Sure looked like Darth Maul had the high ground to me

It is possible, I just don't agree as there's no concrete evidence either way, so I'm assuming that he's a living being instead. It would be possible for him to be a Human Replica Droid though, I don't know how you'd explain the Force Lightning he took in the Darth Maul comic as every time we've seen cybernetics hit with Force Lightning(Vader) it shut them down.

Every Sith has a less than dignified death, so that's simply par for the course. I think Maul did an excellent job serving his purpose as a character(which was as outlined above, to kill Qui-Gon and lose to Obi-Wan[to show his strength as a duelist, and prove that he was in fact ready for the trials.])

Dooku's purpose was to be killed by Anakin to show his growth inbetween Episodes 2 and 3. Every Sith apprentice in the Prequels serves as a placeholder and a benchmark for Vader(who is the main character of the series and thus is the longest lasting of the Sith apprentices. He's also a mixture of Maul(a Sith weapon who excells against Jedi), Dooku(the more political side as well as a former Jedi), and Grievous(more machine than flesh.)

I'm also not trolling as I'm not intending to cause an inflammed response. I'm simply posting my opinion on Maul.

 

Yes, Darth Maul could lead the Seperatist army. But did he have the credibility or carisma of Count Dooku that would enable many star systems to join the cause? Absolutely not.

I agree.

How do you get that? What did Maul ever do that would make you believe Maul could defeat Tyranus or Vader in a duel? He engaged Qui-Gon and Obiwan for a brief period than mainly fought each guy alone, losing to Obiwan. Neither were excellent duelist. Tyranus fought lightsaber skills at the Temple when he was a Jedi. Vader defeated Dooku and had nice looking skills even in the suit. Maul would be crushed by Tyranus or Dooku. It wouldn't even be close. sith_rising, your post above is the defination of trolling.

Yes, everyone has to pay their dues. I can't picture Maul as a Sith Master though. The Sith Order would be in big trouble if Maul became a Master.

Vader wasn't Vader during the duel. He dominates Luke on Bespin and then a few months later Luke dominates him? Something was clearly effecting Vader during the duel. And Count Dooku lost to Anakin Skywalker when he was 23. Not a big difference, but let's get the facts straight.

 

alright this can go on forever i mean can you really ever argue effectively with a fan boy of any fan base? The answer is no because if a fan believes something then that is what they believe no if ands or buts. So we may like Maul you may like Mace Windu it doesn't really matter in the end. We all have a right to an opinion that differs with someone else we just choose to be stubborn.

Imagine this though had they started with the prequels first would your thoughts be somewhat different?

 

I couldn't agree more.

They might be, I'm unsure.

 

I just skimmed through the thread and decided to add my thoughts on this.

1. Maul lost because of his arrogance and pride. He was over confident, and cocky, his main weaknesses. These are also evident in the book Darth Maul: Shadow hunter. It's not surprise to me that he lost to Obi Wan

2. Sidious never intended for Maul to live long past his Naboo assignment. He needed Dooku to lead the separatist movement, as he was charming, charismatic and self assured. Due to the rule of two, this mean Maul would have, most likely, either been sent on a suicide mission or killed by Sidious himself.

As much as I like Darth Maul, his back story, the books about him and the character I cannot deny he was simply not meant to be. He was far too cocky and prideful of his abilities, never thinking he could be outmatched or out done. This short sightedness was his one, main, evident weakness and surely enough, it was what lead to his demise, and rightly so.

 

Similarly to the way Palpatine shocked the Jedi in ROTS and cut them down quickly, Obi-Wan shocked Darth Maul by using the Force to leap over him. Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin, Kit Fisto, and even Mace Windu were all quite in a state of shock when Palpatine launched himself at them, being a seemingly frail old man. Despite him being a Sith. Same way with Maul. The seemingly defeated Jedi launched himself up and over Maul, catching him off guard. He was simply expecting Obi-Wan to drop, he was slashing his lightsaber and creating the sparks hoping that some would fall on Obi-Wan and he would drop to his death.

