Superman: the original movies

just out of curiosity why was donner taken away from Superman II when he had majority of it filmed already?

 

It's a long story, but here's the deal. In 1973, the Salkinds made "The Three Muskateers" staring Christopher Lee and Michael York. But the film was too long for release, running at about 4 hours. Thus the film was broken into two parts, with the sequel "The Four Mustakteers" coming out in 74. This resulted in a massive lawsuit filed by the guilds, because everyone involved was not paid for working on what is technically two films. Thus when it came to Superman, it was going to be two films. Mario Puzo wrote a huge script that had many faithful elements, but went off on it's own direction. After Puzo left, David Newman and Robert Benton came in. They did the 1966 play "It's A Bird, It's A Plane, It's Superman...The Musical". They wrote a draft before Benton went off to do another film. David's wife Leslie did the next draft. During this time period, the Salkinds wanted a film that's very much like Superman III and the Lester scenes in II. Guy Hamilton was going to direct, but because the production was going to shift for Italy to England, Hamilton dropped out due to tax reasons. Donner had just hit it big with "The Omen" and the Salkinds went to him. Donner agreed, but rejected the script as being a disgrace. He wasn't quite big on Superman, but he knew that fans and general audiences won't sit through 4 hours of garbage, let alone two. So Donner called in Tom Mankowitz to do a re-write, just before filming began. Donner's vision was simple. Make it as realistic as possible, without going overboard. Treat it respectfully. Give it a mythic quality.

Because Donner had a conflicting vision with the Salkinds and Pierre Spengler, friction began. Mind you, the Salkinds had bankrolled the film themselves through various financers and banks. They didn't want to go to WB, otherwise they'd have a huge say. The Salkinds had wanted and got Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman. As well as several other notable name actors. Donner wanted an unknown to play the Last Son of Krypton. The Salkinds wanted big names like Robert Redford. Donner knew that wouldn't work. You had to see Superman and not Redford in a Halloween costume. Enter Christopher Reeve who nailed it. Filming began in late March 1977. Both films were being shot at the same time, so that they could have all the actors together and use all the sets at the same time. Much like the Matrix sequels, LOTR and the Back To The Future sequels were done. But you must remember that this is the era before CGI and ILM was only Star Wars exclusive. All the other FX departments were shut down and new ones hadn't started yet. Two months before ANH hit and changed everything. So it took a while to get everything done. Especially when you're doing two films at once.

Donner and the Salkinds were having verbal disputes which got to be pretty heated. To calm both sides, Richard Lester was brought in as a mediator. Lester was also there to cancel his suit regarding pay from the Muskateer films. Lester had an uncredited producer role and could only be on the set if he was invited. Donner and Lester had known each other and got along well. The problems seemed to have died down and filming resumed without incident. By 1978, things were looking to be pretty tough and the Christmas deadline was coming up. Lester suggested finishing the first film and even using the ending for Superman II, so that the first film didn't end on a cliffhanger. The idea was that Superman saves Lois, thus there was no traveling through time. The first missle would explode freeing Zod and his crew, thus resulting in a "To Be Continued" with a montage to let people know that a sequel would come. Superman II would end with Lois being killed and Superman reversing time to resurrect her, but the Fortress is destroyed and Lois would forget everything about Superman being Clark Kent.

In December of 1978, the first film hit. Uncertain if they could finish the second film, but as luck would have it the film did well. Donner resolved to go back and bite his tongue so that the film could get done. But the Salkinds decided to fir

 

That's great information there. I enjoyed reading that. but I'm also worried about what I read today over at Superherohype.com. It seems that one of the Salkinds is doing the remastred/restored version of "Superman: the Movie". I mean to me the Salkinds are the ones really to blame for the half-assed Superman 2 ( i know..I'm in the minority here) and the failures of Superman 3 and 4. They destroyed the franchise in my book (along with Lester and his goofball campy humor which worked to perfection in the aforementioned "Musketeer" movies but for Supermah....please) So I don't really have high hopes for this "restored" version without Donner's input.

 

I think all that imply's is that there will be work done on the picture and sound quality of Superman I...nothing more. I'm pretty sure they're going to leave the film itself the way it is. They wouldn't be stupid enough to mess with a "classic".

It's Superman II that's getting the re-EDITING treatment by Donner...at least that's the rumor going around. That way we can get the REAL Superman II out in the public eye.

