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Saga The “problem” facing Star Wars

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth Weavile, Jun 3, 2022.

  1. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    oh look, another thread that’s basically become about how awful Kylo and the ST are

    yeah, no ****, Kylo and the ST are awful, what actually is the purpose of this being a discussion in every thread?
     
  2. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Just fans still being salty,
     
  3. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Every thread must get derailed with a Kylo debate at least once. I think it's a law or something.
     
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  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    We aren’t going to *not* talk about the ST and Kylo when they are literally part of the opening post.
     
  5. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    But he doesn’t actually state anything to imply he wouldn’t have killed the Jedi if Luke hadn’t tried to murder him. The fact that him and his dark sider friends* immediately kill all the Jedi once Luke finds out Ben has turned rather than just running makes more sense if Snoke had convinced them to do it before the Luke incident went down.

    *the handful of students Ben takes/knights of ren the comics retcon
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    He does not have to outright state it. The implication is there; as an audience we are supposed to go along with Rey, to think that Luke deserved to be attacked, to think that Kylo’s “choice was not yet made” until that night.

    …which makes me think that Kylo told her that story (or OOU the script was written that way) to deflect blame from Kylo to Luke—and since it worked on Rey, it is supposed to work on us.
     
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  7. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    But if we think we can realize his choice was made prior to that night. That’s why Luke put the saber over him. He just hadn’t acted on his choice.

    Kylo takes responsibility for his actions he doesn’t blame anyone for his turn. obviously he wants Rey to see things from his perspective. But there’s nothing about presenting that which means the movie expects you not to see through him
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  8. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Fans are being salty for pointing out inconsistencies, not just between the OT and the ST, but also between each sequel movies?

    You don't care about it? Fine, we don't care about the fact you don't care about it. But don't blame the fans for the bad job that was done to the saga, as Disney and their shills did for the past years. We fans have the right to ask for a nice Cadillac to buy and drive, and not a Ford Pinto that might explode in our faces with a rear-end collision.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
  9. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Whenever i hear the word shill i cringe and stop listening. Fans told meny people certain Fans was paid shills for loving things others hated. And inconsistencies is just part of the Star Wars brand since ROTJ.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  10. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  11. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    i didn’t suggest this

    I asked what is the purpose of turning every thread into the same discussion?
     
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  12. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Everyone remembers Luke for throwing away his weapon, and refusing to kill his father (and don’t get me wrong that’s a very important character moment for him). But they also seem to forget that just moments earlier he was hacking away at Vader like nobody’s business.
    https://makeagif.com/i/QZHco1

    I simply took the incident in Ben’s on Ossus to mean that Luke didn’t just magically overcome his flaw of hotheadedness. Rather it was something he had to work to keep in check his whole life.
     
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  13. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    People who keep pointing out that Star Wars was always full of inconsistencies to justify (or excuse) the fact that the ST was also inconsistent with itself and the OT either never understood the material laid out in the OT, or are simply dishonest.

    Because these people forget that, after beating Vader, Luke looked at his own mechanical hand and then Vader's mechanical hand, realizing that he was about to become like his own father.



    There were no inconsistencies between the moment Luke went into a rampage against Vader, and then throwing his own lightsaber at the end, refusing to strike down Vader. Everyone in the audience understood that moment, every fans understood that moment. Why pointing out this moment as an inconsistency or as a reason for Luke to going after his own nephew?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
  14. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Did you really put in that twitter users who is a known fandom menace and comes out as knowb hater. He once disrespected Carrie Fisher and spoke ill of her. Whenever you qoute me you put out these known haters trying to prove a point. Ahsoka Tano was hated that is known in the fanbase, and Leia despite being a major character didnt do mutch in the trilogy, Carrie Fisher was dissapointed about the movies. Fandom Menace types always scenes when women and black people are involved.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
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  15. AvarandElzarsittininatree

    AvarandElzarsittininatree Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Lol are people still trying to carry on the argument that film journalists and reviewers get paid off or get threatened that they will lose their access if they give a bad review? For the people that actually believe that is true please come up with any shred of evidence that there is any truth to that at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  16. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    @Fredrik Vallestrand

    When people don't have any answer or argument towards the message or discussion, it's always better to attack the messenger. Typical of those who like to deflect.

    Like if I have the time to follow what each fan did or said or what controversies happened... Do you have lots of time to waste in your life?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  17. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Of course... When George Lucas and Mark Hamill come back and apologize for being a bit critical of Disney's decisions regarding Star Wars, it was genuine, they have never been approached by Disney's lawyers, and Lucas almost never had to sign a non-disparagement clause when selling the work of his life to Disney... Nothing to see here!

