PT So Obi-Wan defeated Darth Maul and Darth Vader (in his prime!) what does that say about him?

This is one of the reasons I like that Darth Maul got killed. It gave Obi wan a big win, which for me at the time seemed much needed, after seeing him get cut down by Darth Vader in episode 4.

 

Yes. If you go to the Dark Side for an easy, fast power upgrade, you have to take and manage its disadvantages too. So being angry all the time gives you more power without need to meditate for decades? Fine, but don't go whining when you lose a fight because you are angry all the time.

And Obi-wan had gone through a dreadful experience. His padawan had just fallen to the Dark Side, become a Sith Lord, and destroyed the Jedi Order, children included. He was just as traumatized as Anakin or more, but he could manage those emotions.

 

he chopped both of them to pieces and yet they both came back to haunt him with their personal vendettas

 

In both cases Obi Wan is catching his opponents off-guard.
When I think how Obi Wan defeats Darth Maul and Darth Vader,I remember the Emperor/Darth Sidious,smiling,while
telling Anakin about Jedis:
"we will catch them off-balance" . Obi Wan catches Darth Maul,Darth Vader and General Griveous off-balance.

 

I personally feel that bringing Darth Maul back was a bad writing decision - seriously, he survives after being cut in half and the same kind of fall that killed Palpatine in RotJ?! - so I've always chosen to pretend this never happened. As for not killing Vader, this is not so much a failure to finish a fight as a conscious decision not to kill Anakin - I'm sure Obi-Wan could have finished Anakin off if he had truly wanted to.

I think Obi-Wan's defeat of Maul and Vader are testaments to his mental strength and resilience - he may not be as strong a fighter as either of them, but he knows he has to survive and he cannot count on help, and so he finds strength to hold out until Maul and Vader make costly mistakes.

 

Don't underestimate Obi-Wan unless you don't know what is good for you.

 

It means that Obiwan is Snoke.



Maul is only alive after the fight with Obiwan in the Disney canon, NOT the movie canon. He's also alive in the EU canon. We have three separate canons to enjoy, and while the EU and Disney canons are separately enjoyable, I only really follow movie canon + use the Disney/EU canons for explanations and to fill in NECESSARY gaps.

 

I think more than anything it shows the arrogance of the Sith, and that Obi-wan has the patience to exploit it.

 

This. Obi Wan was in very bad situation in TPM. He got lucky because he didn’t fall and in the same time Maul couldn't kill him in that position. He got only one chance: take the lightsaber of his master quickly and finish Maul. If he couldn't do that, he was lost. I’m not saying that in this situation anybody could do anything different, but truly it was more luck than skills that brought him to victory.
In the duel in Mustafar all was too complicated for both of the fighters because they knew very well each other, practically every movement and ways of fight. That's why the duel is atypical, they use more brute strength than Jedi tricks because is personal for both of them. So Obi Wan is a capable Jedi and a skilled fighter but his bigger advantage is his intelligence, he always says: ‘Use the Force. Think’ (a difference from his own master who thinks that it better not to think to feel the will of the Force)
What I dislike in Obi Wan is paradoxically the fact that he is the ideal Jedi and I completely agree that he is the ideal Jedi: apart from his qualities that I like (intelligence, humor, loyalty, etc) I dislike the fact that he is too stick to the rules and he always thinks that the goal justifies the means (even lying to a friend is acceptable in that aspect, as in the case of Luke of OT). And this concentration in the goals makes him practically merciless: yes, he didn't finish Anakin, but he went to Mustafar without thinking about the consequences on Padme, in OT he tried to convince Luke to kills his own father for the same purpose: Vader and the Emperor should be destroyed in all cost.
But this is because the Jedi I like are too strange and atypical: Anakin, Qui Gon.

 

It's kind of funny now hearing Obi-Wan remark in ANH "In my experience there is no such thing as luck." seeing how most of his PT victories come about.

Perhaps it is "will of the force", Obi-Wan seems to want to do what is asked of him by the force more than Jedi like Anakin.

