SOS - SON OF SKYWALKER : YOU (THE FANS) ARE MY ONLY HOPE!! SAVE ME... (Spoilers)

I personally still find Luke's victory over Vader hard to believe in RotJ.

*** Why? I suppose I can guess, but I think that in ROTJ you were also seeing a Luke that was using that quick power that the Darkside could give. He was on the upswing in terms of the Darkside's influence. He was also younger and healtier than Vader, so I don't have a problem with him being able to defeat him. Vader's thoughts were already tainted from what they used to be too, he was on a retreating path from the Darkside. He'd already been shown to be in conflict over his son. He wasn't connecting the way he normally would. I like to think he knew that Palps intended to replace him with Luke and a part of him was committing suicide by proxy to get out of his dilemma. He could keep the Emperor from killing his son, ensure Luke was a Sith, and pay for his crimes all at the same time. Or maybe not.

 

Eh maybe the Prequels have spoiled me but it took me a goodly long time to accept Luke could be as great a warrior as Anakin Skywalker whom not only is the "Son of the Suns" whom had all that cybernetic hardware

(RPG wise it states cybernetics interfere with force use to a certain extent as they disrupt the bodies natural rhythms-I'm not sure I agree with it)

but also whom is by nature a creature of the Dark Side so using the Dark Side against a Sith Lord isn't really that smart.
Then again you do make some very good points...

or maybe its just really that awful fall Vader took in the final part of it. Prose really screwed up there.

Re: The divine birth issue

I understand Lucas's point here. To Lucas the idea of the temptations of Christ (and other mythological figures of the divine) is meaningless without the possibility of failure. I admit I believed young Anakin more than older Anakin as a divine being (though he fits perfectly the role of a Greek demigod rather than Judeo-Christian). Anakin is an excercise in the idea of that failure.

I also think it certainly props LUKE up and oddly Leia since without a stuffy biological Grandfather but only the Force now they really ARE unquestionably the most powerful Jedi (Aaron Allstons completely attacked and taken less than seriously point nonwithstanding).

The Skywalkers are firmly set above other Jedi and Luke's only competition is now Jacen I'm happy to say

 

I'll give a big cronker post later since I'm really lazy right now--but I'll just say that I love Halloween and all these cool new icons. I also love The Phantom of the Opera (the book, music) very much so I was glad to see this icon.

I'll probably change my icon tomorrow though. So many icons! I could have one for every day. So this message will be meaningless...

Ciao

 

Spoiler space
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Skywalker's Son
Thanks all, for the spoilers! I'm VERY pleased that Luke survives the NEW JEDI ORDER. Yahoo!!!!!

Yes, I am too, SS, but isn't it sad that as Luke fans about all we have to be happy and excited about with this series (except for Ben's birth) is that Luke survived??? I was hoping for so much more when I bought Vector Prime four years ago!

Yeah, it's disappointing that Jacen will gets the big kill. We've known it all along, but I guess I kept hoping that we'd get a miracle and our guy would get the spotlight in the last book. Even though there were 19 books, we never did get a Luke book.

I know. It's really disappointing that not even *one* book was really a Luke book! In 19 books, there should have been *at least* one!!!!

I hope we get a lot of TUF from Luke's point of view!

If Luke gets to kill Shimmra in a valiant battle all by his lonesome though, that will at least be something.

Yes, *if* he gets to do it alone. I'm afraid that's a *big* "if"!

I'm with whoever said that Omini was no surprise. I just shrugged my shoulder when I saw that spoiler. I saw that coming.

That was me, and I did too.

I hope all the VOng get a push out of the galaxy at the end, or a free ride out on Zonoma Sekot!

LOL! I wouldn't mind that myself! I know the Shamed Ones get to go on Zonama Sekot, but I don't know what happens to the others.
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

End spoilers .

Charlemagne 19:
However Luke's relationship with Callista and later Akkanah (Good Force, a one night stand with a witch!?)

I think you're speaking to SS, but as *I* said, C, I find ways to interpret those that don't include physical sex. I know, I'm being naive, but since I don't really like the ladies in question, I choose to read those scenes differently than I think most people do. It works for me!

In any case I prefer not to get snappish about Jacen, Leia, let alone Anakin because they may or may not be stealing Luke's thunder.

Speaking for myself, I get upset when Luke is not given the same treatment as Jacen, Leia, Corran, Kyp, Jaina, etc., who have used the Force in anger, hatred, or revenge, but are not forever villified for it in almost every book as he is. Even in DW, during the Jedi Ceremony, they had Luke dress Zekk "because he knew the dark side" or something like that. That constant darkside referencing *does* annoy me. Dark side references aren't brought up with anyone else, only with Luke. The authors never give the poor guy any slack when he experiences a normal human emotion.

This is an endless cycle of pity for Luke which he does NOT need.

I have to say that I feel pity for Luke is in order for most of his portrayals in the NJO. Luke has definitely been diminished, disrespected, and made to look foolish quite a few times.

I personally still find Luke's victory over Vader hard to believe in RotJ.

Why? Vader and the Emperor said he was powerful. We know he probably is as powerful as his father was in the Force. He had time to grow and learn between TESB and ROTJ. Judge him by his size do you?

True BUT Luke was there a little while and frankly after that he dissapeared for X amount of years without so much as a holocom. Its unlikely but I would have liked the little ragamuffin to have been Lukes.

It could have been an interesting story line, but in a family-friendly universe (Or what *used* to be a family friendly universe anyway) an illegitimate child would be inappropriate.

I still say their relationship had to have been at least intimate in some manner for Ackbar and Mothma to have known about it.

I *did* find that strange.

Were the Emperor actually interested in Leia beyond possessing Anakin's little boy he'd probably have simply held her prisoner and done all sorts of unspeakable things to Han and comp

 

[I think you're speaking to SS, but as *I* said, C, I find ways to interpret those that don't include physical sex. I know, I'm being naive, but since I don't really like the ladies in question, I choose to read those scenes differently than I think most people do. It works for me!]

RPGing losers discuss the sex lives of Star Wars characters....

Me: Mara Jade

Kyle: If you want what everyone has had.

Me: She's a redhead, I can't resist.

Chris: Then go for Shira Brie! EVERYONE is a redheaded green eyed in Star Wars. Daala by the way.

Kyle: You have the weirdest obsession with female flag officers.

Me: I'll take Shira Brie when I need to hug a suit of armor.

Kyle: In any case what I've gotta wonder about is why people are still pretending Star Wars if family friendly.

Me: It is though...kinduv.

Kyle: Barbara....ho....Hambly.

Chris: He's got a point, I still have nightmares about her depictions of Han.

me: I admit Corran Horn's bestiality sort of ruined any notions that Star Wars wasn't innocent family.

Kyle: Furry, not bestiality

Me: Uhh...right Kyle.

Chris: Its a dang shame too, they should divide the stories up by mature label and give everyone something to bite on.

Me: Perhaps, save me from having to read about Tahari torture.

Chris: She wasn't tortured, it was a dream.

