Showing the true power of Anakin and Mace

So well said, COMMANDER76. Couldn't agree more.

 

Mace has not one thing to suggest that he has awesome force powers at all.I dont know where your getting the "big three" from.Nic gillard make several quotes about the level nine fighters and in one of them he doesnt even mention Mace.If you all the qoutes on TF.NET Hayden Christensen,Nic gillard and GL make Anain out to be the most powerful.

 

"The Jedi Master is winning when Anakin arrives, but Palpatine, as the scene has been rethought, now seizes the occasion to exaggerate his weakness. You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

The Making of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, page 133:

As they approach the end of the climactic battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin, Gillard explains how he's rated the various swordsmen: "On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he says. "Sidious is a level nine[out of ten]. On this film, Obi is eight-he's moved up-Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up with Sidious.
Once you get to eight, you have a Pandora's box. You could go any way with it. The way not to go is the dark side. But it would tempt you, because that would jump you right past the others. So you need to arrive at level eight at the right age-not as young as Anakin. That young, the dark side is just too tempting."

Also a factor in Gillard's development is backstory of the Jedi warriors. The training lineage does show up in the crafting of duels and action. "There's a line of training through Darth Tyranus and Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin. You can follow that line, and there's an aggressive fault in that line. Mace isn't of that line, and that allows you to give him unique talents."

- O_F

 

Anakin could beat Mace, he could beat anyone.

But Mace is strong.

Conclusion : We will never know.


I would have loved to see those 2 go at it. Mace would have been conflicted too! After a superb fight Anakin would get the advantage and disarm Mace (cut his hand). Anakin would tell Mace that if he wants to stay alive, he has to capitulate and be brought to custody for treason. Mace would respond to Anakin that HE is a traitor and that he would never betray the Jedi order or capitulate for a Sith Lord. He tries to reason Anakin. Anakin tells him he needs Sidious to save Padme. Mace can't believe what he is hearing! "You are a fool!" And there goes the insults between the 2.

Sidious tell Anakin to kill Mace, because he's too dangerous. Anakin can't... He doesn't want to kill the Jedi Master even if he would "really like too". Sidious says he will handle this. At this moment, Mace jumps, takes his saber with his remaining hand and strikes at the suprised Sith Lord.

"Nooo!"

Anakin cuts Mace's remaining hand and Sidious finishes him.

"What I have done?"

 

I wonder what a level 10 duelist would be like...

 

Anakin used his anger to defeat Dooku and destroy Jedi at the temple but his lack of control over his emotions led to his defeat by Obi Wan. Mace also used anger to defeat Sidious. Mace's control of his anger is what made him a wise and powerful Jedi. His anger at the moment before Anakin cut his hand off obviously blinded his intuition. He seemed top be the most intuitive in sensing how dangerous Anakin really was. Anger , it seems, is what blinds a Jedi's intuition to make good decisions. Obviously I am stating what most already know but the point is that Mace and Anakin were equally powerful in lightsaber combat. Mace's control of his emotions and experience is what makes him the most powerful in lightsaber combat. Yes, even more powerful than Yoda.

 

sidious killed Mace.. anakin just chopped off his hand and fell back onto his seat in agony. being killed by a whiney little brat[Anakin or Boba] would classify as going out like a punk. their was no real Darth vader in ROTS the only real Darth vader is in the orginal trilogy.

 

I wonder what a level 10 duelist would be like...

That's probably the level Anakin and Luke would be if they reached their full potential.

 

Darth Vader will prove to be the "most deadly character" in the film. - PH

Anakin has become a rockstar poster boy hero in the Clone Wars. His actions are meant to be of legend. -PH

"The duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived. Obi-Wan taught Anakin and Anakin has gone past him. But when you get to that duel, it's emotional. That's where the mistake will be made"- Nick Gillard

I think Anakin could definitely beat Mace if he was focused. About the "big 3" quote that people bring up, competing with the Emperor and beating the Emperor are 2 different things. If Anakin was close to beating the Emperor then you have to think he could at least hang with him.

 

"The Jedi Master is winning when Anakin arrives, but Palpatine, as the scene has been rethought, now seizes the occasion to exaggerate his weakness. You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

if anakin cant compete with the emperor yet (and he didnt overthrow immediately, so it seems to be true), then he would be in tough with the man who could compete with sidious, mace windu.

so it seems that either (A) sidious set up a show for anakin and anakin can compete with mace windu or (B) mace windu legitimately beat sidious and anakin cant compete with mace windu. is there any other real possibility?