 

It doesn't matter if he beats Anakin or not, because as anyone knows Anakin would have been the most powerful Jedi, if he never got handicapped. Now Sidious is the only powerful force user, with Luke having the same force potential as his father.

 

It means that Obi-Wan is unnaturally good at the game King of the Hill.

 

This,exactly. Even in the (now non-canon) novels after this, it;s said that Vader was "between worlds", and at probably the only vulnerable point he could be. No longer a Jedi, but still not skilled in the ways of the Dark Side and Sith. He was basically an emotionally unstable, raging Force user at this point, not following any of the logic of the Jedi or the cold evil of the Sith. just a raging machine of destruction. Even so, Kenobi was still on the defensive til he played Anakin's biggest flaw against him - his arrogance.

 

Vader wasn't in his prime back in RoTS. He doesn't become a true master of the Force just before Rebels. Plus, in TCW, Maul got the better of him each time.

 

I'm not sure if it's established canon, but I rank him 3rd best behind Mace Windu and Yoda in the Jedi Order. He deserved the Maul win (he should have stayed dead) and also defeated a mentally unstable Vader and 4-lightsaber-wielding Greivous. However, styles make fights and his defensive duelling was useless against Count Dooku on every occasion. I'd have liked to see him be more offensive every now and then to spice things up, but that wouldn't be true to his character.

 

He also killed General Grievous. That was no easy feat.

Obi-Wan makes the most of every situation we see him in rising to the challenge. He's always in over his head, but doesn't give up. Just when his opponent thinks they beat him and get the slightest bit cocky, Obi-Wan turns the tables on them.

He is the ideal Jedi.

 

He sacrificed himself because he thought he could be more help to Luke as a Force ghost than alive. I don't think Obi-Wan ever intended to win their fight aboard the Death Star. Vader had to remain alive so Luke could redeem him.

 

PWNbi-Wan Kenobi?

 

It means he's the best.

 

Obi-Wan defeats Maul even though Maul had the "High Ground."
WTH?

 

It means that both Obi Wan and Form III are the best.

 

Force skill:
Yoda: 10/10
Anakin 10/10
Mace 9/10
Obi Wan 9/10
Dooku 8/10
Palpatine 10/10

Lightsaber skill

Yoda 9/10
Palpatine 8/10
Mace 11/10
Anakin 10/10
Obi Wan 9/10
Dooku 9.5/10

 

Hardly.

I find some of his decision making to he dubious at best.

He cruelly leaves Anakin to burn rather than saving him or killing him. Remember he was charged by Yoda earlier in ROTS to destroy the Sith. Obi knows the threat that Anakin posed to the galaxy if he was left alive, so he failed his mission by not killing Anakin.

Not to mention his blatant outright lies to Luke in A New Hope, when Luke asks him about his father.

It seems to me that neither Yoda or Obi where ever planning on telling the truth to Luke about Anakin, had not Luke confronted Vader in Empire.

Also imo Obi is just rigid and inflexible as a teacher, he just doesn't understand that both Anakin care more about people rather than abstract things like the force. His inflexibility is part of the reason why Anakin fell and why Luke nearly fell too.

Luke was able to redeem Anakin cuz of his love for his father rather than Obi and Yodas flawed teachings.

 

Losing to Dooku who is considered the greatest duelest among Yoda/Mace/Palps does not make a "level or two" below the top Jedi and Sith. STYLES MAKE FIGHTS. Obi-wans defensive style had no way of penetrating Dooku's defenses so he was mince meat 10/10 times they fought. I would argue Obi-Wan would have a decent chance against Mace Windu as his style favors against Mace much better.

 

You make great points, but I want to point out that a perfect lightsaber duelist knows how to change styles against different opponents. I doubt Obi Wan could beat Mace Windu, since not even Palpatine could, and Obi Wan would absolutely lose to Palpatine. The aggression of Vapaad could probably penetrate Obi Wan's defensive style, much more than Anakin's Djem So.
I think Palpatine is a little below Windu with lightsaber skill, but way above him with the force.