The 12th EUC Starfighter Draft: Death Shovel - Come discuss the Future!

Somebody bribe them already. You know that's what they're holding out for.

 

Jello, want to hang it on Kypt?

You've said that you're leaning towards Jake and I've been leaning towards Ace, why don't we vote for whoever we're leaning towards and be done with this, since we're not getting anything substantial in arguments.

 

Here were the missions/ships/opponents and objects from X-wing Alliance that Ace had to do. These are taken from http://www.the-spoiler.com/ACTION/Lucas.arts/x-wing.alliance.1.html

Mission 1: Deep Space Strike Evaluation
---------------------------------------

* Craft: Y-Wing
Shield Rating: 75 SBD
Hull Rating : 40 RU

* Mission Objectives:
Cargo Containers: All Destroyed
Imperial Convoy: At least 25% destroyed
CRKC Sodrab: Destroy

* Opponents:
2 Skipray Blastboats
Large Gun Emplacements
2 Assault Gun Boats
2 Assault Shuttles
Some other vessels

Mission 2: Starfighter Superiority Evaluation
---------------------------------------------

* Craft: X-Wing (A-Wing, Y-Wing, B-Wing and Z-95 Headhunter also selectable)
Shield Rating: 50 SBD
Hull Rating : 20 RU

* Mission Objectives:
Alpha Squadron: All Destroyed
Beta Squadron: All Destroyed
Gamma Squadron: All Destroyed
VSD Marut Fighter Wing: All withdrawn or destroyed
VSDII: Withdrawn

PREVENT: X-W Green Destroy
PREVENT: CRS Defiance Destroy

* Opponents:
Imperial TIE-Fighters
Imperial TIE-Interceptors
Imperial TIE-Bombers

BATTLE 1: Clearing the Way
==========================

Mission 1: Convoy Attack
------------------------

* Craft: X-Wing
Shield Rating: 50 SBD
Hull Rating : 20 RU

* Mission Objectives:
Destroy Imperial convoy (100%)

Secondary objective: Determine contents

* Bonus Points:
(750) Destroy STRKC Scythe

* Opponents:
Strike Cruiser
Imperial TIE-Fighters
Convoy (laser fire)

Mission 3: Reconnaissance of Imperial Task Force
------------------------------------------------

* Craft: A-Wing
Shield Rating: 50 SBD
Hull Rating : 14 RU

* Mission Objectives:
Imperial Search Group: All Inspected
Probe Group Oracle: 100% destroyed
Probe Group Diviner: 100% destroyed
Probe Group Seer: 100% destroyed

* Bonus Points:
(500) Destroy CRV Badlands
(1000) Destroy DREAD Vigilance
(1000) Destroy B/CRS Cerberus

* Opponents:
Imperial Star Destroyer II
Bulk Cruiser
Modified Corvette
2 Corellian Corvettes
Dreadnaught
Imperial TIE-Fighter Squadrons
Imperial TIE-Interceptor Squadrons
* Difficulties:
You are heavily outnumbered and outgunned, so you can expect some heavy enemy fire

Mission 4: Rescue Echo Base Prisoners
-------------------------------------

* Craft: X-Wing
Shield Rating: 50 SBD
Hull Rating : 20 RU

* Mission Objectives:
Rescue Rebel Prisoners
Storm Unit: Mission Complete

PREVENT: ATR Storm Unit to be destroyed
Opponents:
Dreadnaught
Gun Boats
2 E/S

Imperial TIE-Fighter Squadron
Imperial TIE-Interceptor Squadron
Imperial TIE-Bomber Squadron

Nebulon-B Class Frigate (avoidable)

Mission 6: Stop Resupply of ISD Corrupter
-----------------------------------------

* Craft: B-Wing
Shield Rating: 100 SBD
Hull Rating : 60 RU

* Mission Objectives:
Imperial Technicians: 100% destroyed
Imperial Convoy: 100% Destroyed

PREVENT: Do not allow any technicians to reach the Corrupter

* Opponents:
Gun Boats
Xiytiar Transports
Nebulon-B Class Frigate
Some cargo vessels with laser defense MOB, CARG, CTRNS, CNVYR)

Imperial Star Destroyer II Corrupter
Imperial TIE-Fighter Squadron
Imperial TIE-Interceptor Squadron
Imperial TIE-Bomber Squadron

* Difficulties:
Watch out for enemy fire (especially the T/B at the end of the mission which launch
concussion missiles).

