Sith Naming (speculation)

I notice that all the Sith's names so far (those in timetales) after Darth Bane follow a sort of a pattern


1.Darth Bane
2.Darth Rivan or Riven
3.Darth Sidious
4.Darth Maul
5.Darth Tyranus
6.Darth Vader
7.Darth Lumiya

My theory that all their names are derived from actual words with negative connotations and meanings

1. Bane: meaning cause of trouble
2. Riven: torn violently
3. Sidious: from the word insidious meaning proceeding inconspicously but producing harmful effect
4. Maul: treat roughly
5. Tyranus: from the word tyrant or tyrannical: ruler in a harsh way
6. Vader: possibly from the word invader?? meaning person who enters territory with hostile intent
7. Lumiya: I have absolutely no idea

 

Well, I'll add an interesting one I've used in RP's before. His name is Darth Venomous and he is referred to Venom for short.

Just seems like a cool name.

 

Note, Lumiya has never been referred to as Darth Lumiya anywhere. Due to her training on Korriban itself, she most likely took the Sith back to their older roots/naming conventions.

Note, Darth Rivan is most likely older than Darth Bane and he carries the "Darth" title. There's still a lot up in the air about him and the Sith Wars, but IMO entire planets aren't generally terraformed "overnight."

 

Actually prediction for terraforming that scientists imagine is possible in in the upcoming years with growing technology, is 50 to 100 years, maybe even less.

 

True, we don't know if Lumiya is called Darth, but it would make logical sense to assume she is. Darth is, like I said before on another thread, a combination of Darth and Sith. Once you become a true Sith, and no longer just an apprentice, you gain that title, irregardless of sex.

 

No, officially she is just Lady Lumiya according to her last appearence, this year in gamer 5.

"Darth is, like I said before on another thread, a combination of Darth and Sith."

Actually that is just a fan-made speculation, and doesn't have any evidence or written documentation by official sources.

Infact lucas himself just said that darth meant "dark". But he himself is capable of changing his mind.

 

Still, it is logical to assume that she may have gained that title. Even if Darth doesn't mean Dark Sith, every Sith Lord since Darth Bane has had the title. And, since there's a great gap of undocumented time in the galaxys history, it is entirely possible that Lumiya isn't the first female Dark Lord.

 

Lumiya is definitely not the first female Sith. However, whether or not the others were "Sith Lords" or not remains to be seen. In the Sith heirarchy, the class of Sith Lords are few and far between and are extremely powerful - being able to do things no other Force-users can accomplish.

Some other female Sith (going from memory) are those in JvS and one is referred to in the TotJ Companion IIRC. I don't remember if they were Lords (Ladies), though.

Remember, Lumiya, like Luke is both the end of the old and beginning of the new. She was in the picture when both of her masters, each reigning Sith Lords were vanquished at the same time - and had to pick up the pieces. In fact, she may easily have followed the naming practices her master, who was not officially known as Darth Palpatine. But, in any case, we don't know the exact "Bane Sith Code" - if such a thing even exists. We have no idea if "Thou Shalt Name Yourself 'Darth'" is an unbreakable tenet. I'd say by virtue of her position, Lumiya is free to name herself whatever she wants to ensure the survival of the Sith. And naming oneself "Darth" is a sure sign that you have Sith connections - something which may be a problem for Lumiya if she's trying to hide.

 

Officially palpatine was not lumiya's master. Infact she was vader's handpicked assasin, and hand if you will according to marvel. Picked out of a 1000s of possible canditates that lived on emperor's estate. But that many children living there it's doubtful that palpatine even ever gave them the time of day. At leas that is official and author stance by current LFL employees. I agree with LFL's stance now that I have read those marvel stories. lumiya is definatly tied more to vader and not really tied to palpatine at all.

 

Valiento...
"Officially palpatine was not lumiya's master."

Incorrect. Officially, Palpatine was indeed Lumiya's master.

"Infact she was vader's handpicked assasin, and hand if you will according to marvel."

Again, incorrect. Vader only recommended that Shira Brie be chosen to be trained as an Imperial Intelligence operative. However, it was the Emperor's own scientists who raised Shira's pain threshold to its highest level, and gave her an
accelerated healing rate.

"...it's doubtful that palpatine even ever gave them the time of day."

Not supported by anything. That's your own rather biased speculation. She was indeed raised on Palpatine's estate, not Vader's.

