Games The 26th Jedi Draft - Congratulations to our victor, KenKenobi!

First, nice job on the letter getting in.
Second, the reason I can't access my own copies is they are in storage. And of course the one copy of the key I have is... locked in my office which is still under the quarantine order.

So, I am going off of what I can find in the books I have and the online resource available to me. I will say that multiple sources spout the part of Yoda knowing 7 forms. If I find the original source, I will share it. So with Yoda 'jumping around' there are times where he does not do this. In fact, we see it in Ambush and a few other times where he is literally just running around with his saber close to the ground. So that is why I am not entirely sure I buy that he only can use Ataru- it's his default form for sure and it is one of the hardest to master which is again saying something about Yoda's skillset. But there is evidence throughout that Yoda knows the other styles well enough to adjust - especially if he knows his opponent. But again, this goes back to us assuming Yoda runs in saber blazing against Obi-Wan instead of first conversing. Yoda's a talker. He talked to Dooku. He talked to Sidious. He talked to Ventress. He'll definitely talk to Obi-Wan. And the the next step is the force. And then, if it gets there, then it is sabers. We've established this much. And Obi-Wan is a talker too so we can gather that the first 20 minutes will be a nice chat. After that, some fancy force work and then if it gets to it, actual dueling (unclear if they take a snack break )

Do we seriously believe that Obi-Wan never dueled Yoda in the Jedi Temple for training? We've seen evidence in other media of jedi masters doing this (Mace against Quinlan Vos for example). And in order to keep his own skills sharp, Yoda certainly trained outside of just youngling instruction. So again, Yoda knows Obi-Wan's fight style. From when he was a child, to an apprentice, to a Jedi Master. He's fought beside him plenty. And that does in turn mean Obi-Wan knows Yoda's style and moves, but Obi-Wan himself is the one who constantly defers to Yoda.

Also, I definitely spoke about Obi-Wan in Rebels later in that argument. I know I did. The whole reason Maul loses is he's blinded by anger and he doesn't change his fighting style, allowing Obi-Wan to easily stop him because he was prepared for the same move that killed Qui-Gon.

As to Dooku, so I am guessing that is the ROTS novel? Because the visuals are less impressive.


First few minutes, Obi-Wan gets pushes to the ground. Anakin and Dooku duel while Obi-Wan takes out the SBDs. Then AS SOON as he rejoins the fight, Dooku takes the time to kick Anakin and to force choke Obi-Wan and slam him into the catwalk and then has enough time to bring it down on him before returning to fight Anakin.

Yeah, sith lords are your "specialty" indeed. He specializes in getting beat up by them.

Seriously, with how often Dooku pushes Obi-Wan around, is it really out of the realm of possibility that Yoda, who has pushed tons of droids, large ships, and lifted large debris and an X-Wing, might not land one good force push on Obi-Wan into a bulkhead? Because Dooku seems to do it with ease.

The problem I keep coming back to is how Obi-Wan has continuously fared against Dooku. However you want to look at it, Dooku was Yoda's apprentice and Yoda more than held his own against Dooku (causing him to flee twice). We also see how Obi-Wan handled Ventress who trained under Dooku and Grievous who trained under Dooku. And we've seen how Yoda handled Ventress while Obi-Wan faced obstacles with her. It's all of those visuals that make it hard for me to see how Obi-Wan takes out Yoda without prep time.


And now the side tangent:

So, keeping in mind Yoda found the bodies of the kids and also later learned that Padme's death was the one Anakin was so worried about that it drove him to the dark side, I'd say Yoda's advice makes perfect sense:

Anakin: Senses suffering and death of someone close to him. Driven by death of his mother. Does everything to stop it. Even indicates as much to Yoda. "What must I do to stop this?"
Luke: Senses suffering of Han and Leia. Fears they may die. Yoda states that it's too difficult to tell their future: "If you leave now, help them you could, but you will destroy all that they fought for". And in effect, Yoda is right. Luke doesn't save Han. Lando saves Leia and Chewie (who then basically save themselves) in the end its Luke that needs a rescue. He also feels that Luke simply wasn't ready to face Vader:

As to Luke redeeming Anakin. Again, Yoda knew Anakin as a boy and then witnessed him murder kids and betray an entire order because of his attachments.
So, if you are trying to train someone else and want to avoid that, probably best not to encourage the same habits of putting emotions first.
Also, and this is the part that seems to always be missed: Yoda tells Luke to CONFRONT Vader. Yoda never tells him to kill Vader. So take of that what you will.

So really, Yoda was doing his best to prepare Luke, but he actually doesn't say go kill him. He says confront him and beware the power of the Emperor. Take that as you will.

