Animated Shorts Tales of the Empire (Spoilers allowed)

And we were doing so well, too.

 

Good things never last!

 

You know, while the notion of showing the massacre on Dathomir from a different perspective is intriguing, I'm wondering if they're attempting to retcon it a tad involving Grievous. At what point was he actually going after other witches shifting focus away from Ventress?

 

There were two massacres. The second one in The Son of Dathomir.

It, indeed, cannot be the first massacre from Season 4 episode Massacre, because:
1) Grievous had his hand cut off by Ventress, whereas in Tales of the Empire he has all of his hands intact;
2) We see Droid Gunships in the trailer, which were first introduced in Season 5 Onderon arc, which was revealed to be a new weapon. Droid gunships were massively deployed in the last year of the war, they could not have been present anywhere before that, and we never saw those gunships in the first four seasons of TCW, including the Massacre episode;
3) Grievous has his updated model that was going to be used in the original Season 6 and beyond;
4) It seems to be an entirely different Nighsister tribe altogether.
And while Tales of the Jedi already did contradict the models continuity by having Obi-Wan with a mullet for some reason and Ahsoka with a completely different outfit (and Tales of the Empire has already one visual inconsistency: they forgot Barriss' hand tattoos), the other contradictions would be too severe and lore-breaking. So unless Dave Filoni has completely and utterly lost it to the point of contradicting finished and crucial The Clone Wars episodes, it has to be the second massacre. If it isn't, I am gonna be big mad.

 

They should have stuck with the original Doug Chiang design for Grievous.

 

Unless said otherwise i think its one we see in Clone Wars tv show. The one all remembers.

 

It literally cannot be that one. It cannot be for multiple fundamental reasons. It makes no sense whatsoever and it will break the story.

Doug Chiang didn't design Grievous. He was designed by Warren Fu.
And what design do you mean? This one? This is the original Grievous design.


Tales of the Empire has almost 1:1 ROTS Grievous design. Just a tad bit different proportions due to being stylized.

 

How does it break it, we dont know how long he walked and fought to Mother Talzin

 

Did you literally not read my post above? Are you trolling me?

 

All your points are minor. His model, gun ships, its the same tribe. On point one he got his hand fixed. You will be dissapointed of you think its not the same massacre as we saw in Clone Wars. Its the one that almost wiped out all the Nightsisters.

 

They are not minor. How can he have his hand fixed? He gets his hand cut off by Ventress, and then he goes WITH ONE OF HIS HANDS MISSING to finish off Talzin. There was never once a point in time in that episode where he could have fixed his hand.
Gunships is not minor. They were literally not present at that battle. They were not in the first four seasons of TCW. Because they made their first appearance in S5 Onderon arc. We are literally told that this is their first usage. They CANNOT appear in Season 4. They were not there. Separatists didn't have them yet. They were not in that episode.
How can it be the same tribe, if Morgan looks nothing like the rest of the Nightsisters? She looks like a regular human. Her outfits are different from TCW Nightsisters, though it might be a Disney thing to desexualize them in general. But for all intents and purposes, it seems like a different tribe. TCW Nightsisters didn't have fire-glowing sickles as well.

Again, it cannot be that massacre. And if it is, then Dave Filoni is an idiot.

 

Animation gets better with time thats why we see them better and see them fight with other then energy bows. Is it said the gun ships are new in Onderon arc. We will see but i think it is and like Filoni does he contradict himself at times like GL.

 

To me, the visual deterioration of the PT coincides directly with the diminishing involvement of Doug Chiang. Fully involved in TPM, partially in AOTC, and really not at all in ROTS. Which is IMO one of the main reasons why TPM is the best-looking prequel, as I’d say most fans agree.

 

Seems like it can be explained by revealing that massacre had several waves, with Grievous having a rest after killing Daka, fixing his hand and then hunting down remained witches across the planet. And since it was late season 4, gunships could be already tested before being deployed against GAR.

New model does not necessary mean that in-universe Grievous changed his exoskeleton.

 

TPM looked the best because it was shot on film and had the most real sets, miniatures and shooting on location.

ROTS had incredible designs. Incredible new characters, costumes, vehicles, worlds. Pick up The Art of Revenge of the Sith book some time.

