The “death” problem

What is this? Dragon Ball?

 

I think we should get that list from the other page going:

- Vader survives having limbs chopped off and massive burns
- Maul survives being cut in half
- The Grand Inquisitor survives a stab to the mid-section
- Reva survives being stabbed by a light sabre twice
- Cal Kestis survives being stabbed by a light sabre
- Palpatine survives somehow being thrown down a very high shaft
- Boba Fett survives being swallowed by the Sarlacc pit
- Boba Fett survives a dumpster fire of a TV series
- Boba Fett survives having his back broken by Krrysantan
- Said wookie survives numerous shots and attacks and walks it off
- Fennec Shand survives a point blank shot to the mid-section
- Ahsoka survives an encounter with Vader due to time travel
- Thrawn survives being on a broken ship pulled into hyperspace
- Ezra likely survives same situation AND with a blaster shot to the shoulder
- Vanth survives a blaster shot to the shoulder (at least this one is believable!)
- Hunter survives a shot to the chest from Bane
- Chewy survives a fake out death scene
- C3PO survives a mind wipe
- Luke survives ST character assassination
- Leia survives extreme space exposure
- Finn survives getting his spine sliced and diced
- Rex survives a shot to the heart
- Echo survives being blown up
- Finn and Rose cannot die in episode 8 despite their best efforts to do so
- Gregor survives being surrounded and blown up
- Jar Jar cannot die despite being an imbecile in a battle

 

There two separate issues.
One thing is heroes surviving against bad odds because they have plot armor. That's also something that should be toned down a little, but it's pretty standard for action/adventure stories like SW.
The other problem, which is much worse, is when there is a situation of death, with the corresponding sense of closure in the scene, just to later backtrack because the writers like the characters too much. That's what is really problematic. There are several deaths that are perfect the way they are, and the resurrection detracts something out of the good death scene rather than adding.

 

Look at darth sion from KOTOR 2 and you have you're explanation. Some sith are so angry and hateful that tgey cling on to life and refuse to die. Same goes with Sidious.

 

I'm not saying it makes a lot of sense, just some

 

OK, OK. Here's a counter-list.

I give you:

1) Ewok dies following AT-ST blaster fire.

I need not add any more because the emotional maelstrom of that scene is the sole reason why everyone who died since, has returned.

 

I'd also say there is a difference between a character that was build up as sort of an undead from the get go (which was over the top to begin with, even if not quite as over the top as Nihilus), and killing someone off and then bringing him back later.


Killing off a character and bringing him back later on can be an interesting story-arc, provided it is done with care and there is a convincing reason in the story itself. And with that I don't mean "the character looks cool" or "some fans loved the character". It also should be an extremely rare exception, if used at all. One of the big reasons is that is simply weakens the story-telling, both for the story in which the character died, and for future stories in general. If you constantly bring back all sorts of characters, death loses all meaning. Star Wars has overdone this lately, not just in terms of actual deaths, but also fake-outs and wounds that should have been deadly but miraculously weren't. There are cases where such a thing came with the necessary gravitas, e.g. Ben Solo sacrificing himself to save Rey. Regardless of what you think of the execution, the idea still carries the necessary weight in that to overcome death Ben has to die himself. But for the most part it follows no rhyme or reason, being added more for the shock-effect than actually being thought through in terms of repercussions to the story.

I can't really think of a single return from the dead that offered anything you couldn't have achieved through other means. Not counting "returns" like in KOTOR, where the character was never dead to begin with.

This issue, including fake-outs and severe injuries, is my main complaint I have about the franchise at the moment, alongside the misuse of stomtroopers and henchman in general, which rob scenes of suspension due to how easily every rando can just waltz right through them. They would be so easy to avoid, which would beneftit every single storyline.

 

But is it merely a coincidence that Pernilla August was in "Glitch," a tv series about a group of dead people who mysteriously come back to life?? hmmmm??? (Okay, fine, yes, it is just a coincidence.) Incidentally, Mon Mothma was in that show, too. But she never died or came back to life in SW, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

 

Nah, it's all leading up to Wade coming back. WADE!!!