"I agree with LFL's stance now that I have read those marvel stories. lumiya is definatly tied more to vader and not really tied to palpatine at all. "

Incorrect perception. Officially, Lumiya is definitely tied to Palpatine. She is also tied to Vader. It was the Emperor's scientists who transformed her from Shira Brie into Lumiya after her mortal wounds at the hands of Luke. Vader was allowed to teach her the ways of the Force. It was after the death of Palpatine specifically that she turned to the Nagai to help destroy the former Rebels who vanquished him.

Like it or not, Lumiya is conceptually the "daughter" of Palpatine and "younger sister" of Vader. She is someone who has been influenced by both her Sith "masters."

 

You are most definatly incorrect:

The official stance is:

"This is the approach I used when writing the character. The argument exists that Shira was raised on Palpatine's estate, and therefore he must have raised/trained her, but that IMO does not necessarily follow. One need not entail the other. If the line read, "in Palpatine's house," the implication would be pretty hard to argue, but an estate is quite a different thing; Shira may not even have ever come in contact with Palpatine. No literature I have come in contact with has emphasized the Palpatine angle, while the Vader angle I felt has been pounded into the reader since the Marvel series. What's more, I was aiming to appease long time Marvel fans with my depiction of Lumiya, and all with whom I engaged in conversation about Lumiya had already made up their minds over a decade ago that Lumiya's devotion was to Vader rather than Palpatine." Halagad

Infact this used to be a stance you used to hold on these boards before the existence of essential chronology added to lumiya's history.

 

"Incorrect. Officially, Palpatine was indeed Lumiya's master."

Nope by above information written by lfl author.


"Again, incorrect. Vader only recommended that Shira Brie be chosen to be trained as an Imperial Intelligence operative. However, it was the Emperor's own scientists who raised Shira's pain threshold to its highest level, and gave her an
accelerated healing rate."

No actually the comic says

"Personally selected by lord darth vader for infiltration into banned organization known as "rebel alliance."

Also note author's words.

The only connection that lumiya has to palpatine is that vader hid her under palpatines nose by suggesting to him that she be his hand.

 

You are most most definitely incorrect.

"The official stance is..."
Point 1 - The personal beliefs of someone aren't necessarily an "official stance." However, even granting that it weighs heavily, in no way did Abel state conclusively that Palaptine was not Lumiya's Master. Merely that he didn't accept that being raised on his estate implied being raised by him (certainly a highly subjective point.) That is, NOWHERE did Abel (Halagad) state what you've stated or state anything contrary to what I've stated. You're trying to insert your own views into things that don't exist officially or even within Abel's own words.

Key points of his...
1. "The argument exists that Shira was raised on Palpatine's estate, and therefore he must have raised/trained her, but that IMO does not necessarily follow." - IMO. In Abel's opinion, not in LFL's opinion.
2. "Shira may not even have ever come in contact with Palpatine." - Key word being "may," not "did."
3. "No literature I have come in contact with has emphasized the Palpatine angle" - Unfortunately, Abel was quite incorrect in this statement, and it's probably the reason for his opinions. In the Star Wars Galaxy article, the following exists:

• Born Shira Elan Colla Brie, she was a native of the beautiful planet Coruscant, and was raised on an estate belonging to Senator Palpatine.
• Her fighting skills and allegience to the Empire were already exceptional, and her body was biologically altered to match. The Emperor's scientists raised Shira's pain threshold to its highest level, and gave her an accelerated healing rate.
• Shira was rescued by the Empire and returned to Coruscant. There,
  the Emperor's scientists used their most advanced cybernetics to save
  her.
• After the death of the Emperor, Lumiya tracked down the former Rebels with the help of an alien species called the Nagai, and later their enemy, the Tofs.

And finally...
"Infact this used to be a stance you used to hold on these boards before the existence of essential chronology added to lumiya's history."

That's actually simply not true. My stance has always held that Lumiya had ties to Palpatine as well as Vader, because that's what officially exists as LFL's policy.

 

Key word you use your own oppinion as well, which don't have any official basis. which doesn't make yours ideas right as well.

As well as my many years on these boards, I've seen you change your views over and over, until you start trying to preach this new one. You can deny it, but i'm not the only one who remembers your changed view. I'd throw quotes back at you but oddly enough those posts died when we switched forums.

But it doesn't make your view the correct view, but just one of the views. I tend to agree with abel's view, so do many other fans. We may be right, we may be wrong, but neither is your anymore right. emperor's scientist does not entail that the emperor had direct contact with her. So yes what conclusion I've come to is views can be different from different people but that doesn't make all views right or wrong, or one view more than another. We just know what the author's view is for the gamer 5 article as the most current view used when writing an lfl article.

 

Val...
"Key word you use your own oppinion as well, which don't have any official basis."

