Slightly OT: Star Trek Nemesis Visual Effects

Hey guys. For those of you who hate Star Trek, turn away. However, for those of you who love both Star Wars and Star Trek, and are able to enjoy the best of both worlds, endulge with me for a moment.
I just wanted to point out what a superb job Digital Domain did with the Nemesis visual effects. The CGI ships are some of the best I've EVER seen. The space effects in this movie are better than the one's in AOTC. Not to dis ILM or anything, but Digital Domain is definately going to give them some competition. The reason I started this topic, was to figure out one very specific question about the movie.

SPOILER!!!!!

I wanted to know if anyone knows how the effects shot was done where the Enterprise rams the alien ship. I think it was a model shot. I find it hard to believe that they did that shot with CGI. I think it was done with scale models. It looked awesome. Absolutely incredible. I don't know if ILM could even beat that. So, do you guys know how that shot was done?

p.s when Picard was about to ram the alien ship with the Enterprise, did you notice how he just said "Brace for impact" not "People in the forward section get the HELL out of there!"

 

I was thinking the same thing about Picard too Pixel. Laughed out loud in the theater.

I can't imagine them using models for that shot. While it would be very difficult in 3d I would think it'd be even more difficult to control in the real world of models. It's possible but I'm of the belief that it was cgi, and even then it didn't look like cgi. They definitely did an excelent job on this one even if the movie was lackluster to some. I enjoyed it. Could it have been better? Yes. Was it worse than ST 5? Not in a million years.

 

and just what is wrong with Chuckles: the Laughing Vulcan??? hmmm??? sorry, that's what i call ST5... lol

ANYHOO... i'm sitting here thinking about your question, pixel, and i get where you're coming from... the debris flying from both ships as they collide looks a little too realistic to be CG... my only guess would be a mix of media... model usage enhanced by CG... i could be wrong, of course, but however they did it, i was impressed...

my only question...

****SPOILERS****




don't Federation Starships have battle bridges? Picard must have been goin rather postal to engage that ship with the front half of his bridge missing...

 

It was a model. I'd heard that months ago, one of the early spoilers I'd read, that Digital Domain had pulled the old model out of mothballs (hadn't been used since "First Contact", if I remember correctly), specifically for a shot where they had to smash up the front of the ship. The debris was probably a mix of CGI and whatever debris flew off of the models when they dropped it (I believe that's how they did it, by filming it sideways and literally dropping the Enterprise model onto the Scimitar model, shooting with high-speed film from many many cameras).

 

Yes it was a combination of model work and CG.

I do disagree with the space FX assesments. Many of the space shots were too darl and nost as crisp as previous efforts (just see First Contact). Heck for superb space FX just watch the work in Space Cowboys. Besides it's not like DD is an upstart, they are a mjaor house, what did you expect? As far as crashes and things like that you might have seen some in a little movie called Pearl Harbor maybe ;-).

Second DD wouldn't pull the model from the mothballs, if anything they would have asked ILM for it, since it was ILm that built it for First Contact. Most probably only a saucer shaped proxy colliding object, say painted in green, was crashed into another model and then susbstituted by a CG ship. Might have also been a full detailed model though. A lot of the debris was CG especially in the exterior shots.

 

How do you people know these things?

 

Cool. I thought it was model shots. The surface of the Enterprise in that scene looks like a model, rather than CGI. One day I hope to work on a Star Trek movie, or at least one of the TV shows. Scene I won't be ready in time to work on Episode III.

 

Pixel: I am right there with you, i would love so much to work on one of the ST movies/shows.

That must have been some highspeed film (or did they film that part digitally?). I thought it was pretty sweet when the enterprise was ramming the Reamen(sp?) ship, it has a scene of the hanger with all the little ships in it and you could see the saucer section slicing though it. That ruled!!!

 

That was really cool. I think that hanger bay scene was one of the few parts that was almost entirely CG though.

I thought the effect in that movie were fantastic overall. And, they didn't overdo it. Only the scenes that needed CG had it. Unlike some films, that they feel compelled to use CG in every nook and cranny.

 

Amen to that last statement.

 

i didnt like how the ships moved ... there's a large difference between First Contact and this movie.. in first contact the movements were such that the scale of the ships seemed larger.. and in this movie i'd say the ships are almost taking a 'fighters' manuverability.. just watch the way the large romulan ship was moving.. and its about 3 times bigger than the enterprise! thats huge..

other than that thats pretty much my one complaint..

also where's my standard trek movie opening?

 

the only thing i didn't like really was the Pheateon(sp?) Radiation generator, with that little piller of light, i thought that was a little to comical.

And also, did anyone else think that when Picard and Data were on the Reamon ship and they were having that fire fight that that the Reamon weapons were extremely loud?

And you know what would have been really funny. You know when the front half of the bridge gets blown off and that one guy gets sucked out into space, wouldn't it have been really funny if Troy had let go of what she was holding on to, went flying toward space, then the containment field came on and she slams into the field, that would have been great. Anyway...

