CT STAR WARS LEGACY EDITION - RESTORATION OF THE 1977 ORIGINAL STAR WARS

Mike Verta any updates on the progress of the Legacy Edition Restoration?

 

This is a revisionist version of events. "The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker" was shoehorned into the story with the PT. The 1977 film was made under the assumption that Anakin and Darth Vader were two separate characters. Only while writing the second draft of TESB, GL introduced the Vader = Luke's father concept. Even then he was only Luke's father, who didn't even have a name. Vader's redemption became an important story element for ROTJ. However, the "The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker" was not central to the OT. It can't be, because the first two movies were not written that way. Even the third film was written from Luke's perspective. It was Luke's story, where Vader was used as a mirror, to show Luke where he might end up, if he had made the wrong choices.

As far as the ST goes, we will have to see the way it turns out, but I believe "The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker" will not be an integral part of the story. It will be about the new characters. Kylo Ren seems to admire the reputation of Darth Vader, not the tragedy of the man underneath. I believe that the ST will be using TESB as a springboard to take the saga to a more character driven territory. The story of Kylo Ren might become, what the story of Darth Vader could have been, had GL continued the OT in the same vein as TESB.

 

It wasnt shoehorned in the story, Vader is conflicted throughout the OT and everybody knew if Lucas made a PT then it would become Anakins story.

For the ST with 9-12 pretty much confirmed, Lucasfilm is going to be telling a new story. There are some OT stuff in there but eventually the movies will veer off from both trilogys. GL 1-6 saga is "The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker". 7-12 is the story of-???

 

Dre once again hitting the nail on the head. What is it with these Lucas apologists on this thread? I can't tell if they're serious or just trying to get a rise out of us...

OT = The Adventures of Luke Skywalker. End of story.

Anakin Skywalker and his redemption is just one part of ROTJ, Darth Vader is the bad guy. That's it. That's what Star Wars is all about. There is not one thing in the PT that adds anything substantial to Star Wars in the slightest and that's why I can't stand them. Just garbage.

 

The way I see it is, the original trilogy is going to function as both the end of the "Tragedy of Darth Vader" story (I-VI) and the beginning of a brand new story (IV-IX). There will be heavy ties in the ST to the OT, just as there were heavy ties in the PT to the OT. The original trilogy is, from here on out, the centerpiece of the Saga, and a way for two different stories to literally meet in the middle.

 

Nobody is gonna diagree about who the main character of the OT is. Im saying who the saga is about.

The PT adds nothing? Is setting up the story for the OT nothing? I know some will say that some events and characters worked better when we didnt know much about them, but mystery doesnt add nothing to the story for me.

 

Disney is about to give a lot of characters anthology films expliaining thier history. Is this going to diminish Han Solo (played by a new actor) and Boba Fett for you?

 

I never said that it wasn't revisionist. But that doesn't take away from what the story became. But if you read the passage from "The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith", you can understand it a bit better.

The two Star Wars trilogies share many characters but have different structures. Instead of telling another heroic coming-of-age story, Lucas has crafted the prequels a historical drama, at whose center is Anakin Skywalker. His story is tragic; that of the Republic-turned-Empire, uncomfortably familiar. Anakin begins as a nine-year-old boy who is physically enslaved. He ends the prequel saga a spiritual and mental slave to the Emperor, who is his metaphorical if not biological father....

But the end of Revenge of the Sith is not the end of Anakin, whose story really closes when it merges with those of his children, Luke and Leia, in Return of the Jedi.

Anakin Skywalker's final confrontation with the Emperor occurs during Luke's final confrontation with the Emperor, which compliments his father's dealings with the same man many years earlier, Indeed the life of the father and the life of the son are commentaries on each other.

--The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221

"It's a downer, the saving grace is that if you watch the other three movies, then you know everything ends happily ever after. Nevertheless, I now have to make a movie that works by itself but which also works with this six-hour movie and this overall twelve-hour movie. I'll have two six-hour trilogies, and the two will beat against each other: One's the fall, one's the redemption. They have different tonalities but it's meant to be one experience of twelve hours."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith, page 62

Yes, the OT begins with Luke's point of view. And is largely his point of view, but that does not mean that Vader's story isn't a big part of it. In ANH, the focus is on Luke with Vader as a supporting player. Then in TESB, Vader moves up as we see more of his character and start to garner more of his motivations. This is true even before the PT was made. Now we come go ROTJ and we see both characters. That earlier story has come back around again. You look at Vader's story from the PT and you look at Luke's story in the OT and you see both stories meet up.

A while ago, I made similar comparisons to the "X-Men" films, where the main story told over seven films is that of Charles Xavier and James Logan Howlett. Both have individual journeys that they take, but their stories meet up and run parallel to each other until there was a conclusion story. A point where everything comes together. It wasn't designed that way at the start, but over the course of many years and seven films, it winds up coming to that point in the last film that came out. There are individual stories for both men and their relationships with select characters and then those stories reach a tipping point where it all comes together and multiple stories are resolved. Lucas had done his own story and yes, it evolved and changed from his initial plans. That happens in storytelling. The story evolves. New points of view come in. Lucas was able to see the story in a different view. That doesn't take away from "The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker" since the OT is still that, while the PT and the OT is "The Tragedy Of Anakin Skywalker" and the ST will be "The Skywalker Legacy". Luke is still part of the story, but from what is known about TFA, it isn't entirely about him. Even if Lucas had made the films, it wouldn't be entirely about Luke.