Again, you're wrong. See points above regarding Abel's quote that "No literature I have come in contact with has emphasized the Palpatine angle." Officially, the Palpatine angle has always been emphasized. That official policy forms the basis for my opinion.

"As well as my many years on these boards, I've seen you change your views over and over, until you start trying to preach this new one. You can deny it, but i'm not the only one who remembers your changed view."

How so? My unshakeable stance is that Mara Jade has always been the conceptual clone of Shira Brie. The EC merely confirmed what Shira fans have already known about her character - that she was an Emperor's Hand in appearance, form, function and concept even if Marvel didn't title her such.

"But it doesn't make your view the correct view, but just one of the views. I tend to agree with abel's view, so do many other fans."

Sure, there's a lot of fans who hold different opinions. That's not in dispute.

"We may be right, we may be wrong, but neither is your anymore right. emperor's scientist does not entail that the emperor had direct contact with her."

So now we hit the hypocrisy. If you're going to word-lawyer the "estate" as not being "home," then certainly they could just as easily have said Vader's scientists. There is indeed a link to the Emperor. That cannot be denied, while it seems that you wish to do so, incorrectly.

"We just know what the author's view is for the gamer 5 article as the most current view used for an lfl article."

However, his views supports my opinion as much as it does yours, nor does it contradict my opinions at all.

 

As well, direct quotes from the article in gamer:

"When darth vader sensed force within her, he placed her in accelerated academy training for imperial intelligence.

Vader arranged with director isard to send shira on a solo intelligence mission.

Shot down... no longer shira brie. In her place the Dark Lady Lumiya. Her force instruction began.

Vader knew he couldn't hide lumiya from palpatine indefininatly. Instead, vader opted to hide her right under his nose by offering Lumiya as a "hand". Palpatine greedily accepted."

Infact it's the empire, everything belongs to the emperor, even if he personally doesn't always get involved.

 

Well, I think Vader is probably the only Sith whose name doesn't have a negative connotation. I don't rember which language it's in (either Dutch or something similar), but it means "father". So, when Lucas named the character, it was meant to mean "dark father." But apparently, the whole vader being luke's dad thing wasn't planned until ESB, so maybe it was originally meant to mean father of darkness/evil or something like that. While I think his name has the deepest meaning behind it, the other Sith names have all suited their characters well. Bane is like a poison, and commonly used along the lines of "[something] is the bane of my existence" in drama. Since he was the founder of the Order that Palpatine arose from, this makes sense. Maul was a killing machine, a weapon for Palpatine to use against the Jedi. Sidious, derived from insidious of course, plays to Palpatine's secretive nature. Tyranus, as stated on the original post, is akin to tyrant. Dooku was the leader of a separtist movement in the order, so it kind of suits him. I'm not sure about Riven or Lumiya though.

 

Genghis and Val dukin' it out over continuity! It's a clash of the titans!

 

Genghis12, you yourself frequently called Lady Lumiya "Darth Lumiya" many months ago; we frequently took exception to this, as we take exception to your allegation that Lady Lumiya was anything but a bastard Sith trained by Lord Vader.

You neglect, as usual, that Lady Lumiya was not a legitimate Sith, as the Sith Master from prior to 14 P.E.D. until 27 E.D. was HIM The Emperor (Lord Sidious). If she was not his apprentice, she was not a Sith.

She was neither his apprentice, nor a legitimate Sith Lord. She is nothing but a bastard apprentice, leader of a cadet line. The Sith Order died with HIM The Emperor on Onderon. Lady Lumiya is founder of her own Sith branch, not the legitimate successor to Lord Bane's Sith Order.

The clear indication of the Gamer #5 article is that Lady Lumiya was primarily an agent of Lord Vader, who nominally served HIM The Emperor but was truly loyal to Lord Vader.

As the honourable Valiento has pointed out, and as we have maintained throughout this series of discussions, as an agent of the Empire, Major Brie was a servant of HIM The Emperor. This does not, however, mean that she was loyal to him or primarily linked to him; there were trillions of servants of HIM The Emperor in the same fashion as was Major Brie.

Merely having been raised on Senator Palpatine's estate is not a connection to the man himself -- Senator Palpatine is an aristocrat, a member of a noble house. There could easily be hundreds of people born and raised on estates belonging to House Palpatine whom the patriarch and senator would never have personally met.

Recall that one can be a Congressional page and never meet the Speaker of the House or the President of the Senate. Major Brie's background on an estated owned by House Palpatine is relatively worthless as determining her connection to HIM The Emperor.