    Disney and Hollywood are known to be sacro-saint pure, gentle, good citizens corporations. I apologize as well for having ever criticized them as well. Even if they offer poor work conditions for their employees who work in the theme parks, and have thanked an authoritarian government who sends ethnic minorities in concentration camps for having letting them film the remake of Mulan in Xinjiang... But hey! They are all for equality and diversity, even if they have shrunk Finn's character in a promotional poster of TFA in some countries...
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  18. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    of course there’s plenty of fair criticism that can be directed towards the Disney corporation, I would even say this is the root cause of many of the problems discussed in the op and this thread

    but you kind of undermine yourself when you start linking to right wing YouTube videos and right wing Twitter accounts
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  19. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    When should I care about right-wing or left-wing people who comment about Star Wars? Are we talking about real-world politics, or Star Wars? I've never cared before about people's or fan's choices in real-life, or their policy when discussing about Star Wars before the strange era we got into. And I still don't!

    You can hear it from the maker himself: Star Wars' world, lessons and politics goes beyond the current time periods we are living in since they are timeless. That's what united the fans regarding the 6 original movies made by Lucas. And it is especially true today when American politics have become so dumb and stupid nowadays when people freely call each other "facists" or "commies" when there's a slight disagreement.

    So don't bring me up idiotic stuff like "oh he's a fascist plotting in Twitter or he's a commie! Don't quote him!" I have better things to do than trying to figure out if a person is a fascist or commie when talking about Star Wars. And I'm ready to bet most of the people in the U.S. have never met a real fascist, nazi or commie in their lifetime.

    But if you want to continue to bicker against each other in America, fine! Continue to do so! But spare us your collective stupidity! The world will be a much better place without you exporting your dumb ideas and stupidity, especially when American culture sucks nowadays: the downfall of Star Wars is the proof of that. That's part of the reason why I go watch more independent and foreign movies in international film festivals during the past years. Life is short and I don't have time get into personal dramas, although the drama behind the scenes in Disney and Hollywood have been more entertaining to watch than the content they've produced.

     
  20. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    I didnt attack you i question why add in Fandom Menace and right wring hare groups twitter feed and youtube videos. I get them when visit twitter, I follow a twitter feed that gives all bad takes from hate groups so I know not to listen to them. At best you are ignorant, I would check their profilen first and see if yhey ok before using them as argument.
     
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  21. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    I have a better advice for you: if you have a Twitter account, just quite it. It will be much better.

    I just happen to find the recording on Twitter since I've been trying looking for it through Google search. The fact that it was posted by someone you may not like doesn't mean the recording is invalide. I don't own a Twitter account, and I feel grateful for that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  22. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    You akso know that certain videos can be used to say things it dosent mean like that popular Mark Hamil video. I know its popular to critize the big bad coperation.
     
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  23. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Because it is a big bad corporation. When have people started to trust once again corporations when their main goal is money at all cost, especially when there's no check and balance or efficient control measures to prevent excess or abuse?

    Regarding the movie industry, individual tell good stories, not corporations, and we had the proof of that recently.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  24. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Concerning Luke lighting his saber over sleeping Ben, I've decided in my headcanon that didn't actually happen. Admittedly, Luke has a history of grabbing his saber when he shouldn't, as he did at the tree on Dagobah, and in the DS2 throne room. That impulse is still there, but I like to think he has more control over himself decades later. So he looked in on Ben, picked up a scary vision, and his first impulse was to grab his saber. But I don't think he actually did grab it, it was just a thought that flashed through his mind for an instant. Unfortunately, Ben awoke at that moment, saw his uncle, and their minds connected for a moment. In that moment, Ben saw that Uncle Luke was thinking of his saber. And as a Jedi does, Ben reacted before anything happened.

    I admit this is all a stretch, but it seems more in line with the Luke we all know and love.
     
  25. AvarandElzarsittininatree

    AvarandElzarsittininatree Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2021
    George Lucas should have apologized as what he said was just dumb and made him look bad. Mark Hamill was being paid to take part in the ST. If almost anyone goes online and criticizes the company that is paying them than they will be questioned about it. That is just how the world works in this day and age. People that don't want to abide by those unwritten rules often don't stay employed very long.

    In any case nothing you said provides any evidence that reviewers are paid to give good reviews. Please provide some evidence that that takes place.