PT Signing the Treaty

from the novel

 

Where the novel and the film, conflict, the film takes precedence.

In this case if you notice Jar Jar isn't even in the room when Padme/Palpatine have their final words on Coruscant.

 

THERE IS NO CONFLICT

 

THERE ARE NO CORNFLAKES.

 

Talk about shameless marketing. I'd sooner sign a treaty than eat those.

 

George did say he was inspired by the old serials.

 

First, IF Padme remained on Naboo and was forced to sign the treaty.
What makes you think that the TF would let her out of their sight or let her go to the senate and tell them what really happened?
They wouldn't. They would most likely force her to make some public announcement, saying that she signed this treaty totally of her own free will and this will bring peace to her people etc.
Then they would keep her locked away until the situation settles and then she would have a tragic "accident."
They would be fools to let her run to the senate and blab about what they did.

Second, how exactly would Palpatine oust the TF?
The republic has no army.
They could revoke their trade franchise sure but if the TF decide to get violent in return then the republic has no soldiers to defend itself with. The TF have a "battle hardened" army.

Yes, since Palpatine is Sidous he could probably tell the TF to move. But would they do that if they get nothing in return?
If Palpatine becomes chancellor, he could remove the trade tax and that could satisfy the TF and they will leave. The tax is after all why they blockaded Naboo in the first place.
But would this make him look a hero?
He placates the TF by bowing to their wishes.

I do agree that Palpatine would most likely use the treaty to show that Valorum is ineffective and he could say that it was most likely made under duress etc.
And he could push for Valorum to be removed.

But would Palpatine really be a senator after Naboo becomes part of the TF. If Naboo is no longer a sovereign system and is instead a part of the TF, wouldn't Naboo loose it's place in the senate and the TF guy would speak for it?
At the very least, the TF could decide who is the senator from Naboo.
Yes since Palpatine runs them, he would most likely tell them not do this.
But if Palpatine causes a lot of trouble for the TF, wouldn't they find be itching to remove him if they can?

RE: the connection between the trade tax and Naboo.
Based on the crawl, the TF blockade Naboo as a way to strongarm the senate to remove the tax.
So the treaty actually works counter to that goal. If Naboo signs the treaty, the blockade is gone and the TF looses it's leverage over the senate.
Some have suggested that Naboo is very rich. Where IN the film is that made clear?
The capital looks nice sure but that alone is not enough to say that the planet is super rich or has valuable resources. Besides, is Naboo more valuable than the trade tax?

The TF already control a number of planets, remember from Naboo, apparently the only planet they could reach that wasn't controlled by the TF, was Tatooine, which is not in the republic.
So either Naboo is close to the edge of the republic or the TF control a great number of systems.
So why would the TF risk so much by taking a world when they have so many already?

@The_Phantom_Calamari

Not sure about that.
In my country there is a tax on all food stuff and some years ago the government lowered it from 12 % to 6 %. This should in theory give cheaper food but this didn't happen as all the shops and food companies basically pocketed the difference and the consumers saw little of it.
Same thing happened when they lowered the tax on food and drink sold in restaurants, again the prices didn't change much and the owners simply pocketed the difference.
We have a high tax on alcohol and petrol and thus those things are expensive.
And when the price of crude oil goes down, the price of petrol tends to drop but often never as much.
However when price of oil goes up, then the petrol price increases quickly

If the TF have a monopoly on all trade, raising their prices in response to taxes would be easy for them to do and they could simply blame the senate.
And if there are regulations over the prices that the TF can charge, I would imagine that is something they would want gone as much if not more so than a trade tax.

The blockade itself was called an "alarming chain of events" so things had already escalated quite a bit.
And I know that Nute says the blockade is perfectly legal but he has reasons to not be totally honest.


Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Damn it, Sheev!

 

Palpatine could spin the situation to his advantage. If the sovereignty of Naboo is in dispute - the senate seat would be too. Palpatine becomes an exiled senator fighting against the corruption of the galaxy to free his people. Some senators would say he should step down. Others say he must retain the seat until Naboo is free. If the Trade Federation says Palpatine should be removed - it gives Palpatine a chance to make a speech in the senate that will get him the support of the people of the galaxy. Through corruption - Palpatine probably already has the vote of the other senators to be Chancellor. Instead of playing the more passive doddering Palpatine we get in Episode 2 - he can be a rebellious firebrand. Like a reverse Count Dooku or the Dalai Lama on Earth. Or even like Senator Amidala. He makes impassioned speeches to rally the galaxy and draw a line between the interests of the Trade Federation and those of the regular people.