 

LOL, like his name was Darth Gollum...

 

Maul did have the high ground... literally, but not in his "mind set" as someone basically already mentioned in this thread. When Obi-Wan says he has the high ground in ROTS, it had nothing to do with him literally being on higher ground.

Obi-Wan sensed that he was about to win the fight against Anakin and the "high ground" line was his last kick at the can to make Anakin stop. It was a lame attempt, yes, but it was all he could say. He knew he was about to chop the legs off his best friend. ...bummer.

 

Thats what happens when you make films out of order.

 

My opinion on Darth Maul failing to defeat Obi-Wan is this.

Darth Maul is of the Zabrak species. Zabrak are very prideful of what they do and think they are capable to do everything. He let his Zabrak nature get in the way and he didn't duel tacticaly. He was surprised Obi-Wan managed to do something to ruin his accomplishments and let his pride get in the way.

 

you can't assign the characteristic to the entire species however. Eath Koth and Agen Kolar were both Zabrak, and both were Jedi Masters. In order to be a Jedi Master, they would obviously have to be able to control their emotions, their hotheaded impatientness. So, while Zabraks may have a self-confident belief that they can do anything they set out to do, it doesn't mean that they are cocky about it. Maul, being a Sith Lord, contributed to his cockiness and impatience more than being a Zabrak did.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_ground

The above is taken from Wiki about high ground. It is an interesting read.

 

hey that was pretty interesting thanks for posting it -

 

Hey, I call em like I see em.

 

LOL. Exactly.

It was just a contrived scene from a lazy writer.

And just because other TV shows or movies have had "lazy" "arrogant" villains doesn't make it a good idea! Being lazy at just the moment you have your enemy at the point of death is stupid. lol.

And saying "Maul had to die" is no excuse either. If the plan is to have Dooky take his place than write a plausible death!!! This is a creative process last time I checked.

 

This is a creative process last time I checked.


I had another poster tell me Maul's death was campy... and that it was intended to be stupid.


How come Kenobi can vertically jump 30 kilometers, like superman skims alongside a skyscraper in TPM? And Maul falls asleep at the wheel against a Jedi, whom he had remarked earlier about his longing to face them? How long did kenobi hang? What? Did Maul get bored? He would have been so focussed that any touch of the Force by Kenobi would have set his senses on fire... I don't buy it.

At what's with Vader leaping 40 yards, landing on a trash can lid, but all of sudden he can't leap 20 feet, less than four minutes later? Which by the way also happens to be a lot shorter distance than Kenobi's in TPM. I think that the inconsistencies were made worse by half-assed explanations and uber-contrived retcons.


Maul got robbed, and OT Vader got punked even further... but I still dig it all.
Just don't tell me how Vader was all that Chosen-One, Super-Bacteria-Filled and then have him do less than generic (non-20,000 per cell) midichlorianated Jedi could do.

 

Exactly. Nothing makes sense. Maul got a lousy death and Vader's loss was laughable after making the greatest Force jump in the entire Saga. Maul shouldn't have gone out like that. Dark side Obiwan should have been strong enough to over power Maul and kill him. Later, in RotS Anakin echos this by over powering Dooku with the dark side. Maul standing and looking down at Kenobi unable to grasp the stitution is just wrong. Palpatine trained Maul, I'm sure he went over finishing someone with him. Maul comes across as mentally disabled or something. Vader, has been hurt by the PT like no other. The way he lost is disturbing to say the least. Vader can Force jump one minute then he can't. They guy can pretty much do anything except make a simple jump. This is why I believed it would have been much more realistic to see Yoda and Obiwan engage Vader on Mustafr. OB can land the blows to make everything line up in the OT. But the hype of PT Vader never lived up. It should have been like, once freed from the restraints of the light side, the galaxy was at Vader's finger tips. Instead, Obiwan defeats him alone. Palpatine/Yoda should have never happened. The real threat was to stop Vader because of his potential with the Force. That would have been believable. A lot the PT was very unrealistic. Hence, both Maul and Vader being shortchanged.