 

I have to agree with Pixel...

I am a big Trek and SW fan, and I can always count on the Trek films for giving me one thing, a great story where the FX are used ONLY to help it along. I loved Ep II, but the overabundance of FX still bugs me.

I also agree that the FX in Nemesis were much better than those found in Ep II by a long shot. Being able to concentrate on only certain shots must make quite a difference quality wise.

I hope the franchise doesn't die with this film (the box office receipts weren't as high as expected). I'd love to see more Digital Domain FX in future Trek films (and I wish I could afford their new at home FX software).

 

I liked the FX and meakeup but that's it! as far as the story is connserned Nemmesis
SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In my vew Star Trek Nemmesis NEVER HAPENED!!!!!!!!

BTW And to think: Exepet for Star Trek Nemmesis I actualy like ST!!

 

Yea, StarTrek has always been really good about havign a good story behind it. The ppl at Paramount said that this would be the last ST movie unless it did really well in the box office, then they would consider making another one.

 

Well, that's that then...
I went on Sunday night at 10:30. It was showing on 2 screens. There were only 6 other people in the theater I was in.

Say goodbye to the Trek franchise.

And, as a lover of both stories, I think that sucks.

BTW: I liked this movie a lot. It certainly blew away that last one, and the one where they found god, and the one with the whales.

To go on with my other point... As much as I love Star Wars, they are going way to far with the special FX. Too much of the movie looks totally fake. Granted a great portion of those effects were totally awesome, but they still went too far. The next movie will probably only use the lips and eyeballs of real actors and CGI the rest.

EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing. I still say the the ESB Yoda puppet was more lifelike than the CGI one of today. And, certainly better than that crappy one in EpI.

 

Man, I wish they'd get a new writer in there and get Star Trek back on it's feet. It used to be so awesome. Now it's just OK. Still not as crappy as LOTR though....bwaaa ha ha ha. If this is the last Star Trek movie, I will be truly sad.

 

durbnpoisn: you know that in the Movie where they find "god" that wasn't really God. It was an alien that had been banished from the galaxy by the Q Continumm. This is revealed in one of the official book series. That alien and 2 others like him had super powers like the Q's and tried to take over the galaxy a LONG LONG time ago. In the book series there was a part where the aliens and the Q's were battleing in outerspace and one of the aliens throw a meteor at a Q, the Q deflected it and it slammed into earth, that is supposed to be what happened to the dinosaurs.

Great book series, i forget what it is called but they were by Gregory Cox. I want to say that the books were simply called "The Continumm - part 1, 2, and 3" but not sure. I would highly suggest reading these books. THey were really good.

 

buliwif, the Enterprise-D had a battle bridge because it was a galaxy class and had the ability to seperate its saucer secton from the drive section. The drive section had the battle bridge so it could act as the ship that would go into battle while the saucer takes all non-essential personel and go to safty.

Pixel, how can you possibly say LOTR's sucks? I've agreed with everything you have said so far, but just because it doesn't have "star" in its name doesn't mean it sucks.

durbnpoisn, I agree it blew away the final frontier and insurrection, but the voyage home was definently classic trek and was better than nemesis story wise. Now, on the whole, nemesis rocked, I thought it was really cool visually and was a movie to rememeber.

Of course the end made me sad....

 

LOTR: FOTR was just too long for me. I don't know how i am going to handle the 3 hours of The Two Towers, but i hear that it is extremely action packed so that will be cool.

 

Well I agree with PixelMagic on the LOTR sucks thing...

 

Brent: Be that as it may, the movie was terrible. Besides, even though the authors of that series wrote a great story to tie up all the loose ends, it seems pretty clear that the writers of the movie did not have any of that in mind.
However, I certainly agree that some of the novels were excellent reading. I've read a whole bunch (well, not that series) and enjoyed every one. I think I've read almost Trek as Star Wars... Well, almost... And in all cases, the novels were just awesome.

LOTR... Now how "sucks" could go in any sentence with that movie is astonishing to me. I thought that movie was absolutely incredible. And, again, there were a lot of CGI but only where it was needed. And, for the most part, the effects were seamless, so they didn't look fake. They took that huge fat guy from Sliders and made him 4 feet tall - and in most cases it was impossible to see the effect!

 

foxbatkllr, Pixel, how can you guys sleep at night knowing you insulted one of the greatest stories ever told. The LOTR trilogy is without question compairable to Star Wars. Just because you guys don't like it doesn't mean it sucks, because it doesn't..it's a fact.

 

LOTR movies just drag on too much. Now, I haven't seen the Two Towers yet, but I did see FOTR. My sister just got back from The Two Towers and loved it. Everyone, including my girlfriend is trying to get me to go. They've gone so far as to tell me I need to see a movie "just to watch the effects" If I want to watch a movie "just for the effects" I'll watch the Star Wars prequels....bwaaa ha ha ha.

 

Now, I LOVED FOTR, but The Two Towers did indeed suck. Quite painful to watch, actually.
-Lokmer