 

I agree with you about all of above. I like the majority of what Filoni has done so far and as much as I loved Maul in TPM his resurrection has always bugged me. He was/is a fan favorite but rather than bringing him back they could have opened up stories from his origin and his time with Palpatine. I can't think of anyone who would have complained about more Palpatine involved material.

Ahsoka is a point of contention for me too. At this point she's outlived the Skywalkers through all the GFFA time periods which is ridiculous. She faced Maul and lived? She faced Vader and lived? GTFOOH. Before I am accused of being sexist, I'm female and I have no problem with strong female characters but this makes the character more annoying to me than the fact that she was Anakin's padawan.

IMO every resurrection and convoluted healing explanation definitely takes away from Anakin's motivations and actions that shape the Lucas films. Honestly that's what bugs me the most. There's zero consideration given to how it messes with those parts of the story, not to mention how it now makes a lightsaber's effectiveness practically null and void unless you want to cut through hangar doors.

 

The notes for Palpatine in that list above are incomplete. It should say "exploded in a freaking nuclear reaction and was torn into particles and energy"

 

turns out Mon Mothma was kidding when she said ‘many bothans died to bring us this information’

she meant to say ‘somehow many bothans returned to bring us this information’

 

Okay, this is my favorite comment of the day.

 

Just to clear this up, Maul's survival wasn't Filoni's idea. It came straight from George Lucas, who had regretted killing him in the first movie he appeared. All Filoni did was actually make it somewhat believable that Maul survived and spiraled into madness while being kept a prisoner for consumption from this weird creature. This was an amazing Clone Wars story arc and Maul's survival brought so many more after.

 

I think most of us SW superfans can accept that darksiders have abilities that others don't, but if this is true, then why would youngling Reva survive? That strains believability even in SW.

And this also makes Vader look bad -- he has stabbed Reva twice now and can't kill her. Even if he doesn't care about really making sure she's dead for whatever reason, it creates awkward narrative moments for non SW superfans. Most of them are scratching their heads wondering why Vader and the Inquisitor would leave her alive.

And with the bacta tanks, it seems everyone has one and it's just entirely too easy to heal oneself in the GFFA. Well, unless you're Qui-Gon.

The powers that be should seriously considering limiting characters access to bacta. Its mere existence robs tension from these stories.

I think a good reason to start telling SW stories in a different time period is that they can correct some of this and say that those magical healing portions are gone.

This all connects to the stormtroopers too -- people watch hundreds of troopers missing easy shots at untrained civilians in a narrow tunnel. The enemy becomes so worthless, whatever the reason, that the action becomes meaningless and tensionless. And when someone like Tala does die, the emotional impact is blunted by the arbitrariness of the decision to kill her. Because, as we know, the only reason she dies is because the writer decided she would. The in-universe cause and effect has zero to do with it.

The SW universe has become a joke when it comes to death and tension, and I agree that a major course correction is necessary.

 

It was a terrible idea no matter who came up with it.

Let’s say ROTS came out before ANH. It would be like if Vader burning alive on Mustafar was the last we ever saw of him, and then in Episode 4 he’s just magically back and they hand waved it as him being rescued by Palpatine. Obviously that’s what happened, but if we weren’t shown how he survived, it would be incredibly lazy and stupid.

If you just watch the films, you would absolutely believe Darth Maul is dead (which is the biggest flaw in Lucas’ proposed ST outlines). Not only is he chopped in half then thrown down a reactor shaft, but he’s replaced as Palpatine’s apprentice by AOTC. And as Yoda says “Always two there are- a master, and an apprentice.”

 

is there an explanation as to why Jinn dies with lightsaber to gut stabbing but not Grand Inquisitor or Reva?

 

Well, at least in that case she lived because someone rescued her, not because she won the fight...