If I wanted to get a rise out of you, I'd do it in a way that would really go for the jugular. Me, I'm not an apologist. I'm someone who looks past bile and anger and looks at the heart of the story. I don't see it as Lucas is an ass hat who ruined his story. I look at it as a man who told a story and it evolved over time. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with Lucas finally seeing where the story was going from when he first started this in 1973.

Precisely as I quoted above. You don't have to like every decision made, but he did come up with an interesting take.

 

This is the problem, this insistence on referring to all 6 films as a 'saga' when in reality the OT and PT are vastly different in every respect. Bastardising the OT to make it fit with the PT is an insult to film. You'll notice that the PT films weren't exactly Oscar bait because they were poorly thought out messes that don't make any sense, have an ounce of originality to them and are forgettable to all but it's hardcore fanbase. I'm a massive SW fan and I can barely recall anything from those films except for them being utterly boring and lacking all the attributes that made the OT so great.

The Adventures of Luke Skywalker is (and always will be) vastly more interesting and exciting than anything that happened to his father.

 

I think you overestimate how much I care about your point of view but by all means 'go for the jugular'.

Regarding the rest of your post, if you're ok with the SE's and the PT and think it's good enough then you simply do not understand the heart of the story, not in the slightest. Fortunately, thanks to people like Mike, Harmy, Dre and others, we'll be able to see the non revisionist versions for years to come. There's no hate, no bile, no frothing at the mouth - I'm sure you like to think there is and that you get the last laugh etc etc but it's really not like that.

OOT fans love George Lucas for all he did but he is not a god, he can make mistakes and we are allowed to disagree with him.

 

Again, a revisionist argument. Vader was not conflicted at all in SW. He is the bad guy, while Luke is the good guy. Nobody knew Vader was Luke's father, not even GL, because at that point he was simply the guy who killed Luke's father. In TESB, although he's now Luke's father, he's still not conflicted, because he's hoping to turn Luke to the Dark Side to overthrow the Emperor. He's still just the bad guy. Only in the third film, when the Emperor is pitting Vader against Luke, does internal conflict come into play, and does Vader become an ambivalent character. So, Vader is not conflicted throughout the OT, only in ROTJ. This is also one of the more subtle inconsistencies between the OT and the PT. In SW and TESB, Vader is clearly presented as someone who chooses to be bad, and is revelling in it, not some guy duped into joining the Dark Side.

 

That's not the full reason he did it. He did it because he is on record as saying that he was never 100% satisfied with his film and even Kershner said that there were things that he wanted to do, but couldn't and of the changes made to TESB, he agreed with most of them. Tying them in better was the main purpose of Anakin ROTJ and Fett and Ian as Palpatine in TESB. But an insult to film, how? He was not the first filmmaker to change his work. Nor the first storyteller to do so, as Tolkien had changed "The Hobbit" to better fit with LOTR.

So, having an Oscar means it was good. Mind you, the films were only ever nominated and won for technical achievements in effects, costume and sound. And only once was it ever for acting, screenplay and film, all three of which ANH failed to win. The rest of the time, it was never nominated for those top categories. Not to mention that Ford once said, "You can type this ****, but you cannot say it." So the PT didn't take home many nominations or wins. So what. A lot of good films don't. And if you think that the OT didn't have its share of criticisms about originality and were deemed trash by critics, then you're seriously deluding yourself. Or you're uneducated.

Really? What is the heart? I want to hear it from you.

This isn't about last laughs. I never said that the OOT fans wouldn't be happy with their work or ownership of a print copy. I even said a few pages ago that there are ways to get those films and that people saying that they couldn't or wouldn't get them, would be lying. I don't care if they own a personal copy that was 4k remastered. I don't care if Lucasfilm and Disney were to put them out that way. I've never claimed that Lucas was perfect. Nor a god to be worshiped. As to making mistakes, people make mistakes. But as to what are mistakes and what aren't, that is more subjective and opinion based than fact based.

Yes, he was tricked. That doesn't change anything since we see him on Mustafar reveling in what he did when he's talking to Padme and Obi-wan. Talking about wanting to rule and overthrow Palpatine and telling Obi-wan that he's better than him now.

 

I actually saw someone say that people are too hard on the Prequels, and should cut them some slack because George Lucas wrote them BEFORE Star Wars '77. It was funny, then really sad, then funny again.

 

Yes, and it made no sense whatsoever. One moment he's a conflicted good guy, who wants to save his wife from dying. Palpatine lures him with promises of saving his wife, and the moment Anakin takes the bait, instantly tells him he can't deliver on his promise. Anakin rather than attacking Palpatine for lying to him, decides to pledge himself to Palpatine, and follows Palpatine's advice, who more or less tells him, if he wants to save Padme, he should be extra bad. Anakin turns on the evil switch, and starts behaving like a raving lunatic. What horrible writing! Vader was many things in the OT, but not an idiot.