Me: Now whose in denial.

Chris: I have it on hand that there's a guy who claims Mara dies in the Unifying Force and Tahari and Luke kiss...admittadly a weak one but its a start.

Me: Your making that up!

Kyle: Whatever, I'm DMing tonight. We're playing "The Randy adventures of Princess Leia"

Me: Woah look at the time...

Chris: I agree, wanna catch Kill Bill?

Kyle: ITS A JOKE TITLE YOU MORONS!

[Speaking for myself, I get upset when Luke is not given the same treatment as Jacen, Leia, Corran, Kyp, Jaina, etc., who have used the Force in anger, hatred, or revenge, but are not forever villified for it in almost every book as he is. Even in DW, during the Jedi Ceremony, they had Luke dress Zekk "because he knew the dark side" or something like that. That constant darkside referencing *does* annoy me. Dark side references aren't brought up with anyone else, only with Luke. The authors never give the poor guy any slack when he experiences a normal human emotion.]

I sadly take it that only Luke takes the perils of the Dark Side and pure spiritual enlightment as a Jedi master seriously. Corran, Mara, and the rest of the company hardly dare approach the prequel Era Jedi's level of self-enlightenment while Luke strives to emanate it.

[I have to say that I feel pity for Luke is in order for most of his portrayals in the NJO. Luke has definitely been diminished, disrespected, and made to look foolish quite a few times.]

Actually aside from the comics and Splinter of the Minds Eye (where we constantly are hearing how much he wants Leia) I cannot think of any single book where Luke doesn't get something poor happen to him...maybe shadows of the Empire. Even in the Thrawn Trilogy though he had sucky moments.

[Judge him by his size do you?]

If I did, poor Mark Hamil I'd have difficulty believing could beat me in a Fight.

[It could have been an interesting story line, but in a family-friendly universe (Or what *used* to be a family friendly universe anyway) an illegitimate child would be inappropriate.]

As you may have guessed I think we're fairly long past this moment. Shatterpoint shows adult oreintated Star Wars can be very good and at least teenager level PG-13 X-Wing books. Besides I'm still begging for a bloody KISS in the Jedi apprentice books between a pair of adults deeply in love! (I don't have much hope for Obi Wan and his contemporary Siri)

[I *did* find that strange.]

Maybe Ackbar and Mothma are just really dirty gossip mongers.

[Since he *was* interested in her little boy, I'm surprised he *didn't* hold her prisoner so he could have the child when he was born.]

Adarlic Brandl in the RPG fiction story "One Last Bow" I think was what it w

 

Hi guys! Sorry I'm mostly awol atm!

Only really got the time for this page, I fear!

actually its what I normally would expect of Luke Skywalker. However Luke's relationship with Callista and later Akkanah (Good Force, a one night stand with a witch!?) did give me the impression that Luke wasn't idealogically opposed to sex before marriage. In that case I definately would think that in wartime, when Luke was less mature, and so forth that he would possibly become lovers with Shira Brie whom loved him sincerely before well....Luke condemned her to a living Hell as half-machine by shooting her down
I follow C.S. Lewis' belief a permanent bond is established between a man and a woman by the intimate act and I'd like to think of such between Shira Brie and Gariel.

Nice one, Charles, and I agree with Lewis' comments too. That's in The Screwtape Letters iirc, along with other writings (? can't remember?). TSL is a personal favourite of mine...

I still say their relationship had to have been at least intimate in some manner for Ackbar and Mothma to have known about it.

A good point.

It took me a decade and a half to recognize that my identity was shaped by my father rather than dozens of other role models. Jacen Skywalker is obviously deeply interested in the Force and its intricacies and while I wanted to smack the obnoxious little snot for constantly correcting Luke early on in the NJO I realize that Jacen was just trying to impress his uncle with his (nonexistent) knowledge like I used to do.

In the Young Jedi Knight series Jacen whom hadn't been on that many adventures lives to impress Luke and emanate him. His overconfidence about the Force and what the Force means is probably from the fact Jacen thinks his adventures with the Diversity Alliance, Black Sun's remanent, and the Shadow Academy left him feeling he was on par with his Uncle as a full fledged Jedi. Jacen unfortunately is more or less what Ben might turn out to be provided Luke isn't alittle more firm to keep evil Sith Chickens from him.

Totally agreed.

When the Diversity Alliance was playing anti-alien sentiment they became a massive voter block across galaxy and while the group itself was dissolved with Borsk never a member, he rode the wave of anti-human prejudice and also reparations against humans (notice how the Senate is almost entirely alien in Ruin?) to get himself elected. Elegos Akai and Cal Omas mixed with Mon Calamari's quarren represenative gave Borsk also incredible legitamacy by appealing to the victems of the most visible victems of the Empire.

As Cal unfortunately illustrated, Borsk didn't need the galaxy's votes. He just needed the Senates

Good reasoning again, Charles! I'd not seen that pattern!

To Lucas the idea of the temptations of Christ (and other mythological figures of the divine) is meaningless without the possibility of failure. I admit I believed young Anakin more than older Anakin as a divine being (though he fits perfectly the role of a Greek demigod rather than Judeo-Christian). Anakin is an excercise in the idea of that failure.

I also think it certainly props LUKE up and oddly Leia since without a stuffy biological Grandfather but only the Force now they really ARE unquestionably the most powerful Jedi (Aaron Allstons completely attacked and taken less than seriously point nonwithstanding).

The Skywalkers are firmly set above other Jedi and Luke's only competition is now Jacen I'm happy to say

And again, nice read

Hmm, I have to admit to not being fond of the 'divine birth of Anakin Skywalker' idea, tbt. I tend to ignore it, personally.

I know. It's really disappointing that not even *one* book was really a Luke book! In 19 books, there should have been *at least* one!!!!

AGREED!

Speaking for myself, I get upset when Luke is not given the same treatment as Jacen, Leia, Corran, Kyp, Jaina, etc., who have used the Force in anger, hatred, or revenge, but are not forever villified for it in almost

 

Charlemagne19:
Me: Mara Jade
Kyle: If you want what everyone has had.

Stars! What a *nasty* thing to say about Mara!

Me: I'll take Shira Brie when I need to hug a suit of armor.

LOL!

I sadly take it that only Luke takes the perils of the Dark Side and pure spiritual enlightment as a Jedi master seriously. Corran, Mara, and the rest of the company hardly dare approach the prequel Era Jedi's level of self-enlightenment while Luke strives to emanate it.

It never fails to amaze me how you can make lemonade out of poor Luke's lemons. It's the *authors* of course, who keep bringing up the darkside with Luke, and I don't think they do it to proclaim him as the only one who embodies the spiritual enlightenment of the Jedi of old.

Actually aside from the comics and Splinter of the Minds Eye (where we constantly are hearing how much he wants Leia) I cannot think of any single book where Luke doesn't get something poor happen to him...maybe shadows of the Empire. Even in the Thrawn Trilogy though he had sucky moments.

I don't disagree with you. I was just hoping before reading VP that things would improve for Luke in a whole new series. As we know, things only got much worse!

Well, I think it's rather poor to have Obi-wan take over for him in a fight and to fall in love with his sister as in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. And in Shadows of the Empire he had some psychological issues after learning about his father, if I remember correctly, so Luke has always had bad things happen to him in novels. Still, wouldn't you think it's about time to break that bad habit?

As you may have guessed I think we're fairly long past this moment.

Sadly, I agree with you. Some of the violence in some of the NJO books, particularly in the Dark Tide duology and in Traitor was pretty graphic.

Maybe Ackbar and Mothma are just really dirty gossip mongers.

LOL!

Well the obvious answer is because Luke isn't Jacen's teacher first. Luke is Jacen's Uncle first, his friend, maybe even his father over Han first. Certainly Luke is a major shaping role in jacen's life but Vergere's relationship to Jacen is defined in Jacen's mind strictly as master/student not one of friendship, love, or affection.

I really like that answer. However, I still wish he would have referred to Vergere as "one of his teachers". Or better yet, as his tormentor!

Jacen (un)fortunately must contend with the fact that with Luke he'd never know whether what he learned from him was the result of his own moral values and reasonings or actually Luke's spiritual wisdom.

That's an interesting and thought-provoking comment!

i.e. Yoda was having them play with crayons.

LOL!

I honestly do think that the reason that authors refer to Vergere as Jacen's teacher is because its difficult to see Luke beyond his father/friend role to actual guide.

But until Vergere appeared on the scene, Jacen thought of Luke as his Master, his teacher, his guide, I think.

Obi Wan managed both but Yoda is more Luke's teacher because he kept it entirely within the bonds of teacher/apprentice.

Well, and Obi-wan was very likely a part of Luke's life for only a few days.

Borsk's scandal really only destroyed his reputation with the military anyway.

I see... I wonder what happened to Gavrisom though?

Interpretations to Balance to the Force. Lucas has said the destruction of the Jedi was just an unintended consequence of Anakin's actions while only Vader could destroy Palpatine (at that moment) his throwing him down the shaft was the important part not vader's evil

Yes, but, as I keep saying, Palpatine was not really destroyed. And, don't you think that the temporary incapacitation of one Dark Lord was a rather poor return on the loss of 10,000 Jedi knights ?

Thus balance is a good thing

That kind of balance seems like a very *bad* thing!

1. Anakin Skywalker is the Force
Anakin was created to make th

 

However Luke's relationship with Callista and later Akkanah (Good Force, a one night stand with a witch!?) did give me the impression that Luke wasn't idealogically opposed to sex before marriage. \

Okay, in the case of Ahkanah, that was the decision of an individual Earth-dwelling human author, and it really made me boil. I don't care if you think me a prude for saying it!! In the case of Callista, that was only a vision she gave him (I suppose you could call it a vision, or some kind of dream) so it didn't exactly count.

For another thing, talking about the supposed intimate details of these SW characters lives is making me sick. I'm going to bash my head against the computer screen, I swear.

I follow C.S. Lewis' belief a permanent bond is established between a man and a woman by the intimate act and I'd like to think of such between Shira Brie and Gariel.

As C.S. Lewis was a Christian (later converted to Catholicism) I think he meant within the bounds of marriage..?

I think that it is plausible that people can bond BEFORE the intimate act also. To say otherwise is to say that we are slaves to our instincts.

Actually I think the comic makes it abundantly clear why Leia resisted the Emperor. Because the Emperor treated her like a little girl. "Help this old man onto his bed my pretty...", "I'm just a harmless old man.", "Come look at my shiny holocron dearie...". Leia tries to stand up against the Emperor and the man dispatches her with a single blast of force lighting and before that crushes her lightsaber.

If we're to regard ANYTHING of that trashbin worthy series "Star Wars Infinities" Leia does the same thing as Luke but unlike Luke is utterly dominated by Palpy.
Were the Emperor actually interested in Leia beyond possessing Anakin's little boy he'd probably have simply held her prisoner and done all sorts of unspeakable things to Han and company until she was broken....Leia just RAN like no tommorow when Palpy started his plans to corrupt her unlike Luke whom had the galaxy's best interests in mind.

Not bad, Charlemagne, I agree with you.

SPOILERS BEWARE!













Thanks all, for the spoilers! I'm VERY pleased that Luke survives the NEW JEDI ORDER. Yahoo!!!!! I was very afraid that he wouldn't! I don't trust DEL REY! Great news that we'll see Benny Boy again! I'm glad Han and Leia make it safely through the perils of the NEW JEDI ORDER too. Does anyone know about Mara?

I knew it I knew it! I'm so happy. See COW, SS, we told and told you that he would make it! I sincerely hope Mara will make it to. If she does I shall burn all NJO books in a giant funeral pyre and smear myself with mud and wail aloud.

I will be terribly upset.










SPOILERS NAMARIE

Hmm, I have to admit to not being fond of the 'divine birth of Anakin Skywalker' idea, tbt. I tend to ignore it, personally.

I do too, JK...

Maybe Ackbar and Mothma are just really dirty gossip mongers.



Actually aside from the comics and Splinter of the Minds Eye (where we constantly are hearing how much he wants Leia)

I LOVED Luke's characterization in SME. Smart, quick-thinking, a leader, not trailing after Leia or something (not that I don't love Leia's character too of course, but bless her heart she can be bossy).
As for the love issue, of course we all remember that this was written before ESB was in theaters. Even before ROTJ was a twinkle in Lucas' eye.

 

"This one i like better. In this case though, I would say that Luke and Leia were more the Chosen Ones who actually built up what was destroyed by the Darkside. Anakin just happened to be their father."

Pffht, except Anakin didn't writh on the ground like a sissy when the most powerful, evil darkforce user ever bitch slapped him with force lightening. Luke, and Leia for that matter, would be dead if not for Vader killing Palpatine, thus balancing the force in the process, and saving the rebel alliance at Endor.

The most powerful depiction of Vader's turn back into Anakin is shown in both the manga and the orgional marvel adaption. It's just as good stylistcally as the films IMO.

"And the final horror for Luke is the sight of his FATHER crawling back to the Emperor... like a dying animal returning to the feet of its master...

Until, suddenly, with a final surge of strength, he STANDS! Not to serve this being who has turned him from Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader... But to SEIZE him!

The merciless engery that had been killing Luke now arcs back to strike Vader! It rains over him, searing, scorching his great form... Yet STILL he staggers with his burden...

To the edge of the ABYSS!

Hurled by the giant, the Emperor pins helplessy donward into the void, bouncing, careening off the shaft's iron walls...

To EXPLODE in the dark oblivion somewhere below, sending the demoniac winds howling up out of the pit!

Winds that almost suck the huge warrior in after his former master... until the hand of his SON hauls him back. And both collapse...

Too spent, too weak to move.

Luke: "F-Father!"

The imagery that goes with this is perfect naturally.

TUF SPOILERS:



















I continue to evade TUF spoilers. Except that Boba shows up and saves Han. Luke kills Shimrra, and Leia kills Nom Anor. This was by accident I assure you. Other than that, I have no specifics on the story. It makes the wait even harder.

 

[Stars! What a *nasty* thing to say about Mara!]

My friend Kyle tends to take a rather vampish view about Mara Jade's service to the Emperor as an assassin, pointing out seduction can be an important part of it. Plus he doesn't believe her Lando story one bit. In any case I hardly find Mara's morality in question beyond well...being a assassin for the Empire and still worshipping the memory of one of the most Evil Men in Star Wars historyTM (In fact I'd go out on a limb and say THE most evil).

[It never fails to amaze me how you can make lemonade out of poor Luke's lemons. It's the *authors* of course, who keep bringing up the darkside with Luke, and I don't think they do it to proclaim him as the only one who embodies the spiritual enlightenment of the Jedi of old.]

Maybe its my ability to look on the bright side that makes me so fond of Anakin Skywalker and the Prequel Era Jedi. In any case I do think Walter J. Williams said it best that Luke as a Jedi Master is a hard character to write, he suspciously left out any of the other Jedi Knights from this particular point of reference I should mention.

[Well, I think it's rather poor to have Obi-wan take over for him in a fight and to fall in love with his sister as in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. And in Shadows of the Empire he had some psychological issues after learning about his father, if I remember correctly, so Luke has always had bad things happen to him in novels. Still, wouldn't you think it's about time to break that bad habit?]

Actually Obi Wan's appearence in a more direct manner would have been welcome and him taking over made the fight believable in my opinion. As much as I love Luke this is what the fight would have gone as without the "Damn fool idealistic crusader"

Luke Skywalker: You'll find I'm full of surprises.
Vader: Do you even know how to use that?
Luke: Yeah, the pointy end goes in the other guy.
Vader: *knocks away saber with one stroke*
Luke: Uh oh...

[I really like that answer. However, I still wish he would have referred to Vergere as "one of his teachers". Or better yet, as his tormentor!]

Once NJO is over it'll be interesting to see if Jacen discovers Vergere informed on him to Tsavong Lah or other developments. Once the constraints of the editors are off then it might be very interesting to see Jacen's character development. I can come up with excuses for his portrayal in the Force Heretic trilogy as well if you'd like that paints him in a rosier light too!

Example: Jacen was sensing Zonoma Seskot's connection to the Vong unconciously and knew his reverse engineering of Vong tech was not the true reason the Force had led them here.

[That's an interesting and thought-provoking comment!]

I'm also training to be a minister and do assistant work now...whom my congregation will never know the contents of my RPG sessions come weekend.

[But until Vergere appeared on the scene, Jacen thought of Luke as his Master, his teacher, his guide, I think.]
True but he'd reached the limit of what Luke could teach him also. Luke could not suceed in making Jacen a Jedi Knight until the point where he'd be ready to allow him to undergo Hell beyond all reckoning since a Jedi is forged in adversity not love. Luke would always protect Jacen, love him , and look out for him. For Jacen's particular mindset he needed to go beyond the peace, love, and comfort of his own idealistic world to try those ideals against the Wheel of Fire.
Vergere was defeated in Traitor's end when Jacen confronted her hypocrisy and the need for the Vong to be stopped. That was Luke Skywalker's influence as despite being tortured, ripped apart, decieved, and nearly murdered a dozen times over....he refused to renounce his status as a Jedi Knight or good/evil for pure knowledge. Such an incomprehensible stance to Vergere brought her away from the Darkness back to the Light....and made her in awe of what Luke had created.

Traitor was what Luke could not give Jacen, Traitor was Jacen's Trials to redeem a Jedi Knight from the pall of t

 

CHARLEMAGNE 19: I definately would think that in wartime, when Luke was less mature, and so forth that he would possibly become lovers with Shira Brie whom loved him sincerely before well....Luke condemned her to a living Hell as half-machine by shooting her down

She deserved it! She was one nasty woman! She was an Imperial plant. She had been deceiving Luke and pretending she was interested in him when all along she planned to kill him or ruin him or both. I agree with CHILDOFWINDS. I would prefer to think Luke never had a relationship with Shira Brie. I think he still had his heart set on Leia at that time anyway.

CHARLEMAGNE 19: The information was presumably provided by Del Ray.

Uh huh! I KNEW it! Vergere is their Mary Sue! Of course they would make her better than Luke, better than Obi-wan, better than Mace Windu, better than YODA!

CHARLEMAGNE 19: Sometimes there are radical choices amongst the Jedi. It used to be under West End Games rules using telekensis to batter someone to death or move a bomb was of the Dark Side...then the Shadow Bombs nixed that.

So then do they change the stats in cases like that?

CHARLEMAGNE 19: I've said my piece defending Dark Empire which is my favorite piece of EU as a Skywalker fan. I don't fault the comic for trying to give a GREAT storyline every bit as gloriously powerful and AWE inducing as the original Trilogy,

You did a decent job of defending it. Others have tried too. I just think it was bad for Luke and bad for RETURN OF THE JEDI and bad for Anakin Skywalker too. You were a worthy debater though. We'll just have to agree that we don't agree about DARK EMPIRE.

CHARLEMAGNE: In any case I prefer not to get snappish about Jacen, Leia, let alone Anakin because they may or may not be stealing Luke's thunder

I don't mind others getting their time in the sun as long as Luke isn't degraded or shoved down a few levels in order for them to look good, and as long as Luke is given a decent role too. Too often though, he is pushed down or aside and made to look stupid or 'dark' instead.

CHARLEMAGNE: This is an endless cycle of pity for Luke which he does NOT need.

How so when it seems he is being made less and less important to the STAR WARS saga?

CHARLEMAGNE: I personally still find Luke's victory over Vader hard to believe in RotJ.

Why do you say that? He had the FOrce as his ally and a powerful ally it is, you know!

Besides, Luke seduced Vader to the Light.

CHARLEMAGNE 19: Its unlikely but I would have liked the little ragamuffin to have been Lukes.

So would I! When I first read that book in the CORELLIAN TRILOGY, I was expecting Gaeriel to tell Luke the kid was his!

CHARLEMAGNE 19: I still say their relationship had to have been at least intimate in some manner for Ackbar and Mothma to have known about it.

Could be!

CHARLEMAGNE 19: Leia tries to stand up against the Emperor and the man dispatches her with a single blast of force lighting and before that crushes her lightsaber.

But he doesn't try to turn her to the Dark Side, and she was only partially trained which should have made her vulnerable to the Dark. At least, according to Obi-wan Kenobi and Yoda.

CHARLEMAGNE 19: If we're to regard ANYTHING of that trashbin worthy series "Star Wars Infinities" Leia does the same thing as Luke but unlike Luke is utterly dominated by Palpy.

What was this?

CHARLEMAGNE 19: With all do respect, I'm a much better author than many of these guys are

LOL!

CHARLEMAGNE 19: In any case I do think that Luke is the main influence on Jacen's life

I think he SHOULD be. That's why it grates when Jacen calls Vergere his teacher and shows her such respect, and believes everything SHE says. On the other hand, he didn't always believe what his uncle told him.

CHARLEMAGNE 19: Jacen Skywalker is obviously deeply interested in the Force

I think you mean Jacen SOLO!

CHARLEMAGNE 19: while I wanted

 

Hi everyone. Its been a while since I've check out this topic, one of my favorites, heck been a while since I checked out the forums itself. Been a few months, since Jan or Feb I think. Its good to see that there are several familiar faces still here So how have things been(in the fandom and in RL)? Luke and crew still getting the very short end of the stick?

Also what's this about Vergere being shown to be better then Yoda?!?! Don't tell me things with the bird have gotten that bad. First Luke and now Yoda?

Anyway I've just finished Knights of the Old Republic (one side quest refers, well describes a Vong craft on the Outer Rim which I thought was a nice touch to the NJO) and honestly its renewed my interest in Star Wars EU, that and playing Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy on the PC. The first thing I thought about was this topic, which I spent most of my time reading and these forums. Nice to be back.

Anyway I was thinking of picking up the NJO again for some reason. I've given myself some time away from it and I've cut other stressful things out of my life and now I kinda need something to fill the void so to speak.

I have renewed my interest in writing fan fiction and I'm going to start writing it again. I hope to have it up or at least some of it for others to read before or by December. Wish me luck. Getting a setting is a problem though. Either during the Tales, Knights of the Old Republic, or post-RoTJ but pre-NJO.

 

What bothered me about Remnant was that Jacen did everything. Why should the teenage grandson of Darth Vader be more acceptable to the Imperials than his son?

It occurs to me that it would most likely be taken as an insult- not deigning to deal with the Empire himself & sending his **** of a sixteen-year-old nephew in his stead.

I never actually noticed Jacen achieve anything, on the plus side. Despite all the unnecesarry praise heaped upon him from all quarters, he dosen't do anything innovative, or persuade anyone of anything.

What he does do is gather all the Vong infiltrators in one room where they can just turn on him with their stupid little meeting having gained them nothing (not even some conversation, really) . I mean, wouldn't the smart thing to do be to knock them out & put them in cells for interrogation? Okay, sure so they "immediately try to commit suicide", according to that intelligence guy, but I doubt the Imperials would have any qualms about chaining them upside down to the cell walls, making it somewhat more difficult.

 

Well, I think it's rather poor to have Obi-wan take over for him in a fight and to fall in love with his sister as in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. And in Shadows of the Empire he had some psychological issues after learning about his father, if I remember correctly, so Luke has always had bad things happen to him in novels. Still, wouldn't you think it's about time to break that bad habit?

But remember the author didn't know that Leia WAS Luke's sister, and probably thought Lucas' intent was for Luke to 'get the girl', not Han! Further, I have to admit I enjoyed that scene where Obi-Wan assists Luke...

Or better yet, as his tormentor!

LOL!

Well, and Obi-wan was very likely a part of Luke's life for only a few days.

Good point; but Yoda only a few weeks, iirc? Luke sure was a quick learner alright!

In this case though, I would say that Luke and Leia were more the Chosen Ones who actually built up what was destroyed by the Darkside. Anakin just happened to be their father.

I'd agree.

Welcome back, JK!

Tx, CoW!

Okay, in the case of Ahkanah, that was the decision of an individual Earth-dwelling human author, and it really made me boil. I don't care if you think me a prude for saying it!! In the case of Callista, that was only a vision she gave him (I suppose you could call it a vision, or some kind of dream) so it didn't exactly count.

Remember Luke and Callista's journeys in Darksaber though..? Things were implied there, iirc..?

As C.S. Lewis was a Christian (later converted to Catholicism) I think he meant within the bounds of marriage..?

Lewis' point was that the act itself he saw as creating a transcendental link between man and woman that must be either forever enjoyed or endured.

I LOVED Luke's characterization in SME. Smart, quick-thinking, a leader, not trailing after Leia or something (not that I don't love Leia's character too of course, but bless her heart she can be bossy).
As for the love issue, of course we all remember that this was written before ESB was in theaters. Even before ROTJ was a twinkle in Lucas' eye.

Agreed, DJV!

Pffht, except Anakin didn't writh on the ground like a sissy when the most powerful, evil darkforce user ever bitch slapped him with force lightening. Luke, and Leia for that matter, would be dead if not for Vader killing Palpatine, thus balancing the force in the process, and saving the rebel alliance at Endor.

And Vader would never have killed Palpatine, thus balancing the Force in the process (whatever that actually means) and saving the rebel alliance at Endor, if not for Luke's faith in his father.

In any case I do think Walter J. Williams said it best that Luke as a Jedi Master is a hard character to write, he suspciously left out any of the other Jedi Knights from this particular point of reference I should mention.

Good quote, Charles, I remember it.

Once NJO is over it'll be interesting to see if Jacen discovers Vergere informed on him to Tsavong Lah or other developments. Once the constraints of the editors are off then it might be very interesting to see Jacen's character development. I can come up with excuses for his portrayal in the Force Heretic trilogy as well if you'd like that paints him in a rosier light too!

Example: Jacen was sensing Zonoma Seskot's connection to the Vong unconciously and knew his reverse engineering of Vong tech was not the true reason the Force had led them here.

LOL nice one, Charles! I agree, I look forward to seeing how Jacen reacts to the reality of Vergere's treachery and the lengths she went to, to get her feathers on him. For the sake of Jacen, she had Anakin and a dozen other young Jedi killed. One reason I will NEVER appreciate the character.

I'm also training to be a minister and do assistant work now...whom my congregation will never know the contents of my RPG sessions come weekend.



Certainly, Anakin as the man who sets the ball in

 

Hi NeoStar. Good luck with the fic. How's it going? Hey Dart glad you're posting again. I'm just popping in because I'm biting my tongue *ouch* over something I read in Comms, and I thought I'd come here where it's warm and fuzzy so I don't get myself in trouble.

The Skywalkers are firmly set above other Jedi and Luke's only competition is now Jacen I'm happy to say

***That's just it. There shouldn't be a competition. Jacen should be Jacen and Luke should be Luke the Jedi Master and leader of the pack. Why they felt that Jacen could not grow without the need to "take over" someone else's role is beyond me. I find the author and editor's perception of Luke as too powerful, too perfect, too difficult to write to be lame. If this were true then one could never write about any Jedi since they all have the same image to uphold in one way or another.

*** Why? I suppose I can guess, but I think that in ROTJ you were also seeing a Luke that was using that quick power that the Darkside could give.

He only used that for about a minute or two though. I think Luke was about as strong as his father in the Force, and he also was much more agile and athletic. He was good with the gymnastics.

***Now to me I like that line in the novelization of Luke circling the darkside like a cat or something like that. Palps said it. I always saw him as struggling not to slide down that path, but having trouble after he learned about his father the way he did. It would only be natural to feel bitter and depressed and angry and in dispare after that and I'm sure there were times he felt all those things. That doesn't dimish him at all, it only makes his ultimate choice to reject the negative and the darkside in the end all the more powerful and it is also the reason why DE doesn't always work for me because he fought so hard to over come that in ROTJ.

Okay, in the case of Ahkanah, that was the decision of an individual Earth-dwelling human author, and it really made me boil. I don't care if you think me a prude for saying it!! In the case of Callista, that was only a vision she gave him (I suppose you could call it a vision, or some kind of dream) so it didn't exactly count.

For another thing, talking about the supposed intimate details of these SW characters lives is making me sick. I'm going to bash my head against the computer screen, I swear.

*** I promise not to think you're a prude if you promise not to think I'm a perv. I really don't mind poor Luke behaving like a normal flesh and blood man once in a while. The guy barely gets any happy times in his life the way it is, what with being weakend or hurt all the time. They left it all to the imagination anyway so that was fine.

Traitor was what Luke could not give Jacen, Traitor was Jacen's Trials to redeem a Jedi Knight from the pall of the Dark Side. Reread the book from THAT perspective and suddenly Jacen is a lot more like his uncle.

***Now that is a perspective that I'd have to be double jointed and do olympic sized mental gymnastics to see. I never quite get why so many people love this book. It was one of those that I disliked a lot. Plus, the way he took all that stuff from Dante's Inferno and twisted it, didn't settle well in my mind. Though I'd like to see you try to make me belive Jacen wanted to Redeem Vergere.

Why was PARIS of all people given the choice between Athena, Aphrodite, and Artemis? One randy Trojan prince and we get the disaster of the Illiad. In this case because its divorced from real world cosmology, Anakin is the mindset of the Force made flesh. The Force is both good and evil people, an inherently decent person though that is troubled greatly by living life....and bent by the evil of Palpatine. Were Anakin to remain dark thus would the Force follow him.

*** Meh, that goes down like liver for me. Anakin would then be some sort of Force conduit to consciousness for an energy field. Gah. Hate midi-cholorians and all they spawn. Would that mean that Anakin robot like,

 

DeJade Vu:
Okay, in the case of Ahkanah, that was the decision of an individual Earth-dwelling human author, and it really made me boil

I chose to believe they just slept in in the comfort of each other's arms, but that was the extent of it. With Callista, Luke had some vivid daydreams. We'll be prudes together, DJV!

I think that it is plausible that people can bond BEFORE the intimate act also.

I think so too. People connect at many levels, the intimate act is only one way. Many couples are truly in love and know they have found their soul-mate before they have a sexual relationship.

As for the love issue, of course we all remember that this was written before ESB was in theaters. Even before ROTJ was a twinkle in Lucas' eye.

Right, probably when Lucas was still planning to have the Jedi knight marry the Princess, instead of having Luke and Leia be siblings.

MasterSkywalker:
Pffht, except Anakin didn't writh on the ground like a sissy when the most powerful, evil darkforce user ever bitch slapped him with force lightening.

He was probably too far gone at that point, MS. He could hardly whisper let alone move. All those electronics got fried. As for Luke, his writhing was mostly involuntary, I believe, as he couldn't control his body's movements as the electrical currents went through it. It wasn't because he was a sissy.

Luke, and Leia for that matter, would be dead if not for Vader killing Palpatine, thus balancing the force in the process, and saving the rebel alliance at Endor.

Very possibly, but we'll never know for sure. They might have come up with some resourceful idea or there might have been some miraculous military victory. After all, once Luke distracted the Emperor with trying to gain a new Sith Lord, Palpatine wasn't concentrating on what was happening on Endor and they were able to destroy the shield generator. Once that happened, the Death Star was vulnerable, as we know.

Hurled by the giant, the Emperor pins helplessy donward into the void, bouncing, careening off the shaft's iron walls... To EXPLODE in the dark oblivion somewhere below, sending the demoniac winds howling up out of the pit!

Which makes one wonder how in the galaxy the Emperor could have survived and entered one of his clones, doesn't it?

Charlemagne:
My friend Kyle tends to take a rather vampish view about Mara Jade's service to the Emperor as an assassin, pointing out seduction can be an important part of it. Plus he doesn't believe her Lando story one bit.

But wouldn't Luke be able to perceive through the Force whether she was telling the truth about Lando or not?
Frankly, they don't seem to have much in common to me, so I never believed they had a relationship in the first place.

In any case I do think Walter J. Williams said it best that Luke as a Jedi Master is a hard character to write, he suspciously left out any of the other Jedi Knights from this particular point of reference I should mention.

I think the idea that Luke is hard to write is a copout. As you say, if authors can write other Jedi well, why not Luke? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a writer, but I have written one fan fic story, and I found Luke to be the easiest character of all to write. I think it's because I really like the character. Timothy Zahn and Kathy Tyers write him well, and they like and care about the character too. I think it's as simple as that. If authors want to write him well and are allowed to write him well, I think it can be done. I really wonder though if Del Rey didn't specifically tell authors to hold and tone Luke down and not let him do much so the younger heroes wouldn't be eclipsed by him? But maybe they all went too far? With almost *all* of them holding him back and not allowing him to use his powers over a series of 19 books the character has seemed especially weakened and has been seriously underused.

Personally, I think Luke is a great combination of powerful, wise Jedi

 

Skywalker's Son
[I think he still had his heart set on Leia at that time anyway.]

Perhaps. Actually the comics seem to agree though in Marvel Han isn't faithful according to what I've heard while being deeply in love with Leia. I wouldn't take everything I say at face value truth be told since some of what I say is supposition from my interpretations of the books. On the other hand I sort of like the idea of Luke being first with Gariel too...hmm.

[So then do they change the stats in cases like that?]

Sometimes, other times I think they just ignore it or let the events go by movie rules. Callista by using "Transfer Life" recieved lots of dark side points for using the most heinously evil power in the Sith religion (displacing a soul to live in their body).

[How so when it seems he is being made less and less important to the STAR WARS saga?]
The Star Wars saga is expanding for good or for ill to being not just a single family's story but a setting. I can't say I like this turn myself but Luke's role isn't being marginalized (he's the hero of the Rebellion, redeemer of Vader, and doer of many other deeds) its just slowing down its expansion.

[But he doesn't try to turn her to the Dark Side, and she was only partially trained which should have made her vulnerable to the Dark. At least, according to Obi-wan Kenobi and Yoda.]

As stated, he intended to but she ran after being clobbered around. In Star Wars infinities, Leia offers herself as a Sith apprentice to Vader so she can learn how to defeat the Emperor (my interpretation) and betray them but he seduces her fully to the Dark Side.
[So what finally convinced you?]
Beating Darth Sideous in Dark Empire

[What do you mean by that?]

The final part of the duel where Anakin falls down, its OBVIOUS its deliberate. Watch it and you'll see what I mean.

[What about Jaina?]

Darth Buffy is more interested in piloting than the Force.

[The way DEL REY puffed up Jacen in importance in the NEW JEDI ORDER, I'm afraid Jacen wins the competition.]

Only if you choose to measure by NJO accomplishments.

Terranix

[It occurs to me that it would most likely be taken as an insult- not deigning to deal with the Empire himself & sending his **** of a sixteen-year-old nephew in his stead.]

Jacen isn't sixteen, he's about Luke's age at the beginning of the trilogy actually. Furthermore he is a full Jedi Knight of the Order so its not insulting. He's a respected military advisor to Admiral Krefey at this point for his part in masterminding the Battle of Ylesia. He also despite his "poor piloting skills" played an important role in many battles against the Vong by Lukes side. While hardly a man of Luke's caliber he's not a man of complete undistinguishment.

JK Dart

[The same reverse-linking can be used to make anyone the 'hero' of SW, really; especially, say, Yoda.]

Maybe he's in the prophecy too Then again I'd hate to be Morpheus and Trinity who get the shaft in the One Prophecy too...

Mariah Jade2

[That's just it. There shouldn't be a competition. Jacen should be Jacen and Luke should be Luke the Jedi Master and leader of the pack. Why they felt that Jacen could not grow without the need to "take over" someone else's role is beyond me. I find the author and editor's perception of Luke as too powerful, too perfect, too difficult to write to be lame. If this were true then one could never write about any Jedi since they all have the same image to uphold in one way or another.]

Down Luke Fangirls. Jacen isn't "taking over" for Luke as anyone may have noticed, he's only coming into his own. Yes it is his story arc and while I know many people may feel cheated about it ultimately being his hero's journey and not Lukes, I do understand what they were trying to accomplish here and respect trying to give Luke someone whom can be looked to as an heir apparent...a Mace Windu to his Yoda (though KJA would argue that's Kyp). Jacen furthermore has been Luke's padawan and he's now a knight and he's on

 

For another thing, talking about the supposed intimate details of these SW characters lives is making me sick. I'm going to bash my head against the computer screen, I swear.

Why doesn't Luke tonguing Mara every three hours bother you? The NJO is filled with Luke/Mara sex scenes, bed scenes, kissing, intimate scenes, and it occurs inthe middle of battles, and when Anakin Solo dies, and everwhere else. They do it before Anakin's death, and also right after. That makes my blood boil. "Oh, a boy is dead because I was too unmotivated to take the lead. Let's get it on!" "Oh, Leia getting her legs chopped off, I think I'll go visit Mara, and play tonsil tennis with her, that'll make ME feel better." "Oh, Jacen is jealous of us and our sex-obsessed relationship."

Callista slept in the same bed with Luke, and I don't think it was to read fairy tales to each other.

Speaking for myself, I get upset when Luke is not given the same treatment as Jacen, Leia, Corran, Kyp, Jaina, etc., who have used the Force in anger, hatred, or revenge, but are not forever villified for it in almost every book as he is. Even in DW, during the Jedi Ceremony, they had Luke dress Zekk "because he knew the dark side" or something like that. That constant darkside referencing *does* annoy me. Dark side references aren't brought up with anyone else, only with Luke. The authors never give the poor guy any slack when he experiences a normal human emotion.

I agree. Not all anger leads to the darkside. I hate that they insinutate that Luke is the mirror image of his father. Anakin Skywalker was a tortured soul, that suffered from slavery and many other issues Luke did not have to contend with until he was a full grown man. People had been making attempts on Anakin's life virtually from toddlerhood. His psychology is PTSD and psychotic rages, just like abused people on earth. Tarkin tried to kill him, Krayn enslaved him, killed his friends, and tried to kill him, so his life was nothing like Luke's.

Esp. after Leia's "I need my fear" lecture to Jaina. Fear is the first strike of the darkside.

 

[Which makes one wonder how in the galaxy the Emperor could have survived and entered one of his clones, doesn't it?]

I remind you the Emperor did die and was in Hell for a year

[But wouldn't Luke be able to perceive through the Force whether she was telling the truth about Lando or not?Frankly, they don't seem to have much in common to me, so I never believed they had a relationship in the first place.]

I agree *nuzzles his Mara barbie* Uhhmmm ignore this. I believe the Kyle Katarrn relationship but not the Lando one

[I think the idea that Luke is hard to write is a copout. As you say, if authors can write other Jedi well, why not Luke?]

Probably because the other Jedi stink. Kyp Duroun I don't know why at leasts acts like a Jedi Knight sometimes when he's not being a complete disgrace to the Order thanks to author's mishandling of him. Mara Jade and Corran have had moments while a few others have displayed....mostly just being heroes, there's a difference between a hero and Jedi. One can be one without the other but one REQUIRES being another and MUCH MORE. Jacen ironically does come closest to being a Jedi along with the late Anakin.

[Personally, I think Luke is a great combination of powerful, wise Jedi Master and vulnerable, naive, compassionate Farmboy that makes for a compelling and complex character when placed in the hands of the right author.]

True but interpretations vary tremendously and that's the source of the main conflict in fandom. Look at our disagreements on Anakin Skywalker!

[Actually, that book probably shouldn't have been written at all since it greatly interferred with future films. TESB should have been (and I thought it was) Luke's first confrontation with Vader.]

Funny, if we had it your way Luke's best moments would have been cut out in my opinion. Ironically George Lucas's only two pieces of EU that he's actually commented on (and confirmed reading to have enjoyed) are Splinter and Dark Empire. However george also made the saga apparently about Anakin and had Greedo shoot first so its no longer just his saga either ;-)

Besides there's some fun synchronity with Splinter. Vader knows Threepio and R2-D2's control codes, Vader constantly is repeating the name Skywalker like he can't believe it, and Obi Wan (Lucas knew of this book after all before Empire and approved it-it was the original movie script too) says "I cannot interfere."

[I would enjoy seeing his reaction to that information.]

*pounds ground*
Jacen: DARN YOU! DARN YOU! DARN YOU SPACE CHICKEN!

[No thanks. I don't care enough about Jacen to want to see him in a "rosier light".]
Its hard to sympathize with Jacen sometimes because of his gross errors but he's honestly doing what no other character save Luke has bothered to do in seek further enlightenment in the Force while respecting the lives of others. He has all of his uncle's sweetness, his forgiving nature, his compassion, and desire to see more of the universe. What ironically Jacen doesn't have after his adventures in the YJK series is Luke's desire for adventure. He's at 16 the start of the series, sick of fighting and bloodshed. By Traitor he's aware of how a Jedi must act even if it causes him visible pain and agony to do so.

What Master Skywalker teaches unlike Ganner who gave himself up to hate.

[Now "that's" an interesting take on Traitor. I *can* see Luke not wanting to put Jacen, one of his "sons", through "the Wheel of Fire", while this didn't seem to bother your "Darth Pigeon" at all.]

Prepare ironically for the fact its actually the truth. Luke was nurturing Jacen Solo's more enlightened attitudes even in the YJK series and was trying to show the boy, unsucessfully admittadly, that sometimes Jedi Knights have to compromise their ideals in order to deal with unpleasantness. Luke unfortunatly was only willing to take Jacen to see sleazebaggos like Borsk.