 

Ilya Salkind wants to do commentary for the first film, as well as the other films except Superman IV, since he had no involvement. The first film was already restored by Donner, so there's no reason to restore it again. Ilya has no say in what will wind up in the final product regarding Donner's work. The theatrical cut by Richard Lester will probably be supervised Ilya, while Donner supervises his stuff. Unless Donner overseas both aspects, but I don't really know if I'm right. Ilya will then oversea Superman III's restoration and provide commentary for that. I don't know if he provided commetary for Supergirl or not. Sidney J. Furie will be asked to participate in Superman IV, otherwise WB will just handle it on their own.

Alexander Salkind died several years ago.

What's unknown for sure is how Donner will present the material. If he will take the footage he made and combine it with certain scenes from Lester, to create a new cut. Or if he will just edit the footage together and put it out as a featurette. The footage from Superman II has previously been seen on ABC network and internationally, except for the Brando material. There is an international edit that's available, bootleg, which has all the Donner footage from the ABC broadcast.

 

This one talks all about the first film.

This one talks about the second film.

This is about Superman III

What there is about Superman IV.

The history of Supergirl.

A feature on Richard Donner's directing style.

What was done by Richard Lester and why he did it.

 

darth-sinister I didn'y know you were such a big fan of the Superman films. Do you post over at The Planet forums at the Blue Tights Adventure Network?

Superman: The Motion Picture is easily the best of the four films. I feel Superman II is a mixed bag because it really is a mixed bag two separate films edited together into an entertaining mess. I actually rank Superman III above II as it's a very fun and entertaining film. Robert Vaughn is more or less a Lex Luthor stand in but he is more then capable. I have no problem with Richard Pyror in the film and the Smallville scenes and the junkyard fight are standouts. The visual effects for III are excellent compared to II's. Superman IV: The Quest for Peace is the weakest of the films but is much better then people give credit for. Had Cannon Films not slashed the budget in half or edited out the 40 minutes of film it would have been very good. Chris Reeves gives an excellent performance as Superman/Clark. What's funny is that the film was made in 1987 but is far more dated then the original film.

 

doesn't superman have the ability to freeze stuff with his breath? it's been a while since i've seen Superman III and if i remember correctly he freezes a lake i think

 

Yes it's Superman III. There's a fire at a chemicle plant and Superman flies over to a lake, freezes it and then tosses the frozen lake into a cloud causing it to rain putting out the fire.

Why superman just doesn't freeze the flames I can't remember.

 

he could've blown them out w/ his super breath to

 

No, I do not post at many Superman forums. Mostly you'll see me on Alvaro's Comic Book site, under the same name.

Yes, Superman does have the ability to alter the density of his superbreath so that it freezes objects, such as fire. But in 1983, such effects were not easily created. Nor did the Salkinds want to spend the money on such things. The Salkinds wanted something in the vein of the James Bond franchise, while Donner wanted what we see in the first film. Because of the impact Donner had, other comic book films would try to elmulate things from him. Spider-Man would use elements of both Reeve films, while X-Men and X2 were both done in the realistic style of Donner. Anyway, to get around the Superbreath on fire issue, the script called for Superman to freeze the lake and use it to dose the flames. However, Superman's superbreath can also be used to smother flames. Post Crisis, Superman has also used other methods for extinguishing fires. Either a superclap that creates a strong gust of wind or he flies to the nearest river and creates a massive whirlpool which he then turns into a water spout and uses to put out flames. He can deal with tornadoes like in Superman III and IV, only it's closer to IV. What he does is fly clockwise to disrupt it. This he learned from Jay Garrick, who is the first man to use the name Flash. Originally he tried to rely on flying counter clockwise, but he just made it split in two. He does not turn it upside down as portrayed in the films.

Now, here's some thing about the other films so that they don't feel left out. Superman II was released internationally in 1980 and 1981 in the US. It was part of some type of marketing deal or some such. The Salkinds were confident that Superman III would come out right away, but there was the script writing and securing the actors and director. The Newmans returned and paired up with another writer. They would continue the story based loosely off the first film, but altered to fit what they wanted. Thus when you see photos of Clark, Lana and Brad they are not portayed by the actors in the first film. Smallville is still filmed in Alberta, Canada as before, only now we see the rest of it. They do keep consistant with the wheat crop that's in the original film, which was only done because the corn crop was not sufficent, but the wheat crop was. "Smallville" keeps consistant with the corn fields and apparently the new film does as well. The Salkinds hired Lester to round out his lawsuit issues and because he proved successful to them. Reeve did sign on, but it was at the time going to be his last time. Kidder was reduced to a cameo because outspoken statement about Donner's firing. Hackman would not come back, so Ross Webster was invented as a poorman's Lex Luthor. The super computer would turn into Brainiac at the end, thus giving us the third in Superman's rogues gallery. But this was dropped during the production, unfortunately.