Onderon was that test. They were tested against Onderonian Insurgents, not against GAR. There was no GAR on Onderon.
Listen, I just don't get it: why do you people want it to be the first massacre, when it obviously does not fit? Why make unnecessary jumps through hoops, why try to retcon and fit in things where they don't belong? It would fit seamlessly if it was the second massacre in the aftermath of The Son of Dathomir. It is literally perfect. Why go through so much trouble to needlessly contradict what we had seen on screen?

 

I own the ROTS Art book (and the film itself - all that really matters is what made it to the screen). And both book and film are plagued by the plague that is Ryan Church’s insufferably busy art.

And the film medium, cinematography and location shooting is only half the reason why TPM looks the best. The other half is that Doug Chiang was the lead designer.

 

And witches were an even easier target then insurgents, more logical choice for an earlier test.

It would not, there were no witches on Talzin and Maul's side in this battle.

Grievous fixing his arm behind the scenes (not a very unusual thing for him) before continuing the massacre is not such a big trouble.

 

It does not fit chronologically. There was no droid gunships in that battle. Grievous sent everything that he had at the time, INCLUDING the Defoliator tanks. Why would he hold onto the Droid Gunships, when they would be the most useful? That does not make any sense.

It's not important. We see in the last panel of the comic massive droid invasion and them laying waste to Dathomir. Just say that Grievous was sent to wipe out all the other Nightsister tribes. Which would make sense. There are many Nightsister tribes. We see in the trailer that Morgan ends up being rescued by some Mountain tribe, which is entirely different from Talzin's tribe. It fits better, than doing mental gymnastics you people try to do to fit it where it doesn't belong, and it doesn't contradict anything. And ALSO, we see the aftermath of the Massacre in the episode itself, we see Ventress being left all alone, and the remaining witches being massacred as Grievous murders the one that raised corpses. So there is literally no time for him to do Tales of the Empire story, there is no place for it in the episode.

Fix where? He could fix it at his lair. Maybe he had his fixing station at his capital ship. But there was nothing of sorts on that carrier ship that he arrived on to Dathomir in that episode. Why make this up, when you have Grievous wearing a cape with all of his arms intact on Dathomir in The Son of Dathomir?

It makes no sense for it to be the first massacre. And if it is, then it's gonna be just utterly stupid.

 

He want back in his ship and got a spare. It makes most sense its the first invasion of Dathomir because thats the famed massacre thats ties to Ventress/Merrin/Elsbeth. There were more witches then we see in episode in clone wars and the battle lasted long. No one is going to remember a single panel in an issue of a comic.

 

No, it makes no sense. He never went back. We see the beginning and the end of the battle in the episode itself. The fame or massacre is irrelevant. There were two massacres. And the second one fits better. Speaking of which, Merrin and Eslbeth are both retcons. Ventress was originally supposed to be the only survivor. It is explicitly said that she is the only one left. That's the entire point, and the big part of her character going forward, big part of her arc in Dark Disciple. Morgan Elsbeth does not even look like a Nightsister. She was just a regular human in live-action with darker skin, whereas she now somehow has pale skin in Tales of the Empire, lol. It never made sense that she was a Nightsister, but whatever.

 

In EU Nightsisters looked human too. And Ventress only guesses she was only one.

 

This isn't EU. EU is irrelevant to the discussion. EU is not canon. Talzin's Nightsisters were all pale and more alien-looking. Ventress did not guess. Mother Talzin pretty much confirmed that and did not object. And it was objectively stated in Dark Disciple itself, that she was the only one many times. Talzin's tribe was fully wiped out in that episode, with only Ventress and Talzin surviving. It only makes sense if Elsbeth is from different tribe and the events are from different massacre.

 

If you so insist, you can call it a second massacre, if Grievous waited several days on orbit for reinforcements, including gunships, and for his hand to be fixed, before beginning to wipe out other clans.

 

Why would he need reinforcements? It was an overwhelming victory. We had seen it in the episode. He did not suffer much losses. Why would he wait several days?
It's just stupid and doesn't make sense. But whatever. I am done arguing that. Given that Disney and Filoni lately do most of the things stupid, I best prepare myself for this stupidity, instead of counting on common sense.

 

I would ask why bother watching if it's stupid, but I've been watching most of the Star Wars TV stuff and, besides Andor, it's been rough sailing