Like the Clone Wars Sidious is still controlling both sides. And all of this can still lead to the Clone Wars.

Agreed - we don't see anything to make Naboo appear opulently rich. It looks like they are doing well. There was peace and the people are comfortable. Still taking over an entire planet has to be worth something.

Why would the TF risk so much? Darth Sidious tempted Nute Gunray with something to get this going. Maybe the Sith Lord delivered in the past. They're also afraid of Sidious. But whatever he promised them - their greed gives them courage enough to not run away.

So my take is the incentive for the invasion all came from a promise by Darth Sidious.

 

But if the senate would quickly agree to TF control over Naboo if Padme signed the treaty, which is said in the film. That would likely include Palpatine's position as senator.

Then why would there be any dispute over whether Naboo is occupied or not?
Padme, the ruler of Naboo, told the senate in person that there had been an invasion and the senate refused to believe her.
They basically told her, "Go away, you are lying."
And it did nothing.

Sure the senate basically does whatever Palpatine tells it to but leaving that aside, would the senate be more likely to act when presented with a treaty than before?
The senate knew about the blockade and could not do anything.
They were told by Padme in person that war had broken out and they refused to act.
Not one senator spoke up in Padme's defense. Not one senator saying "Shut up, let her finish talking!"

I don't really see this senate as one to give much of a crap about Naboo if they are presented with a treaty. Since the concept of "Signed under duress" seems an alien concept in the SW galaxy, I don't see them doing much.

And if the treaty could be exploited to paint the TF as the bad guys, how come they don't realize this?
Yes they are pretty dimwitted but come on.

[/QUOTE]

But as I said before, the TF ALREDAY controls a large number of planets.
The only system they could reach from Naboo was Tatooine, the rest were all controlled by the TF.
So if they say control 500 systems, one more isn't going to be worth going out of your way for.
Yes they did all this because Sidious told them to.
What they want is rid of the trade tax and Sidious probably encouraged them to take drastic action, like blockading Naboo to strongarm the senate into doing what they ask.
Obviously, as far as they know, Sidious isn't yet powerful enough to simply get the senate to remove the trade tax, or he would have done it already.
So the blockade makes some sense as far as the TF's goals go.
But the invasion was apparently on the table before the Jedi arrive, so one does wonder, why did the TF think that this would get rid of the trade tax, the reason why they are doing this in the first place?
If they control Naboo and thus Naboo's vote in the senate and they need that one vote to overturn the trade tax. Then I can see that working but it is never hinted at in the film.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Great questions and points.

Agreed. On paper it seems like that’s what should happen. In practice the full senate might not quickly agree to TF control if it’s believed the treaty was signed under duress.

As others have smartly pointed out - the Trade Federation controls so many planets near Naboo - Tatoonie is the nearest safe system. It’s sort of scary TF have that much power. Being taken over by the Trade Federation could be a real fear for other free systems.

When Padme asked for a no confidence vote in Valorium the Senate takes action immediately. There is unrest and incentive to make quick change.

My guess is Palpatine would allow more details about the invasion to get out and stir things up. So often in politics action is taken only after a situation is beyond critical.

Most of the senate thought Naboo was under legal blockade. They didn’t know about the invasion of the planet until Amidala’s speech.

No one stood up for Padme - but Valorum is voted out of office meaning her vote of no confidence is resoundingly approved.

(On a side note - how can Padme, non-senator, call for a vote of no-confidence. And what are the rules for speaking to the senate?)

The senate care enough about Naboo - or the at least the ineffective way the government is dealing with Naboo - to vote out the Chancellor. And Valorium cared enough to send two Jedi to settle the issue.

I don’t know what the TF’s understanding of the situation is or what they hope to gain beyond ending the trade route tax. Is “they did it because Darth Sidious told them to” a viable answer?

On screen the Neimodian’s all think the plan is too risky and a terrible idea. But they do what Sidious tells them. Has the Sith Lord pulled off risky but profitable plans with them in the past?

Do the TF out right controls these planets or is more of a behind the scenes sort of control or agreeable partnership with those worlds?

The movie really doesn’t explain the TF’s plan in much detail - is the invasion permanent? Did Darth Sidious always plan for them to fail? It seems like a representative government 1,000 years old - would have laws to prevent a vote being stolen or bought.

