"that boy is our only hope" "no there is another"

huh, that would have been weird if luke failed and leia became a jedi!

 

The funny thing is when I first saw ESB (a long loooong time ago) I thought he was reffering to Han Solo....Now that would have been some shhhhhh

 

Weird indeed.

Whatever in meant in 1980, the 'other hope' being Leia can only be a reference to her being able to resurrect Anakin in 2005. The release of the prequels and the whole 'Prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force' means that any other option doesn't make any sense anymore.

For instance, Yoda's "Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the force as his ally, will defeat Vader and his Emperor." At the risk of repeating myself, Leia simply wouldn't be able to, with no training and no-one to train her. Episode III sees to that. Not even Yoda is able to stop the Emperor. Only the chosen one will be strong enough to destroy the Emperor.

Again, for it to be a reference to Leia stopping the Emperor means that the whole 'Balance to the force' thing that Lucas has been foreshadowing in the prequels has to go out of the window. It's pointless it being there, otherwise.

 

"help me Obi Wan Kenobi, your our only hope"

Leia can't see the future = she had an affair with an older Kenobi, and thinks he is the last hope.

Just kidding, I'm being a wiseass

 

So... Obi-Wan had just forgotten that Luke and Leia were siblings? This did make sence before ROTS, but now that we know he saw their birth this is hard to believe. I do think Yoda might be speaking of Anakin.

 

I have to admit battledroid, this is one of the topics that I have had a bit of trouble reconciling. Why would Obi Wan not consider Leia as good an option as Luke when he says "That boy is our last hope." now that we know he was present at her birth? I don't believe we are to think Obi Wan forgot anything. I also don't think Lucas would leave a plot hole like this. We are invited to reevaluate the meaning of this exchange by Lucas. Unlearn what your have learned and all of that stuff. Still pondering it myself.

 

<<<Why would Obi Wan not consider Leia as good an option as Luke when he says "That boy is our last hope." >>>

Likely b/c Leia has had no ounce of training by a true Jedi, in ROTJ, Luke is going to face Vader, it is soley up to him as he is the only one who has received some force training from a Jedi Master.

That is it!!!!!
When Obi says this, he means it, Leia is written off at this time b/c she has no training at all, and Luke has no time to teach what he has learned before facing Vader.

THE OTHER HOPE YODA SPEAKS OF, IS ANIKAN!!

1st Hope - Luke
2nd Hope - Anikan and the fullfillment of the Prophecy and the Chosen one.

 

Did I miss something? Did they delete the line 'the other Yoda spoke of is your sister' on the DVD version?

 

Hahahahahaha,

I am sitting here laughing.....

You see what these movies do to us....

I just watched ROTJ last night and listened the the line.

I am fried.

 

Doc:

Good thoughts. When the line is said, it is still the ESB though. What's to prevent Yoda from training Leia? It is really a rhetorical question because I say the answer is nothing. Credence to the thought the Yoda is referring to Anakin after ROTS.


And then Crush brings up a good point. I love it. It is the only plot hole I can't reconcile and so what. The films are still great.

 

'the other Yoda spoke of is your sister'

Ben may be refering to the other hope...

But Luke is asking about the other Skywalker. He can't be asking about the other hope, because he never heard Yoda say this.

 

<<whats to prevent yoda from teaching leia?>>

who would contact her? obi-wan? the 2 never actually met one another. i think at this point in the story, leia wouldnt believe she had this "gift". she was still skeptical in jedi.
luke then? it doesnt seemed like he ever mentioned yoda to leia, or that he was still hearing and seeing old obi-wan for that matter.
fact is, if it came down to needing leia, luke would either be dead or a sith, there would be no way of preparing her. also yoda dies in jedi. not long after empire.

 

Yoda said 'there is another... sky... wal... ker'. After that, when Obi-Wan says to Luke 'you were(are? I can't remember) our last hope' Luke says to Obi-Wan 'Yoda spoke of another'.
I think it's safe to assume here that Luke knows that the 'other hope' is the same as the 'other skywalker'.

Uncertain the future is, indeed. Even if it's not plausible that Leia would be able to be fully trained and become good enough to face Vader and the Emperor she was still the other hope and the other Skywalker because she was the only other offspring of Anakin.

 

Why would Obi Wan not consider Leia as good an option as Luke when he says "That boy is our last hope."

Because Leia is already in the hands of the Sith. Darth Vader already has her, and he's using her to capture Luke.

Obi-Wan is writing her off here because Luke is the only Skywalker they can "control" and, by running off, he's jeapordizing being their last hope. They can't count on Leia as long as Darth Vader has her. Yoda doesn't count Leia out, though, because she still can escape.

 

At the time of ESB, the other hope was intended to be Luke's sister, which was not supposed to be Leia. This sister would figure prominently in episodes 7-9 in defeating the emperor. That is why so much attention is brought to this line--the audience is led to believe there is another great jedi in waiting--which was the original intention.

When the plan for episode 6 changed, however, the line changed to now refer to Leia. However, due to this last minute change and Leia's minimal impact to the overthrow of the Emperor, the line lost its luster. At least it did for me. After I watched ROTJ, I was like wait a minute, the great hope that yoda talked about in episode 5 was just...Leia. It didn't seem to fit but this is precisely b/c of the change in the filmmaker's intentions.