Mission 7: Destroy Imperial Sensor Net
--------------------------------------

* Craft: X-Wing
Shield Rating: 50 SBD
Hull Rating : 20 RU

* Mission Objectives:
Control Station and Main Sensor Array: Destroyed

PREVENT: ATR Group Cloak: 100% destroyed
* Opponents:
4 Large Gun/Warhead Emplacements
Imperial TIE-Fighter Squadron
Imperi

 

Kypt?

 

Ace

 

And now, a bunch of matches go to teams.

 

Get your arguments before I have to destroy you all!

 

He has to post the matches first.

 

Tizzzeams.

Round 2:

Shalla Conference

Match 1: What is Cloverfield? Squadron vs. The Empress's Harem (and Menagerie) (5-3)

No

Match 2: My Little Ponies vs. That One Squadron (4-4)

Ooryl, Saba, Inyri Forge, Bror Jace, Syal Antilles, Alinn Varth, Rookie One, Piggy vs. Kyp Durron, Corran Horn, Tesar Sebatyne, Asyr Sei'lar, Octa Ramis, Edor Crespin, Garven Dries, Todra Mayn

Match 3: Stumble's team vs. Showboat Squadron (4-4)

Soontir Fel, Gunn Yage, Shira Brie, Evir Derricote, Broak Vessery, Alema Rar, Brodie Coburn, Lorrir vs. Han Solo, Wes Janson, Anakin Solo, Dash Rendar, Mace Windu, Lando Calrissian, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura

Castin Conference

Match 4: Red Squadron vs. Missing a Sith Squadron (5-3)

Need

Match 5: You Bring the funk, We Bring the Tyranny Squadron vs. sgt. Pepper's team (3-5)

For teams.

Match 6: Talon's Kenobies vs. Monkey Lizard Squadron (4-4)

Saesee Tiin, Obi-wan Kenobi, Adi Galia, Ace Azzameen, Horton Salm, Oddball, Nym, Ric Olie vs Tycho Celchu, Keyan Farlander, Jake Farrell, Nrin Vakil, Face Loran, Ton Phanan, Falynn Sandskimmer, SHALLA NELPRIN

 

That hasn't stopped people before.

 

Saesee Tiin <= Tycho Celchu
Obi-wan Kenobi <= Keyan Farlander
Adi Galia > Jake Farrell
Ace Azzameen >> Nrin Vakil
Horton Salm >> Face Loran
Oddball > Ton Phanan
Nym > Falynn Sanskimmer
Ric Olie > Shalla Nelprin

As you can see we have a very close top 3, but when it comes to the bottom I clearly have an advantage. After do research for Adi, I found a lot on Nym and his personalized star-fighter and can see that he is really under-rated. If I knew what I knew now, I think I could have argued him over the trump early. Tycho is one of the best pilots ever, but Saesee isn't far behind.

Force: Clearly Advantage to me in this category

Cohesion: There team does have some nice cohesion, but I do believe my team is better. Saesee/Obi-wan/Adi have all experience working together (Clone Wars/Stark Hyperspace Wars/random missions). Obi-wan and Ric have connection. Both Ric and Nym flew at the battle of Naboo and Nym has flown many missions with Gallia. Obi-wan and Oddball have connections too. And even Ace and Horton both were at Endor. There is a lot of connection up and down my team and that can't be overlooked.

Experience: Where my team is lacking but not as much as it would seem. Tycho, Jake and Farlander have loads of experience. But it seems to cut down there. The bottom of the Lizards have experience, but how much is known. Saesee and Adi have tons of experience being the top Jedi pilots. Obi-wan, who hates flying, is better then 3/4 the pilots on the board who love it. Nym has flown his entire life and well in the Rebellion. He even has his own personal fighter. Salm is the top Y-wing pilot flown plenty of missions. Ace has plently. Although Oddball and Ric are lacking a bit, they still survived some tough battles.

Skill: Again my team is filled with the best pilots of PT era (minus Anakin). So it is basically what I said above. I think my bottom field blows away the Lizards:

Intangibles: Obi-wan is one of the greatest Jedi generals of all time and born leader and motivator. Through in his mind meld ability and it adds a lot. Nym personalized ship also adds a lot to the battle, since it contains so many modification and is basically a missile boat in star-fighter form.


There are my arguments and I think that the PT team has more then enough to take this victory

 

Eww. I do not want to argue this match

 

Just admit defeat!

 

That was actually my first reaction, but at that time I was more just looking at your team and not so much comparing it to mine. But upon actually comparing them, it is much harder.



Basically in terms of experience and cohesion I think they are more or less equal. Your team has a slight edge in skill, and mine has a slight edge in the force. So that pretty much cancels out. What does that leave... leadership? I guess Kyp is more of a leader than Ooryl.

Bleh.

 

I place Saba as my leader, but Ooryl is a better pilot than her.

