes, empathy can make people forget how bad someone is. Especially if they don't see the effect that person's actions has on others. It can be a slippery slope to empathize to the point of losing sight of the wrong someone is doing. But, it still makes for good drama a lot of the time.

    I feel compassion for Anakin Skywalker, but I don't condone his choices and actions. Great story and character, though.
     
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  9. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
    Well, Game of Thrones also had the Starks as central characters. Who were not awful.

    I think that's why some are having trouble getting into House of the Dragon, where pretty much everyone is awful.
     
  10. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    My problem with Hot D is mostly with the characters being as dumb as a sheep, rather than awful, but that's off-topic in this thread.
     
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  11. Darth Baga

    Darth Baga Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jul 21, 2021
    I think it adds a lot more depth and nuance to Star Wars. I'm glad Andor is attempting to feature more of these sympathetic Imperial characters. I also like the inclusion of morally grey Rebels.

    Most people aren't as innately evil as Palpatine. They're compelled to commit commit wicked acts by their creed, culture and life circumstances. Being good in an evil society is very difficult, even for the best of people.

    I appreciate it when Star Wars recognizes that. It makes the moral triumphs of our heroes even greater.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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  12. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2017
    Not only dumb as sheep, but temperamentally undifferentiated as well :-B

    I think the only character approaching this degree of development right now is Syrill, who is also the most interesting character of the show, by far.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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