Lets not entirely sell Jacen off as a spoiled brat, he hates his lightsaber as early as the time he accidentally cut off his girlfriend's

 

Frankly, they don't seem to have much in common to me, so I never believed they had a relationship in the first place.]


What does Mara have in common with Luke? Besides the fact that they both worship Mara. I mean really? Luke cares about everyone, is totally non-judgemental, humble, and kind, and patient and tolerant. Mara is selfish, rude, impatient, arrogant, and hateful. Lando is more like Luke than Mara is. Maybe Luke and Lando should get together.

 

I sort of see it as opposites attract, I've found couples that compliment each other rather than share interests are often happier.

Luke saw Mara as one of his redemption projects, considerable physical attraction, Force bond, both had ancestors of dubious morality, both are warriors of unparralleled skill, Mara is a smuggler and Luke has hung around 'their kind' before.

Luke has also always been attracted to women who verbally abuse him; Leia, Shira Brie, Tanith Shire, Akkanah...

It helps him feel more comfortable than being worshipped

Mara needs someone who will put up with her nerfshavit and Luke needs someone who has these qualities he can express them on, otherwise they will get infuriated by his purity like Callista

 

Below is a copy of a post in the TUF spoiler thread.

A poster has posted a detailed synopsis of the book so go and check it out if you wish then what follows will make greater sense, I've left a few things unsaid ie. Luke, go to the thread ASAP.

Warning 1



















Warning 2














Warning 3 - Why are you still reading if you don't want to be spoiled?


Well, finally, the identity of the voice from BP, one of the smartest bits of NJO has been revealed and my hunch was right on the money.

I liked the idea of Anakin Skywalker taking a hand in events after his death, I like the idea of him doing as a further form of atonement. Yes the Force granted Anakin redemption but Anakin does not feel he has earnt it, therefore he attempts to apologise to his daughter and is rebuffed. Perhaps following that Anakin concludes it is action that counts, as he thought in life, but unlike then it must be the right act at the right time, thus he acts at cthose moments he judges to be critical.

Fett, remains a truly lousy insertion, as is the revelation that he has revived the Mandalorians. Why? What purpose? If anything it screams plot-to-be-picked-up-later-buy-the-next-set-of-books!

As for the whole insult he delivers to Han, that was cheap and unworthy. One thing Bantam did very well via the HST and TOTBH and DE was develope the idea of Han and Fett as lifelong adversaries with a grudging respect for the other. Now in TUF all that is jettisoned and we have Fett being sneeringly contemptous of Solo.

Oho, more true to the Boba in the films? Perhaps more accurate to say to the AOTC brat than the cool professional of ESB. Certainly it can be supposed that Bantam's potrait was based on one source and DR's another.

BUT on the whole. Well, there's the whole light-dark problem, although I'm inclined to see it all as semantics, we go from light dark to will of the force/not will of the force. In each case one is stressed as preferable over the other, only the descriptive label has changed, or has the substance changed? If so that's more problematic for can you fry a prisoner for info and then claim it was 'will of the force'? But to expect DR to deal with this in any depth as to be even approaching complexity would be a fool's errand.

It seems I was also right about Luceno. The man was able to give the poor smashed up bastard that is NJO a decent end.


























































end spoilers

JB

 

Greetings regular posters and those I have yet to meet. I have returned from the graveyard refurbished and ready to go. I haven't read the new book yet but I did buy it. Is it any good?

 

If you mean TFP then it's good by NJO's standards and average by anything else.

If you mean TUF well, if you want all your Qs answered hit the spoiler thread ASAP!

JB

 

Charlemagne19:
On the other hand I sort of like the idea of Luke being first with Gariel too...hmm.

I doubt that anything happened between them, but Gaeriel would be a huge improvement over nasty Shira Brie!

Callista by using "Transfer Life" recieved lots of dark side points for using the most heinously evil power in the Sith religion (displacing a soul to live in their body).

Did Callista know that when she did it? When I read the book, I thought it was a rather ridiculous and even disgusting idea, especially for a SW book, but I also thought it was a real fairy-tale ending, and a really special gift from Cray Mingla to Callista. I didn't think of it as a darkside action, just a totally unbelievable one.

The Star Wars saga is expanding for good or for ill to being not just a single family's story but a setting. I can't say I like this turn myself but Luke's role isn't being marginalized

I don't like the idea either, but I do feel that Luke *has* been marginalized in the EU, especially in the NJO.

Beating Darth Sideous in Dark Empire

Well, he had Leia's help and Little Anakin's. Plus, the Emperor *still* wasn't dead! (He had more lives than a cat!)

Down Luke Fangirls.

LOL!

Jacen isn't "taking over" for Luke as anyone may have noticed, he's only coming into his own. Yes it is his story arc and while I know many people may feel cheated about it ultimately being his hero's journey and not Lukes, I do understand what they were trying to accomplish here and respect trying to give Luke someone whom can be looked to as an heir apparent...

I guess if they felt they had to have an "heir apparent" I would have preferred Anakin Solo or Ben someday.

I still find it amusing the comments in the back of Dark Empire that Luke had to struggle EVERY STEP OF THE WAY to try and stomach the Emperor's dark side teachings they had become so unnatural to him . I believe Luke's words were (through the narrotor) 'Crude and Uninspiring'.

But that wasn't in the text itself, and I've heard that there will be a new printing of DE and it won't include those comments, so you have to take what's in the text itself.

Me: I'm a pacifist.
Kyle: we know.

LOL! If those are your friends, C, I hope you don't have enemies!

[*** LOL. You know I wrote a fan fic a while back where all the women in Luke's life come back to haunt him in his marriage to Mara. If anyone ever wants to read it PM me.]
Gimme.

I've read it, C. It's very funny.

Tiershon Fett:
I agree. Not all anger leads to the darkside. I hate that they insinutate that Luke is the mirror image of his father.

Thanks for the support!

Charlemagne:
I remind you the Emperor did die and was in Hell for a year :

Well, DE never said that! And ROTJ never said that! Someone did some "retconning" and I think it makes things even more silly!

I believe the Kyle Katarrn relationship but not the Lando one

Well, I didn't read about Kyle Katarrn so I'm blissfully unaware. As far as I'm concerned, they never even met!

True but interpretations vary tremendously and that's the source of the main conflict in fandom. Look at our disagreements on Anakin Skywalker!

That is *so* true!

. Ironically George Lucas's only two pieces of EU that he's actually commented on (and confirmed reading to have enjoyed) are Splinter and Dark Empire.

I think George may have just mostly looked at the pictures in DE. He likes the visual stuff!

*pounds ground*
Jacen: DARN YOU! DARN YOU! DARN YOU SPACE CHICKEN!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What Master Skywalker teaches unlike Ganner who gave himself up to hate.

Yes, I thought Ganner's Last Stand was rather chilling. The guy actually ENJOYED killing! :::SHUDDER:::: Very unJedi-like!

Only in Traitor does Jacen come face to face with the Jedi's dilemna that it doesn't matter that all people have some good in them. Some must be de