 

Very astute observation, JJ.

 

*bows*

Thank you Master Double J......you logic is solid

Since Lucas never says anything about your scenario "A".....its more than safe to stick to the fact that Mace/Sidious/Yoda are on a different overall tier than Obi-Wan and Anakin. This scenario "B" you support falls more in line with the referenced quote and is further backed up by Yoda telling Obi-Wan directly to face Anakin because Sidious would destroy him.

Yoda himself puts Anakin and Obi-Wan on the same level....even though I'm sure he knows Anakin is the stronger duelist lightsaber wise......but you see......Yoda has "faith" in General Kenobi's wisdom and experience to carry him to victory over a slightly superior opponent. That stance alone dictates that Yoda places himself, Mace, and Sidious far beyond OWK and Ani.

 

thats true as far him not using a force push or the like. But we do see him lift himself off the balcony and into the arena quite effortlessly on geonosis.

to me, that balcony seems a couple hundred feet from the floor, easily making this move the greatest display of using the force to act on one's body in the entire saga.

another obvious, yet somehow overlooked fact is that wielding a lightsaber at the level mace does requires extensive force knowledge and power. his own size and non-force strength only augments
this proficiency, it is not its source

 

Maynard is kicking the wisdom tonight.

Its good to see you

 

It's good to see you too, COMMANDER76!

 

same here, my friend. but please, no more Force Hugs

 

Its all good Master Jedi Hunter 505 *handshake*



EDIT: o.k maynard...lol

 

Woooo-hooooo!!!!!!!!

 

GL,Hayden, and NG have said Ani,Yoda,Mace and sidious ar all level nines.Why is this so hard for you to accept.

 

Exactly, if he was focused. Anakin, if he's focused, is the strongest person alive.

But here's the thing, he isn't focused; that's why he makes stupid mistakes, that's why Obi-Wan crippled him - and that's why he wouldn't beat Mace, Yoda or Sidious. Because he's not focused; he's not the person he could/should be, he can't be the person he could/should be if he's a Sith - that's the entire point.

- O_F

 

N the entire point is that he is unfousced when fightmg Obi Wan.

 

And this is what we seen in his duel with the count. He completely owns Dooku, and that's because he focused.

 

GL,Hayden, and NG have said Ani,Yoda,Mace and sidious ar all level nines.Why is this so hard for you to accept.

Oh I accept it......but if you'd read through my entire 4 previous posts you would have noticed that I use that very fact from time to time to justify my stance even more so. Don't you find it odd that Lucas himself considers Anakin a level 9 lightsaber duelist.....but still ranks him on a lower "overall" power tier than Mace/Yoda/Sidious. What does something like that tell you???

It tells me that you are putting too much faith in Anakin's lightsaber abilities and looking past his gross neglect of Force powers and wisdom. True....his lightsaber level puts him up there with the Badboys in Ep 3, but his immaturity and lack of consistent focus delegates him back down to Kenobi's tier.

I mean you saw the duels didn't you........Anakin in his berserker rage only looked a little stronger than Obi-Wan Kenobi and he eventually lost that duel because Obi-Wan didn't make a mistake.....but instead waited on Anakin to make one and ended it with one beautiful stroke.
Anakin is "reckless"......and needs his opponents to make mistakes for him to win. When he fought Dooku the second time......Dooku's arrogance was his undoing as the Count legitimately thought that he was far beyond Anakin's skills(based on a Sidious lie)......something he realized was false too late. Mace is significantly more powerful than Dooku......how do we know this? Because Dooku admits to being terribly afraid of Sidious in LOE.....something we have to base on power......yet we see Mace as GL stated he could do earlier.....put Sidious on his overconfident ass. GL also states that Anakin was not powerful enough during the time of ROTS to beat Sidious......but that he would have been LATER in life if not for the Mustafar injuries. That fact alone kicks Anakin from the Big 3's table over to Kenobi's korner

 

Anakin is definitely reckless in his duel with Obi-Wan. You'll notice when he jumps over Obi-Wan on the the same platform as him, he nearly falls into the lava or gets cut up right then and there.

 

Master Yoshifett.....I just love the Signature updates