So anyway, with the introduction of the prequels, you can make the argument Yoda is talking about Annakin. I don't go with it though b/c (1) when Yoda says, "there is another" he implies he is talking about a person not an event, (2) if they are hoping for an Annakin redemption, then the hope is Luke--not Annakin. They need Luke to turn Annakin, & (3) the original intention was for it to be his more prominent sister.

But I do think that you could go with the other hope being Annakin without major plot problems. In fact, you probably have LESS plot problems than if it is Leia--Remember, in ESB Yoda doesn't even want Luke to save Leia. And don't argue that Yoda thinks it is a trap to get both of them. If Leia was the other hope, Yoda would probably be concerned about Vader being so close to his daughter.

But anyway, I'm not following why Obiwan saying, "the other is your sister" means the "other hope" can't be Annakin. As I remember it, in ESB, Yoda says, "there is another" while in ROTJ he says, "there is another skywalker." In ESB, couldn't he be talking about the other hope being Annakin while in ROTJ he is talking about Luke's sister Leia? So when Obiwan says the other is Leia, he is answering the "other skywalker" Yoda line not the "other hope" Yoda speaks of in ESB.

 

Good job Syfo! I agree with him.

 

This dialogue of Yoda's and Obi-Wan's is interesting.

TESB - "That boy was our last hope." "No. There is another."

ROTJ - "You were our only hope."

In TESB Yoda tells Obi-Wan that there is another hope but, come ROTJ, Obi-Wan tells Luke that he was their only hope, despite Yoda telling him in TESB that there was another. This dialogue leads me to believe that Yoda is indeed referring to Anakin.

It seems to me that Yoda and Obi-Wan have a fundamental disagreement over the fate of Anakin and the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force. Obi-Wan clearly believes there is no redemption for Anakin, despite Padme telling him that there was still good in him, and despite Luke telling him that there was still good in him. "He's more machine than man, evil and twisted." "I can't do it, Ben. I can't kill my own father." ".....Then the Emperor has already won."

We don't get any indication from Yoda that Vader should be killed. "One thing remains. Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be......and confront him you will."

I think Yoda believes that Anakin is still the one who will bring balance to the Force and Obi-Wan believes that it's Luke who will achieve it. Mace told him in AOTC that if the prophecy was true then his apprentice was the only one who can bring the force back into balance. Come ROTJ it's obvious that he has completely given up on the prophecy referring to Anakin. Obi-Wan by his own admission was not a great teacher, "I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong." He was wrong. He was wrong again about there being no good left in Vader, and he was wrong again Luke being the chosen one. It seems to me he's still smarting about the mistakes he made with Anakin and believes he can see a way to atone for his mistakes with Luke. I think he's letting his personal feelings get in the way.

 

I think that the other was obviously Leia, but she wasn't much of a hope, was she? After all, despite all his training, and even though Obi-Wan and Yoda seem to think that a fully trained Jedi knight can defeat the Emperor, Luke clearly could not. I think their hope that Leia could do the trick was misplaced. In fact, the Emperor was clearly invincible, and he would still rule if he had anticipated Vader's conversion.

 

The thing is, Obi-Wan says to Luke 'you were our last hope' to which Luke replies 'Yoda spoke of another'.
This, to me, makes it pretty clear that the 'other hope' and the 'other Skywalker' are the same person to them.

It would have been amazing if Luke's sister wasn't introduced until Episode VII. Oh well.

 

They wouldn't have placed so much pressure on Luke and even told him, "You're the last hope" had it not been so. I believe Obi-Wan wanted Luke to reveale to Vader that he had a sister thus placing more pressure on Anakin to turn. This is why Padme' say's there is still good in him and Luke say's the same. Anakin is the only hope it's easy to lose focus in the CT that the story is about Anakin and we get the feeling that it was about Luke, so we lean torwards Luke and Leia as the supposed saviors when in fact they are just a tool in the will of the force to complete the prophecy. The fact that Anakin realizes he has two children rekindles his love for Padme' even more so that if it where to just be Luke. Had Obi-Wan and Yoda not wanted to reveal Leia and had she been another hope they wouldn't have told Luke. They wanted Anakin to know.

 

Someone remind me, is there any evidence that Obi-wan knows that Leia is alive? I mean, he sees that Alderran is destroyed, and only Han and Luke find out that Leia is on the Death Star. Obi-wan doesn't really ever have any contact with Leia, does he? I mean, he's seen her hologram and all, but he hasn't met her as and adult. Are we to assume that Obi-wan is always watching over Luke, and therefore must know that Leia is there as well? Luke mentions Leia on Dagobah, but only to Yoda. When he chooses to leave, he goes to "save his friends", never specifying that Leia is one of them.


At any rate, I don't think that the prophecy should be focused on at all. At this point, Yoda and Obi-wan probably think that the prophecy was totally bunk. Anakin didn't bring balance to the force, he went to the dark side. It's safe to say that Yoda and Obi-wan have given up on Anakin.

 

This will be explained in the sequel trilogy (ep.7,8,9) You will learn that the "other" that yoda spoke of was Mace Windu, who had been hiding out after his "supposed" death on Coruscant.