 

Right! Save me from all that tumbling into the pit against Maul.
I mean besides, Kenobi's leap doesn't match up with the ROTS dialogue about Anakin having saved his butt ten times.

Yes, I also say have darkside Kenobi overpower Maul, and THEN have Qui-Gon give one last lesson to him about it with his last few breaths. Maul had more dialogue, it surely would have helped the character if they had kept it in. But his death was the worst in the whole saga. No way he goes out like that...

I know what yer sayin.

I don't know about the Yoda part, maybe... but certainly Vader of the PT was overated.

They cut the flying barrels, the dialogue, and the best part of the fight... on Mustafar, Vader chopped up the walls and flung the molten metal at Kenobi. You can actually see where they did it on film, when they passed through the tight corridor.

Obi Dumb didn't beat him... by that point Lucas just wanted to stuff him into the suit.

I do agree; more than somewhat, but less than for the most part.
I think its more about the inconsistencies...

and that it often seemed like stuff was put in, just to be put in. Its all good, its all Star Wars.

 

He died, get over it. This isn't the first time an loved villian has been killed off to make way for new ones in the world of stories.

Blaming it on bad or lazy writing is funny because first of all maul=tool(very interesing ), second of all the Maul vs. Obi Wan battle later creates a major reflection with the Anakin vs. Obi Wan, and third Maul was a major foreshadow of who Anakin would become.

The death is plausible, Obi Wan uses the light side of the force to overcome arrogance and hate! Please stop holding on to this one scene for crying out loud!

 

Ok so Maul is a "tool". That doesn't explain his death either.

As for foreshadowing Anakin, I thought that was Dooku's job (being that he was a fallen Jedi)???

And the death is not plausible. Maul was moving with feline quickness and took no time to gloat or dance or smile before he killed Qui Gon. he just took him out with speed and effectiveness. Then with Obi Wan he inexicably decides to just hang out and give obi wan a chance to win. it made no sense. And better writing could have explained it much better.

 

I agree.
You could argue, for the sake of arguing, that Maul was more engaged in his duel with QG because he saw him as the greatest threat - and thus he was more concentrated. However, Maul must be some idiot to have his saber cut in half, nearly killed, and then not realize that he should take OBW seriously - EVEN after pushing him into the pit...

 

This is exactly why I have been arguing that Maul would have been completely disposable upon Palpatine's discovery of Anakin, just like Count Dooku was, that Maul would NOT have been able to lead the Seperatist army for his complete lack of situational awareness, AND that he is nothing but a brute...If Maul isn't smart enough to take Obi-Wan seriously, despite everything that happened, Maul isn't smart enough to lead an entire droid army against the Republic. Maul = overrated, period.

 

Well, since General Grievous led the Droid Army, where does that leave Dooku?
Playing politics with a bunch of goons... Awesome.

Talk about overated...

The OT Sith Lords inspired fear and wonder, and Maul fits that description to a T.
Dooku did not. IMO, Dooku fans only bash Darth Maul because The Count got pwned by his own Master while kneeling at his feet.

The funny thing is, Grievous was more intimidating than Dooku ever was.

***

Maul did have the high ground, as I said before...

"The only person capable of taking advantage of said high-ground, is a character that has to make it into the OT."

 

Maul took time to gloat after defeating Obi-wan, because the danger was over in his view. With Qui-gon, he still had to concentrate on Obi-wan. But now with Obi-wan hanging on for dear life and his Lightsaber gone, Maul had every reason to gloat. What could he do to him without a Lightsaber? He forgot about Qui-gon's saber, which shows that he has lost touch with the Living Force. He isn't aware of his surroundings. He has waited a long time for this moment and it is more than he could ever hope for. But Obi-wan is a far better Jedi than he looks and was able to gain the advantage. Palpatine may have thought that he was ready, but he was not.