Richard Pryor was brought in to attract his fanbase and a newer audience base in general. Also we get the common man next to Superman. Pryor was recovered from his burns and looking to get back to work. This and the Toy helped to show that he could be family freindly. The weakness of this story is that there's too much humor and the script appears to be a mishmash of events that loosely come together at the end. Many fans though love the Evil Superman arc, though it's a bit weak until the showdown with Clark in the junkyard. Though I think the film is okay in general, this is the part that I love most. Great stuff from Reeve and Ken Thorne uses John Williams' score to create an epic battle, that's small scale. Just as Alan Silversti's score for the original Back To The Future added an epic feeling to a comedy with small does of adventure and sci-fi.

With Reeve swearing off the tights, the Salkinds turned to Supergirl. She, like Superman, was obtained in 1974 and was going to be a big film franchise. Unfortunately, this would not happen as it suffered greatly. Early on, Slater was to wear a new costume look that

 

darth-sinister, by any chance do you know more about superman then star wars?

 

I know a lot. Most of this I know from reading the Superman Cinema site whose link I posted earlier. Basically I'm a fountian of useless knowledge and quite sad. But I digress.

 

oh yeah. there's another thing about superman II i've been wondering. what's the deal with that thing where superman takes the s-shield from his chest and throws it at the one kryptonian in the FOS?

 

http://www.youtube.com/w/family-guy..-superman?v=QMYT7BbCYJo&search=family%20guy%20superman%20

 

lmao

 

The Salkinds wanted to have a Superman who was like James Bond. Not only a film with product placements, like the Coca Cola sign in Times Square/downtown Metropolis and the Marlboro truck, but "gadgets" in the form of silly powers. Though this is not too far off the mark. During what's known as the Silver Age, Superman developed a whole host of powers that were previously unseen. While the core powers were put into place, others were added by the writers to get Superman out of some type of jam. Only to disappear again when the story was done. Only a few stayed beyond the first appearence. When the Modern Age began, Superman's power levels were adjusted to make him struggle to defeat certain foes. And his powers were kept to the basics, with the few that were added during the Silver Age disappearing. In the same vein, we have those powers that were never in the comics, but in the films. Such as the giant S-Sheild and the white finger beam of death, as well as levitation. The superkiss was another one. Originally, Donner was going to have Clark use his heat vision to rob Lois of her memories, by altering the content of the water in the cup that he gave her. This was to replace the turning back of time, which got bumped over to the first film. Lester used the kiss, which while weird, is somewhat more believable.

The fixed powers as it stands today.

-Flight.
-Strength.
-Super Speed.
-Hearing.
-Heat Vision.
-Infra Red Vision.
-X-Ray Vision.
-Telescopic Vision.
-Microscopic Vision.
-Invulernabiltiy.
-Super Breath.
-Freeze Breath.
-Ability to hold his breath for periods of time.

Silver Age powers.

-Time Travel.
-Super Ventriloquism (sp).
-Super Taste.

 

darth-sinister should direct a superman movie

 

Impressive, an expert on all things Star Wars, Transformers, Highlander, and Superman too?

And I thought I had too much time on my hands.

 

Well, what can I say.

I wanted to know what the deal was with the cut scenes and that's what I found out. And I've read Superman comics for years.

 

they should have an icon with the S-Shield for u darth-sinister

 

So apparently there WILL be a Donner cut of Superman II. The catch is that Donner won't be involved...apparently he feels he's too far gone from the project to finish it now thus as a result, he's left the responsiblity to an old friend.

Also, only 70% of the Donner footage will be used as the other 30% was destroyed.

Still though, coming Fall 2006....SUPERMAN II--Donner Style!!!!!!

 

If Bryan Singer isn't too busy with Superman Returns, I'd imagine that he'd edit it together. I'm not sure how many film friends he has, who could supervise it.

I know that most of the Donner footage does exist, because aside for the Brando scenes, the rest has been used as part of an international fan cut. I figure that the rest will be used in conjunction with the Lester footage, edited to create the proper bridge points.

 

will they reincorporate the jor-el scenes into Superman II with this new cut of it coming out?

 

Here's the article:

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/684/684482p1.html