FF:NSW [SPOILERS] Post your movie review of Revenge Of The Sith here!

why Obi-Wan doesn't consider Leia a 'hope'

For me, Leia was never "the other" anyway. I always took Yoda's reference to mean Anakin, not Leia.

 

Wow, that post on the reactions of a seven year-old's "first" viewing of Star Wars is simply amazing. Very cool.

 

So what you're saying Ozhaggis is that by ESB Yoda had figured out that Anakin/Vader's destiny as the Chosen One was not nullified by his fall to the Dark Side? I suppose Obi-Wan could have been blinded to that because of the personal trauma caused by Anakin's betrayal. Or maybe Qui-Gon's been insisting to Yoda that the onset of Vader does not contradict Anakin's destiny as a bringer of balance. That would mean that both Yoda and Obi-Wan seem to have selected Luke as their focus quite early.

 

First few times, I thought Yoda meant Leia. But the more I saw it, the more I started to wonder if Yoda was referring to Anakin. Now, after seeing the entire story, it works better IMHO if you see it as Yoda expressing faith in Anakin, the prophecy, and the force.

Saw it again yesterday and noticed a few new things ...

1. Obi-wan requests emergency transmission 9/13 ... now I'm sure that it's not just coincidence that it's only two digits away from 9/11.

2. The zero-g ballet, during the story of plagueis the wise. I noticed the two ribbons trailing behind the dancers and it made me think of the double-strands of DNA. And the more I watched it, the more it seemed to work as some sort of visual parallel to the story: two dancers swimming in parallel, then splitting off, leaving the "cell" and entering other, smaller cells ... it's almost like the dance of life. So my interpretation of that whole ballet (until i see it again from this POV) is that it's The Dance of the Midiclorians, weaving in and out of cells ...

There were other things, but they escape me atm.

 

yoda meant that Anakin was the otehr? is that what u mean? "There is another" is anakin?


...



that will take some pondering.

i also loved that 7yr olds reaction to ANH. artoo starting the fire with his rockets is sucha freakin cool idea...

 

Here's my take:

obi-wan's "that boy is our last hope" does not mean that he has no faith in leia. what it means is that they are in the final stages of a civil war; if luke fails, there is no more time to train anyone else, and even if there was, there won't be any more jedi masters left alive to train them. luke is the last shot, the last of the jedi, the last hope. they won't get another chance.

besides, if luke fails, odds are that leia will be killed along with the rest of the rebels anyway. and even if she's not, how is yoda going to train her? he has no way of contacting her (as far as i know, obi-wan cannot contact her), and no way of getting off dagobah.


so, no, i do not believe that obi-wan or yoda refers to leia.

In light of the PT, it makes more sense that Yoda is referring to anakin. if luke fails, yoda believes there is still hope that anakin will fulfil the prophecy and bring balance to the force by destroying the sith - one way or another.

 

I dunno...i think its a reach. Maybe its true, but id lay odds it was written and played to mean leia.

 

I'm starting to agree with you Oz. It did seem like a bit of a stretch at first, but I've always wondered why neither Yoda nor Obi-Wan showed any interest in training Leia if she was the other 'hope'. It's also occurred to me that where Luke had an empathy for Vader as his father, because of their history, Leia did not. This fact alone may have led to the decision to focus on Luke (besides the fact that Leia never really had the opportunity to study under either Master due to the circumstances caused by the war - something Oz noted).

The question remains though - if Yoda had faith in Anakin to fulfill the prophecy, why didn't Obi-Wan?

One answer does suggest itself to me: Obi-Wan did, but may not have wanted to tell Luke of his father's destiny for some reason (possibly to prevent Luke from becoming too confident in his ability to redeem Vader - which would be a well placed concern considering Luke ended up being overconfident anyway).

 

Well from what I've read, a draft for ROTJ had Luke searching the galaxy for the Jedi Yoda referred to in ESB. Then it was re-written to make Leia that other character.

In any case, my interpretation is that it's Leia, mainly because of the title "A New Hope". Luke and Leia's reunion is that hope, and only together can they defeat the Empire.

 

Lucas said that things in the OT would be seen differently after seeing the PT. For example, when Vader reveals his identity to Luke in ESB, instead of "Wow, Vader is Luke's father!" we would respond, "Wow, Vader finally told him!"

Likewise, the exchange in ESB between Obi-wan and Yoda was originally written to set up the revelation about Leia's identity (i'm not denying that). But it, like many other things, has been given a twist by the PT. The revelation of leia's identity is as redundant post-PT as the revelation about Vader's identity. The dialogue has been given a different meaning when view after the PT.

So both are true ... from a certain point of view.

 

Just came back from my sixth viewing. When Yoda says he failed, I'm now positive he is talking about a failure to see what Palpatine had become - to realise the true nature of the twisted plotting undermining the Republic. When Yoda falls it clearly knocks him around a bit and I think it's then that he realises this cannot all be made better (like Anakin thinks) simply by getting up and continuing the violence. He does what Anakin could not - he walks away. The failure is not that he didn't kill Sidious, it is in not believing that something like this could happen under the Jedi's very noses. So he goes into exile to refocus and meditate - a state Luke finds him still in twenty odd years later. That clearly shows Yoda's wisdom.

Edit: Oh yes, Oz, well put.

 

Before I forget, some more debunking of potential C-3PO plotholes. Makes you think about Owen Lars in a different light too (in the same way Oz was saying the PT changes things).

 

Ok, so I know theres proberly few of you who will be seeing Revenge of the sith at the theatres in the last week(s?), but I recently saw it and I just want to confirm I wasn't seeing things. In the scene on Felucia where we see Aayla Secura gunned down, Just before the clones turn on her, in the background did I see a clone riding what looked liked a Huge BLUE BUG????

 

Yeah...I've read into this. There's a different type of walker, used by the clones through the jungle, as a transport. And then there's this blue boggle eyed creature that carries individual clones. Both can be seen in that scene...

 

I've actually just started to read the first SW novel again (for the 100th time) and after seeing ROTS I am definetely seeing some parts differently. Luke and Obi-Wan initial meeting and Owen's reaction to Luke's conversation about R2-D2 just to begin with.

 

Glad to see I wasn't seeing things...

Felucia Ground Beetle

 

This might be ridiculously obvious to some, but I've mentioned it to a few people and they didn't notice, so ...

Two things I noticed during the opening space battle, re obi-wan and anakin

First, the difference in attitudes between anakin and obi-wan, epitomised by obi-wan's "Nothing fancy ..." and then the cut to anakin's elaborate, complex, and impractical maneuvres.

Second, and this is where I'm probably reading too much in to things, but was Obi-wan's comment "Flying is for droids..." and anakin's apparent flying skill foreshadowing Anakin's transformation (literally or figuratively) ? Maybe not so much foreshadowing, per se, as a reference to the whole machine /intellect versus human / intuition theme of the saga, and highlighting the contrast between android anakin and human obi-wan ...

 

A rather amusing way to be consistent...

That would make sense Oz, but doesn't Obi-Wan say something similar in ATOC (ie it's merely coincidental)?

 

Fourth viewing and I'm not cringing at dark-side-crazy Palpatine all that much anymore.

EDIT: Nice one Sai. I'm sure it'll be in the deleted scenes on the DVD.

 

Episode 3 DVD details are out on SW.com , but here are the Special Features quickly:

New Feature length Documentary

2 New Featurettes: Stunts and one on the exploration as Anakin as the Chosen One

Battlefront 2 Demo

Thats basically all the details we have been told. Im a little worried that they will waste disc space with the Battlefront 2 demo. I kinda felt the extra features on the OT boxset was a little on the light side (no pun intended). I for one am not really interested in a Battlefront 2 demo, specifically because it will proberly be for Xbox, which I dont have.

November 1st will be a nice day tho.


[image=http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/release/video/img/20050725_2_bg.jpg]

 

I saw it for $5 at castle hill yesterday and of the 4 viewings I had of the movie it was the most enjoyable. The first viewing was special and a pure assault on the senses so I found it a tad hard to enjoy it as much as I'd have liked.