 

Right and Luke was going to do the same thing in ROTJ. Side with the guys who threaten to kill his loved ones, by turning to the dark side. And Palpatine didn't lie to Anakin. He never said that he had the power to cheat death. He said to Anakin that he needed to use his knowledge of the dark side.

PALPATINE: "Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, Anakin, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death."

ANAKIN: "What did you say?"

PALPATINE: "Use my knowledge, I beg you."


PALPATINE: "You have great wisdom, Anakin. Know the power of the dark side. The power to save Padme."


That's what he is referring to when he says, "I have the power to save the one you love."

 

Luke turning to the Dark Side is not the same as siding with the guys who threaten to kill his loved ones. He might wanted to kill both Vader and the Emperor, and still turn to the Dark Side. The Dark Side is not about whos side your on, but about how you choose to use The Force.

Your quotes underwrite my point. In the last quote Palpatine literally states he has the power to save Padme. So, how you can maintain, he never said he had the power to cheat death, is just baffling.

 

PALPATINE; "Now fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side."

Sounds like joining his side to me. He expected Luke to forget that he was going to destroy the Alliance and his friends. He expected Luke to kill Vader and then join him.

VADER: "He will join us, or die, Master."

Read what he said to Anakin in his office.

PALAPTINE: "Know the power of the dark side. The power to save Padme."

That is what he means when he says, "I have the power to save the one you love." Palpatine never once claimed that he was the Apprentice of Darth Plagueis. He just told him that his Master had taught him everything about the Force, including the dark side. But he never said that he could stop death himself. Only that Plagueis had ever done it. He states that together they could figure it out by becoming strong enough together. Remember, he starts off by saying that he can help him to understand the Force.

ANAKIN: "I know there are things about the Force that they are not telling me."

PALPATINE: "They don’t trust you, Anakin. They see your future. They know your power will be too strong to control. Anakin, you must break through the fog of lies the Jedi have created around you. Let me help you to know the subtleties of the Force."

People make the mistake because they misunderstand what is being said.

 

Is this a discussion of the Legacy Edition or a discussion about the validity of the OT-PT as a "Saga"?

I'm curious to find out more about this well-intentioned project.

 

Luke contemplates joining the person who tells him to kill his father and tells him that his friends will soon be dead.

Palpatine saying that he has the power to save Padme is just a lie to get Anakin to join him. When it comes time to chose Anakins picks saving Padme. Then Palpatine reveals he lied. Anakin cant turn back because he just helped him kill Mace, and thinks if they work together they can still discover how to cheat death.

 

This really is the one of the most basic components at the heart of everything.

Not all of course but the very basically the story Lucas started to tell in 1973 and developed over 10 years then left for another 10 then came back and spent another 10 years to finish it.

For those relative few they wanted the story to stop at a certain point and go no further.

Not baffling to me for I have seen ROTS I don't know how many times.

There is little point going over it here anyway but all you have to do is watch the movie again and all the answers are right there.

I do note that for some they want every single line to be taken literally even when the other lines show that not everything is or supposed to be.

Right after Sidious talks about how only by working together and by Anakin getting strong with the Dark Side can they save Padme.

It makes perfect sense with the character of Vader that we see in the OT. He was a lured to the Dark Side and was ultimately the pawn of Sidious. He couldn't ever escape from his fate until he let go of everything.

I think the thing is if they truly aren't being deliberate about it then it's simply a question of examining what is actually going on.

They think the power relates very specifically to THE power to save Padme as opposed to using the power of the Dark Side to find a way to save Padme.

To be even more specific it is about the power that Anakin himself can achieve. He soons starts feeling so powerful that he figures he can get rid of Sidious far faster.

You real problem then is with TESB and ROTJ.

That is where the "shoehorn" started to be put in.

The tragedy was central to Luke and therefore the OT even in it's original form. That it was a mystery that was built to in still in the story for himself as a character. Luke's story is the same regardless of the overall story that we have now about Anakin.

So the perspective doesn't change for him at all. It's our perspective of the story that has changed regardless of anything else and that already happens after we saw the movies once.

 

Mike Verta has a forum where he posts regularly.
http://starwarslegacy.com/forums/index.php

 

Well, I've seen ROTS countless times, and it still doesn't make sense to me that Anakin would turn based on an empty promise, and then go ape*** on everyone, including kids, and the very person he tries to save. I know what the response will be to this, but in my opinion the "he is consumed by the Dark Side" argument, is a weak excuse meant to cover up even weaker writing.

However, since we're never going to agree, and this thread is supposed to be about Legacy, I will leave this discussion for another thread.

 

Here's another great video of Mike. Here he restores the sequence, where the tie fighters approach the Death Star:

 

That is pretty sexy, like he said. It's amazing how a proper restoration by someone taking their time leads to an amazing result. The cleaned up shot is far superior to the SE shot.

 

This is one of the few instances in which I like the Special Edition version better than the original version.