 

To add a bit about the reason they take the name Darth, I read somewhere, that it was the conjunction (right word to use? dunno) of the full title Dark Lord of the Sith, taking the Dar from the first and the th from the last. That's how I've always reasoned the "darth" title. I can't remember where I read it, but if I do I'll post it as evidence.

 

Oz... That is one of those fan made speculations by the way, and not listed any where officially. Even if you show evidence from a fan site it's still not going to be official.

 

It wasn't in a fan site, I think it was in Timetales...I'm checking now to be sure.

 

What you think timetales is? It's a fan site, it doesn't have lfl's official seal of continuity stamped on it. Written by fans for the fans. But isn't 100% accurate.

 

Valiento,

Unfortunately, your position regarding Lumiya is even more extreme than even the creator of the Star Wars Gamer article and is indefensible. Abel (most likely by design) left nearly everything ambiguous; inconclusive in his "background" quotes. Words like "may," etc. Basically, he felt Vader had a stronger connection than Palpatine. You seemed to be arguing that Palpatine had no connection - something which is neither supported by official continuity or unofficial "author statements."

Issue 1 - Palpatine?s Estate:

Abel Pena (Halagad Ventor, SWG5 author) stated ?The argument exists that Shira was raised on Palpatine's estate, and therefore he must have raised/trained her, but that IMO does not necessarily follow. One need not entail the other. If the line read, "in Palpatine's house," the implication would be pretty hard to argue, but an estate is quite a different thing; Shira may not even have ever come in contact with Palpatine.? However, the reality is that Shira Brie was INDEED raised in Palpatine?s ?house? ? the Imperial Palace on Coruscant. We know that Shira was raised in two key Palpatine locations:
• ?Personal history judged ideal. Born in Empire capitol. Raised in Palace of Emperor Palpatine as part of an experiment in adolescent indoctrination? (Marvel #63)
• ? Born Shira Elan Colla Brie, she was a native of the beautiful planet Coruscant, and was raised on an estate belonging to Senator Palpatine.?(Star Wars Galaxy3)
Now, we get to the problems. First, by Abel?s own admission that the implication is pretty hard to argue (but it hasn?t stopped you from doing it, Val) because Shira was raised in the Emperor?s Palace (his house). There is no more greater ?house of Palpatine? than his Imperial Palace on Coruscant. But, more importantly, Shira Brie was raised on Senator Palpatine?s estate. Then, once Senator Palpatine became Emperor, Shira Brie lived in his palace on Coruscant. Palpatine had been aware of Shira Brie for nearly the girl?s whole life.

Issue 2 ? ?No Palpatine Connection?:

Abel stated ? No literature I have come in contact with has emphasized the Palpatine angle.? Unfortunately, this has been proven false. And I admit it is indeed unfortunate. Abel did not seem to be aware that Shira was raised both in Senator Palpatine?s estate as well as in his palace after he became Emperor. Abel did not seem to be aware that it was the Emperor?s scientists who genetically altered Shira into the Imperial Superwoman prior to Vader ever coming into contact with her. Abel did not seem to be aware that it was the Emperor?s scientists who put Lumiya back together the same way the Emperor had Anakin Skywalker put back together. Abel did not seem to be aware that it was the Emperor?s death who triggered Lumiya to action with the Nagai invasion. Because it seems that his belief that no literature emphasized the Palaptine ?angle? is actually incorrect with respect to prior continuity. If you try and base your view of things on the incorrect belief that Palpatine had no influence, you will be in error. We know the following chain of events:
• Shira Brie born in Imperial Capitol. (Marvel #63)
• Shira Brie raised on Senator Palpatine?s estate(SWG3)
• Shira Brie raised in Emperor Palpatine?s palace(Marvel #63)
• Shira Brie trained in all known forms of combat to expert rating(Marvel #63)
• Shira Brie biologically altered to reject pain and have accelerated healing by the Emperor?s scientists (Marvel 63 & SWG3)
• Shira Brie graduated with top honors in history of academy(Marvel#63)
• Shira finally makes contact with Vader for his ?Vader Project? whose sole purpose was to destroy Luke Skywalker. (Marvel #63)
Therefore, the fact is that Palpatine raised her on his older Senatorial estate, moved her to his palace. She went on to destroy every record the academy had. This point is rather absurd to argue that Palpatine was not ?aware? of such an over-achiever. It was her excellence

 

I know that it's mentioned somewhere (and I've actually heard it said) that Darth Vader come from either Swedish or Danish, and the actual translation is Dark Father. Kinda a little hint as to Vader's paternal status.