But with a full 2 month break between seeing it at Chatswood and yesterday - I enjoyed it thoroughly.

A few more points (probably rehashed from before but oh well)

* Ewan McGregor was outstanding - he really came into his own when he found out Anakin was the dark jedi who destroyed the Jedi Temple - for mine he nailed that feeling of anguish at his task so much better than Luke did when he was confronted with killing his own father. Granted there was a much stronger relationship and history but the ability of McGregor to sell you on his genuine feelings toward Anakin make the mustafa landing platform part almost DRAMA! I know he'll never get a nomination but for mine McGregor deserved consideration for some sort of acting award for that element of his role in the prequels. He nailed it even with the 'sci-fi' context of the movie. I've always wondered if any Lord of the Rings actors would've had a chance at any awards had the 'fantasy' context not been attached.

* I liked how Count Dooku is pure evil in Ep III - because even towards the end of EpII he's still clearly fighting a battle within over whether he's a hero of a cause or on the path to evil. But in the throneroom scene he's so consumed by the Dark Side he fails to see what the Emperor has planned for his demise - hence the 'look' at Palpatine with the cross sabres at his throat.

* Yet again I loved the opening space battle sequence - of all the prequels this was the most true space 'star wars' like sequence. It just felt so right - like the Death Star trench run and the final battle over Endor. Another aspect of it that I loved was that it overloaded the senses with hundreds of ships - just like the Endor battle - it truly makes each viewing special and a tad unpredictable because you're always looking for something you didn't see before - and c'mon hundreds of spaceships firing at each other is always cool.

* Yoda ceeding defeat to the Emperor still annoys me, yes I know it had to happen for the story to work out but I felt that when Yoda pushed back the final lightning charge from Palpatine - he didn't leave a clear 'I kicked your butt' sticker on the Emperor's butt and that just didn't seem right. Because its clear Yoda showed he was more powerful in the force in that instant when the lightning was repelled but frustratingly the Emperor never seemed to get a lasting memory of that defeat. There's lots of holes to this theory granted but I just would've liked Yoda to accept defeat after leaving his mark (and no a senate chamber full of destruction doesn't count!)

* I still maintain that little padawan kid in the Jedi Council room should've turned on his lightsabre after taking his step back when Anakin did - its one of my favourite scenes in the film but if he'd turned his lightsabre on it would've been just that little bit cooler!

* I'm 99% convinced Palpatines 'mentor' was Plageuis, that smile looks a little stronger than simply recounting a legend - there's a sense of grim satisfaction there that I reckon is unmistakeable.

* I know Anakin had to turn to the dark side but the process of him doing so undisputedly makes him one of the dumbest heroes in cinema history! I mean seriously if you were trying to sell Anakin burnt matches - you'd probably get him to take a box by saying - well they did light fire before maybe together we can get them to burn on their own again...

* The apartment-Jedi Council across the city scene is outstanding - even in a 'action' film this holds its place brilliantly. And it doesn't hurt that in that scene even in grief/doubt Natalie Portman is breathtaking.

* Bail Organa's character gets stronger in each viewing - important because after EpII and my first couple of EpIII viewings I thought - why did they bother putting this guy in. But his conviction to start the Rebe

 

I know a lot of people feel that the great movie epics have finished with the completion of these two superb stories.


But surely you're forgetting the upcoming Smurfs trilogy ...

 

I hope you're joking Oz...

You have to be joking, right?

Please tell me you're joking!

 

Something that stood out for me during my 4th and 5th viewing is a line that Anakin says... "This is a happy moment. The happiest moment of my life." That to me seems pretty powerful, Anakin's happiest moment in his entire life is when he finds out that he will be a father. For me it cements the Vader/Luke relationship - that Vader wouldn't kill Luke, that he wants to share the galaxy with him, and that ultimately Luke is the only person who can bring Anakin back from the Dark Side.

One more line... "Just help me save Padme's life. I can't live without her." The truth is that Anakin doesn't live without her. When Padme dies, so too does Anakin.

 

If only ...


http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117926154?cs=1&s=h&p=0