 

Thank you, you bring up some good points as well.

Well the senate apparently has a rule that says that just someone telling them that something has happened is not enough for them to act. They have to send out a commission to see if really has happened.


That other worlds would fear the TF, yes very much so.
And in top of that, now they hear that the TF have openly invaded a republic world.
In effect declaring war on the republic.
And what do they do, sack their leader, making the republic leaderless.

These events would make a thing like a republic army make sense to these smaller worlds.
If the army bill came out of this and not the seps, then I think it migth have worked better.
As it is in AotC, it sounds like the republic wants an army to keep the seps in by force.
Or they are worried that the seps will attack and they need an army to defend themselves.
But why would the seps attack if they just want to leave?
If they are denied that sure but can the senate refuse systems to leave the republic?

Which could all come from Palpatine's cronies.
He has the senate in his pocket, they do whatever he tells them to.

Possibly. Plus the TF have apparently put the ENTIRE population of Naboo in camps and is slowly killing them all.
I would image that would be hard to hide.
And I wonder why the TF is suddenly this genocidal.
They want control over Naboo. But if they kill the entire population the planet is now much less useful.
Plus they have a lot of corpses to dispose of.
And I would imagine the backlash if word of this got out would be severe.
So again why?
To force Padme to sign the treaty?
Killing the whole population seems stupid overkill.

The legality of the blockade is in doubt as Nute is the one who says it but with a pause and he has reason to lie about it.
And the senate was unable to do anything about the blockade.
And when told about a war, they do nothing except make themselves leaderless.

If one senator had spoken up and given her his support then it would make a big difference to me.
But the only ones who speak out are the TF and some that support the TF.

Quite, I have asked this very question in the past.
It would be like the mayor of NY being able to speak in the senate and have the power to call for a vote to remove the President.
And if this is so easy to do, how can the senate ever do anything?
If all it takes is a call and one vote in support.
Anytime a vote comes up that two senators oppose, one could call for a vote and the other supports it.
Even if it gets nowhere, they can keep doing this forever and the bill will never pass.
So the TF could have stopped the trade tax by doing this to Valorum over and over again.

Valorum's actions makes no sense here.
He did care enough to send two Jedi to settle this matter. Clearly he was frustrated with the senate's inability to deal with a crisis and took action. An action he know would become known had the Jedi done what they were sent to do.
When Padme comes to Coruscant, he is informed that the situation is much worse.
The TF have in effect declared war on the republic by invading and conquering Naboo.
So he KNOWS that the situation is dire. Remember the republic has NO army while the TF has got lots of soldiers. They have shown themselves not to hold back anymore and could attack other worlds. So getting the senate to act now is crucial. And yet he quickly crumbles.
If the issue of evidence was so vital, why didn't he have the two Jedi act as witnesses?
I think the TF guy might be hesitant to call the Jedi liars.
Or why didn't Padme suggest calling the two Jedi, either when she talked to Palpatine or in the senate?
Even if Valorum is removed, that will take time and meanwhile her people are dying.
And she ahs no idea if a new chancellor would be able to get anything done either.
The same rule of evidence could be brought up.

"Sidious told them to", that works if we are to think that the TF are little more than mindless Sith goons.
If they are to be people that can think and act on their own, then the explanation works less well.

Why they work with him is not explained, if he had delivered things in the past or such things. None of that is mentioned. How did they come in contact with him? If the Sith were despotic rulers over the galaxy 1000 years ago and being a sith is illegal, why are they dealing with him?

The dialogue in the film is;

He says "controlled" and the implication is that the TF are looking for her and are thus sending out word to all systems they control.
Planets are big, if the TF just have a presence or an office somewhere. Then the queen's ship can land, repair it and take off without them knowing about it.
For the TF to be able to find out where Padme is quickly, then they must have a fair amount of control over the planet. Such that they know which ships land or they are able to send out word saying "Find this person."
Also, if the TF sends out word that Padme, the queen of Naboo has fled from them.
Wouldn't that reach other people?
And expose them?

[/QUOTE]

The movies gloss over a lot of things.
And given that the TF thought that holding a gun to Padme's head and force her to sign a treaty would not cause any questions in the senate. Then it seems that "signed under duress" doesn't exist here.
And we have a senate where almost anyone can speak and call for a vote to remove the chancellor.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark