CT So are the stormtroopers clones or what ??

All I know is that there is no indication that any of the storm troopers in the OT are clones. I don't get any indication of that anyway. I used the Hidalgo quote from Rebels because as far as the show is concerned, there are no clones being utilized as storm troopers. And this show is what leads us into the OT itself. Where if going just by films, there doesn't seem to be any indicators that say clones are being utilized. No mention of them, no sight of them. If clones are being utilized then I guess to some people that may be true. I don't have a problem with clones as storm troopers. I just don't see any reason for me to think they are in the OT. As far as Rebels is concerned, the makers of this show have really wanted to set some distance from it and TCW. According to Dave Filoni, he wanted to make Rebels its own thing and not be a straight continuation of TCW.

 

The closest thing to an indication that one of the ANH troopers was a clone - was in AOTC commentary - a statement that the scene where Jango bangs his head while getting into his ship, was put in specifically as a reference to the scene in ANH where a trooper bangs his head on a door frame.

 

I remember that being said. I mean I don't think there shouldn't be clones, it just seems like there are none. When Lucas changed Fetts voice in TESB, I thought he should have done that with the storm troopers to give it that continuity. But if he did that people might have complained because they would say why do the Jango clones suck at fighting now as opposed to them in the clone wars? Because they were excellent soldiers in the PT but what happened in the OT with them? But all that I say doesn't exclude them from not being there though.

 

There's also a quote from the old Episode 3 set diaries where Hidalgo straight out asks Lucas if the Stormtroopers are clones. Lucsa says yes. However, Lucas also goes on to make a joke that they probably aren't all Jango clones though. Ordinary people prob made clones to send off to fight as well.

I think that once again since Lucas has allowed others to play in his sandbox, he has given those "others" a little bit of free reign.

Rebels makes no sense in that they would have to train a lot more than just squads of 4 to 6 kids to come up with the millions of stormtroopers needed across the galaxy. Also, the recruits get, what I think, is too individualized attention for an army of grunts and throw-a-ways that are used like cannon fodder to run face first into hallways of laser fire.

 

No those kids in the episode Breaking Ranks were being tested for force sensitivity. There was a scene where the imp officer was going to recommend some to the inquisitor. I would assume that they are looking for more force sensitive people to train in the dark side as inquisitors. That is why the officers were not endorsing teamwork and just individuality. I also don't believe standard trooper training required what those kids were doing by jumping on moving platforms and such. Because if you watch the troopers in that show and even the films itself, you never see the troops utilize that kind of ability when in combat.

 

Hmm, I will have to go back and watch it, but, I was under the impression they were Academy Cadets being trained to be stromtroopers. The officers were told to keep a look out for those students who stood out from the rest during the course of the standard testing, and then tested for force sensitivity after the fact.

Edit: Andy Wylde

I just re-watched the first minute of that episode and the Imperial Officer gives a speech in which he says that they enter as children and leave as soldiers, and that they will be trained to become stormtroopers...

In fact here ya go:

 

I think they were just lying about them becoming troopers. I believe they didn't want to let on about what was really happening.

 

I just got done watching the entire episode again and there was the part that had the imp officer stating to the inquisitor that cadets Kell and Morgan(Ezra) meet his special requirements.

 

Right, like I said, they were going through normal training but the officers were told to keep an eye out for stand outs, hence the "special requirements".

They weren't there to be specifically screened, they were there to be trained as stormies, but, in that process if the trainers found cadets that seemed to stand out among the rest of the group then the inquisitor was notified.

 

Yeah after watching the episode I started to realize some of that too. I only watched the episode once before today. So I was just going off of what I remembered more than what I knew or what was actually there. I also seen another group of cadets in the beginning with a storm trooper talking to them. I guess they use the training to weed out regular cadets and force sensitive cadets. The question I raise is, why would the inquisitor be notified about storm trooper cadets that meet his special requirements? I would understand maybe notifying Kallus of some good cadets, but the inquisitor? And what are those "special requirements"? I would only assume that the inquisitor would be searching for potential force users to be trained as new inquisitors or some other force related reason. Because as we already know the inquisitors job is to find or track down existing Jedi. And I would assume that the inquisitor under orders from Vader or Sidious or both, want to find force sensitive beings.

That is the reasons I have come up with regarding this. But when the inquisitor was notified about these individuals and special requirements were brought up, that made me realize there is more than meets the eye to what exactly was going on regarding the 2 cadets in question.

 

The Stormtroopers in ANH sound similar, not the same. This is due to the fact the voices are heard through an in helmet mic. There may be some clones amongst the ranks but that is all.

 

They do sound the same, the two making small talk by the tractor beam controls have the same exact voice, I guess they could be twins but that is unlikely.

While the show may not have clones does not mean that is the case with the films. Rebels is not a lead in for the films, it is just a sponoff that takes place between the PT and OT. Spinoffs like TCW series often change stuff around to adapt the story of the films to a TV series format. Many TV shows based on movies have to change stuff to fit a series format. Filloni is also a huge EU fan who pursued Lucas to include lots of EU elements into TCW, even when it contradicts the films. Both Rebels and TCW contradict the films many times which is ok since they are spinoffs and they should be looked at separately from the films on their own terms. There is nothing in the films to indicate that stormtroopers are recruits. They are never shown with their helmits off to show if they are clones or recruits. They bump their heads like Jango did, wear white armor like the clones, Leia tells Luke he is short for a stormtrooper which implies the standard height of clones, all of them having the same exact voice, etc points to clones. That is besides the old 1978 article stating Stormtroopers are clones and describes what we see in AOTC. The idea of them being recruits was from the old early Marvel spinoff comics that got alot of details wrong.

Boba is a direct copy of Jango who was also rasied by him, and should have the same voice pattern as him, while the clone troops are modified clones and not exact copies of Jango. Newer generations of clones would be even futher removed from Jango since he can't train them anymore being dead and all. They changed the voices of the battle droids from TPM to ROTS, in TPM they have deeper pitch, emotionless voices and they even had individual voices. If B1 battle droids can have individual voices then clones certainally should be able too. In ROTS they made the battle droid vocies higher pitiched and made them behave comically, yet no one questions if they still are droids or not. Using the same logic people apply to Stormtroopers, you could say in ROTS they are no longer battle droids but alien recruits wearing armor that makes them look like B1 battle droids to explain why they sound and behave differently from TPM. Or that they are cyborgs with organic brains instead of a control signal, whatever. It makes just as much sense. Of course a big difference is that Stormtroopers still behave the same as they did in the PT films, especailly post 66 when we seem them subjecting people in the background.
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There are many times in the OT films that Stormtroopers didn't suck, they were crack shots mowing down the rebels onborad the Tantive IV and on Hoth, even on Endor. It was the Ewokes who saved the rebels' sorry butts. Obi-Wan remarked to Luke about the precise blaster hits by the Sandtroopers on the Jawa sandclawer. The stormtroopers purposely missed the heros onborad the Death Star to let them escape so they could be tracked to the rebel base. In fact if you watch the PT films, they never used the term clonetrooper onscreen, Lucas called them stormtroopers writing those films but LFL marketing came up with the term clonetroopers to make EU fans happy. However that didn't stop Lucas from ordering Hasbro to give all the Stormtrooper figures clone heads, and Lego has recently gave their minifigures Jango clone heads too which goes against Filloni. There is just alot of contradicting info out there. Rebels and Filloni are not the final answer on this but another conflicting voice in this mess. I just don't want to see people uses spinoff stuff to change the films which is what Disney, the story group, and Filloni seem to be doing.

 

I didn't recall such a thing, but I looked it up, and you're right.


Compared to that article from 1978, the description of the Stormtrooper (right down to the body glove) has remained eerily similar at this point.

I always found this very interesting, and I wonder if this in fact came from Lucas; if not, that's quite the coincidence. They even predicted the Snowtrooper armor as well. There's one part that doesn't line up exactly, though; "early models of the spacesuit can still be found at century-old battle sites." Obviously, Stormtroopers and their Republic predecessors don't go back that far. But it's funny that Dengar uses recycled parts from Snowtrooper armor. Maybe there was more to that than just a behind the scenes shortcut.

Though making sense of that "century-old" comment might not be that hard to fit into the current timeline: the Mandalorian and Clone/Stormtrooper backstories seem to have been consolidated since the prequels where it's appropriate (Boba was originally conceived as a Stormtrooper). They could easily play that off as a reference to Mandalorian armor, which is a close relative to the Clone and Stormtrooper armor.

To me, it seems that Lucas wanted us to believe that Stormtroopers were simply the next evolution in the Clonetrooper line. When watching the movies from II-IV, there's nothing to suggest that at some point, they just stopped using clones because they were too individualistic.

 

The 2007 version of the figure also lists stormtroopers being clones on the back card. http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/3...html#tn3=0/imperial-stormtrooper-card-details

Plus the removeable helmets showing a clone head on the 2007 and later stormtroopers and pilots.

 

"Rebels" leads into ANH and ties into TFA, where we see that there isn't a clone in Finn.

 

They aren't weeding out anything. The kids are just going through normal training. Once the training is over they graduate stromtrooper school. All that is happening is that the trainers/officers are told to keep an eye out for those kids that perform exceptionally well and stand out among the others because it might be an indicator that they are Force sensitive.

That's exactly what the officers/trainer are suppose to look out for, Force sensitivity. During the course of normal training, they are looking for those cadets that complete the training so well it hints at them being Force Sensitive. In the one obstacle, one of the kids asks Ezra how he is doing so well, that it seemed like he knew what platforms were going to extend out before they actually did. If the kid notices this, then rest assured the trainers notice, and that is one of the "special requirements". Obviously Ezra is using the force to tell where to jump too, however, Ezra (and Kanan) don't realize that this will trigger a call to the Inquisitor because it is his job to find the "children of the Force". So this is just the normal average stormtrooper training, but, when a kid performs so well that it points to the possibility that they might be Force Sensitive, that's when the Inquisitor is called.

 

Yeah Mike that is what I meant by weeding out. I didn't mean it in the sense that that was the process itself. Just that is what happens when they do happen to find one or more out of the bunch. I agree with you what you said about the training. I thought it was different at first until I watched it again and seen what you were talking about specifically. By weeding them out I meant that as it just occurs as to it being the actual process.

 

rebels is canon.

 

The answer is that some of them are Jango clones and some of them are normal people. While Lucas has gone back and forth, I remember an interview where he said that. It was the most recent instance where he commented on that subject.

And like has been said earlier here, the trooper who bangs his head is CANONICALLY a Jango clone. That is why Lucas had Jango bang his head, and later even confirmed this. The trooper in question also doesn't speak, so in-universe we can assume that he would've spoken in Temuera Morrison's voice. It's just a happy coincidence that he was silent, and Lucas didn't have to go back and change his voice like Boba's.

So we can assume that there are plenty of other clones around during OT times, but they are just the ones we don't hear speak.

 

Actually it was.

In January 1978 to be precise - a magazine called Star Wars Poster Monthly, (which this site actually has scans of) described them as clones.

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The Stormtrooper part of that issue:​

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http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post4-03.jpg​

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Recently, in interviews about Rebels, people like Dave Filoni and Pablo Hidalgo explained the changeover.

 

That "one DVD later" spans two decades in-universe, which is why it seems that the galaxy has changed dramatically.

Iron_lord has a great point above. Also in the BF2 story-mode, a member of the 501st explains that the clone template for stormtroopers was expanded upon because having a single template makes the Empire too vulnerable to sabotage.

 

There really wasn't much of an indication back in the day. There were only obscure sources that had the clone backstory (which may have possibly been conceived by Lucas at this time). Meanwhile, the Expanded Universe took off in its own direction in the years after. Lucas personally didn't believe it to be a part of HIS canon, but still respected it and let it live on. It's clear that Lucas had intentions of the Stormtroopers being the Jango clones we see in the PT, but seemingly due to the existing "canon" at the time, it was consolidated into a mix of Clones and recruits.

 

thread implosion. evacuate.

 

They are both Veteran Fett clones, and non clone Human recruits. An EU source states an Imperial-era Commander Cody as despiseing the recruits and wish that more Fett clones were still around.