Saba created her own squadron and lead them through numerous battles (of course all offscreen) before joining up with Luke's Jedi. So Saba has spectacular leadership ability.

 

Oh just go the whole nine yards...

Besides sooner you people do that the sooner I'll judge.

 

Ooryl > Kyp Durron
Saba < Corran Horn
Inyri Forge > Tesar Sebatyne
Bror Jace > Asyr Sei'lar
Syal Antilles > Octa Ramis
Alinn Varth > Crespin
Rookie One > Garven Dries
Piggy > Todra Mayn

So in this case most of my pilots are better than his, skill-wise. He's got more force on his team. My pilots are more experienced as pilots. I'd put Saba as the leader since she created a squadron and lead them on missions. She taught Tesar and he's without his hatchmates (who she also taught).

 

Blarg, I have to do individual breakdowns against a team largely drawn from sources I don't know because I don't LIKE the PT era? Well that's annoying. I'll, uh, come back to that.

Force: My team is perfectly willing to use force. I mean, they're in the military, yes? Oh, you mean hokey religions and ancient weapons? Well, the only Jedi on my team was a pilot FIRST, and thus didn't have anything to distract him from learning to be an awesome pilot.

Cohesion: Well, it sure helps to have been born in the same era. I have three pilots who flew at the Battle of Endor. Nrin and Tycho were Rogues together. And then of course there's the Wraith unit that is the bottom four, including the best comedy team this side of a janitor's closet. Plus, the Wraith unit worked closely with the Rogues during the hunt for Zsinj.

Experience: Okay, so at the top we have career pilots that flew during the worst years of the Rebellion. So it's not just the TIME they've been flying, there's also the intensity of that experience. Surviving either Death Star battle counts for a lot just on its own. The Wraiths admittedly did switch over to being an Intel unit, but they still kept flying on occasion. Except Falynn, who is dead.

Skill: Best pilots of the PT era, what does that even MEAN? The PT era isn't really that big a pilot era (Which contributes more than a little to me not LIKING it ) I have skilled pilots from an era where piloting skill is BIG.

Intangibles: Sure, Obi-Wan is a leader, but how much experience does he have leading in STARFIGHTERS? Tycho has extensive leadership experience in this particular environment, which I think makes a difference. And while the Wraiths lack somewhat in skill, they make up for it in creativity. You have to figure out what game they're playing before you can try to beat them at it. Finally, everyone forgets that Shalla is even there, so obviously she's good for at least one surprise attack.

Finally, my team is just COOLER.

 

Experience leading star-fighter? He is pretty much THE general of the Clone Wars. He is known for winning when winning should never have happened. This includes ground and star-fighter combat. Tycho is a great leader, no arguing that, but an over-all better leader then Kenobi, probably not.

I am not sure what difference it makes that my pilots learned to be pilots using the force. When they are piloting they are using the force.

And are you saying the Clone Wars were not difficult? Due to how easy it is to create droids, they were always out numbered in pretty much ever battle they were in. They had to survive a lot on skill due to that. Not saying the Rebels were not out numbered, but thinking the battles during the Clone Wars were any worse seems kinda silly.


All my pilots have proven that they are more then average (maybe not Ric, but still has shown plenty of skill in the cockpit).

My pilots have more connection then just being in the same time frame. Saesee, Adi, Obi-wan all have experience together. Nym and Ric have experience together. Nym and Adi have experience flying together. Ace and Horton both at Endor. Oddball and Obi-wan together too. And I think even Saesee was there with them. Sure some may only be at one battle but there are connections through out.

Plus I have Ric Olie. He is the most observant person in the world and nothing will get by him!

 

Now if he only didn't speak every time he observed something...

 

In a cockpit? Yes, Tycho is going to be the better leader. That's where he's leadership experience IS. He's all about the piloting, which Obi-Wan ISN'T.

Being outnumbered by droids really doesn't compare to being outnumbered by actual human beings, which is the rough years of the Rebellion. What in the PT even comes CLOSE to the battles of Yavin and Endor for what it says about a pilot? So yes, considering the battles in the Clone Wars were against droids, the battles OT and beyond characters have gone through most definitely ARE worse. The PT is about Jedi, and this is the starfighter draft.

Mine have more connections than being in the same era as I laid out. But all being from the same era is definitely a BONUS. I have two separate units of cohesion, but they're units that have worked together in the past, as opposed to "these guys were in the clone wars and these guys were at Endor".

I will argue it to the end of time that being a pilot is a full time job. Being a Jedi is a full time job. If a person is learning to do both at the same time, something is going to suffer. And given the way Leia is portrayed for choosing to focus on the non-Jedi option, you can bet it's going to be the piloting. That's why it matters that Keyan was a pilot FIRST.

 

Round 2:

Shalla Conference

Match 2: My Little Ponies vs. That One Squadron (4-4)

Ooryl < Kyp Durron
Saba < Corran Horn
Inyri Forge = Tesar Sebatyne
Bror Jace < Asyr Sei'lar
Syal Antilles > Octa Ramis
Alinn Varth < Edor Crespin
Rookie One > Garven Dries
Piggy < Todra Mayn

Individual advantage at the top to That One Squadron

Skill is quite even, especially at the top. Syal and R1 in the bottom half see the advantage here go to MLP

Experience is an advantage to TOS. The bottom half of TOO, with Crespin and Dreis, is chockers with experience, which MLP can't match. The top is again even here.

Cohesion is an advantage for TOO. The Jedi mind meld will be useful, and both Kyp and Corran have experience leading non Jedi pilots well, something which Saba lacks. There's also stronger connections on TOO's side.

Force. Big advantage to TOO

Overall - whilst this match appears close, That One Squadron has the advantage in most of the key area's of teams.

Winner - That One Squadron

Match 3: Stumble's team vs. Showboat Squadron (4-4)

Soontir Fel > Han Solo
Gunn Yage << Wes Janson
Shira Brie => Anakin Solo
Evir Derricote < Dash Rendar
Broak Vessery > Mace Windu
Alema Rar < Lando Calrissian
Brodie Coburn = Quinlan Vos
Lorrir > Aayla Secura

For me, Individual is too close to call, with the Janson advantage over Yage being matched down the list.

Skill is an advantage to Showboat, as most of these pilots, especially Han, Anakin, Dash and Lando are known for feats of skill, moreso than there opponents.

Conversely, experience goes to Stumbles. A lot of Showboats pilots have limited time in the cockpit, whereas Stumbles pilots have overall spent a lot more time in the cockpit, especially Soontir and Vessery

Cohesion is the clincher for me in this match. Having Soontir as a leader really helps Stumbles team, as all the imperial pilots would have great respect for him and his accomplishments (even the legacy Empire pilots). The main problem here is Alema, although with Lumiya around she should be kept under some control. Showboats connections are much more personal, especially for Han/Dash, Han/Lando/Anakin and Mace/Quinlan/Aayla. Anakins knowledge of the mindmeld will help the force based pilots cohesion. The diverging leadership styles of Soontir and Han also would play a part, although I feel that Soontir, overall, comes out on top, despite Han's ability to surprise.

Force - Advantage to Showboat, although Alemas BM will help Stumble.

Overall - This is a very even match, and I wouldn't be surprised if the other judges went the other way. However, I see the difference here being the leadership in this match, and with Soontir the superior leader, I see Stumble's team coming out on top

Winner - Stumble's team

Castin Conference

Match 6: Talon's Kenobies vs. Monkey Lizard Squadron (4-4)

Saesee Tiin < Tycho Celchu
Obi-wan Kenobi < Keyan Farlander
Adi Galia > Jake Farrell
Ace Azzameen > Nrin Vakil
Horton Salm > Face Loran
Oddball > Ton Phanan
Nym > Falynn Sandskimmer
Ric Olie > Shalla Nelprin

Individually, Talon's Kenobi's has a large midfield and lower advantage, which more than negates MLS's advantage in the top two.

Skill - Again, I find the advantage to be TK's, again because of the midfield, with Saesee and Tycho being roughly the same in this regard.

Experience - The advantage of MLS's top three in this regard gives them this category slightly, even if TK's have the advantage at the bottom once again

Cohesion - Tycho is the better leader here, and they have some nice connections, especially between the Wraiths. Whilst the Saesee/Obi/Adi connection is very good, it doesn't make up for the lack of cohesion towards the bottom.

Force - TK's

Overall - MLS really suffers from having a sub-par bottom group, especially as most of the Wraiths aren't 'career pilots' (). Their slight experience and cohesion advantages are not enough to overcome

 

If the Lizards can have a sub-leader, I sure have one in Salm. Even if my team broke off into two squadrons with the Jedi and Oddball (since we know how to handle the Jedi's craziness) going to do there own thing, Horton is more then capable of leading the rest of them. Heck that might even be better in a battle, since they basically have two groups with very experienced leaders. In a fight like this, the top dogs usually go for each other. As said, although my top two are weaker, they are not that far behind the Lizards top two. However, the skill of Ace, Salm, and Nym are more then enough to take out the backfield and my top players.

Also, Kenobi still has his mind-meld ability where he basically can feel what everyone around him is doing and help signal other people on his team. That would add a lot to the cohesion of my squadron.