 

minch my dude, there's not "multiple sources" if you can't actually name any haha. I see you in the JCC enough to know you know better.

I can't just say "Multiple sources say @Yodaminch MURDERS puffins because they resemble porgs!" Or can I...

(lol it doesn't really impact the arg at this point, I just wanted to make that joke)

I think the convo becomes a bit of a swirl here unfortunately.

"Yoda runs with his saber close to the ground" doesn't answer any of the logistical challenges of switching forms against Kenobi's particular brand of Soresu.

Again I'm not saying he can *only* use Ataru. I'm saying-- moreover, sourcebooks & Mace Windu say-- that it's what he has to use to be most effective. That switching to another style isn't advantageous here, it's a liability. Yet not switching makes him prone to tiring out and allows Kenobi to work for an opening, aikido-style.

Re: power, again, if a judge thinks Yoda will Force Squish then that's that. Done deal. But Yoda just doesn't use offensive Force powers like that in any of his elite matchups (Dooku in AotC/DR, Sids in the Moraband vision/RotS). He responds to power, deflecting their moves and the like, but doesn't open with them-- which is why Kenobi is such a bad draw for him, as someone who similarly reserves Force power until pressed (Durge one and Durge two, Grievous, Anakin's Force push which I hope to god someone clicks on this). Kenobi's not gonna attack with lightning or Senate pods, he's gonna be patient with his blade.

Well I just outlined...

A) The reason Kenobi struggled against Dooku's Makashi, and how he fixed it

(Re: RotS-- The portion of text I quoted takes place when the camera zooms into Palps-- it lines up perfectly with the push that follows both, and then Dooku has to cheat by attacking Kenobi with super battle droids, in the exact way you've been giving Yoda credit when Dooku cheats against him. Without that caveat, Yoda doesn't have any major definitive victories outside of early TCW Ventress.)

and

B) How Yoda would struggle to use Makashi in the same way here

...so beyond that, it's pounding the drum of Dude A beats Dude B b/c he did better against Dude C. Common opponents can be a useful comparison, but especially at the higher levels, that's not necessarily how matchups work. For example:

--The 2007 Giants lost twice to the Cowboys, both by double-digits. The 2007 Patriots hammered that same DAL team 48-27.

--2011 Giants: lost twice to Washington, both by double-digits. 2011 Patriots: beat WAS 34-27.

But we know what happened in the Big Dance. Brady had a drastically lower passer rating than his regular season avg-- because both times the Giants had a no-blitz, pass-rush matchup nightmare for him, in the exact way Kenobi's balanced Soresu is more a problem for Yoda's brand of Ataru than it was for Dooku's Makashi (early on). The spread might say Yoda (-2.5), but the gameplan and analytics say Kenobi.


And just curiously, I don't understand bringing up Grievous haha-- it's a stellar showing. GG says "I've been trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku"...and then gets dismantled. Kenobi faces 4x the blades at similar or faster speeds than Yoda can move, and just stomps.

When they later fight hand-to-hand it has little to do with Dooku's training, and only happens b/c Kenobi lost his saber riding Boga (not disarmed by Grievous). Even then he rips a magnaguard staff from GG mid-chase, crashes his wheel bike, and drills him into the ground before getting thrown down and to the edge...but of course resourcefully blows him away in the end.

And you can't ding Kenobi for hitting buzzer-beaters from a ledge when Yoda can't even hold up his bodyweight on one in the Senate and then scampers away lol

--

On a final note: Yoda openly admits to Ghost Qui-Gon how he failed the old Order: "Changed, the Order did not-- because *let* it change, *I* did not" (pg 441, RotS). But while jaded in the jungle he still sees attachment as a "great weakness" (explaining why he hid the Vader truth, pg 60, RotJ Novelization). He literally, without ambiguity, tells Luke to sacrifice his friends:

Luke: And sacrifice Han & Leia?!

Yoda: If you honor what they fight for...yes.​

I get the idea, the fear he'd be like Anakin. But Luke made the right choice to ignore it, instead honoring those he cared for BY fighting for them...in the exact same way that turns Vader back to the light. That's the change the Order needed, the one that Stover alludes to, the one that Rey embraces when saving Ben down the line. In fact that's part of Star Wars at its core for me. I don't think you're gonna convince me otherwise, sorry man.

 

To argue my match:

Corran Horn is the Plo Koon of Legends material - pretty good in the SFD, but he sucks here.


Lomi and Alema are a natural pairing. Lomi has demonstrated the ability to drain the power from a lightsaber and deactivate it. She also has the ability to make herself invisible - even to a Force user as strong as Luke Skywalker. Alema also fights dirty - see her near stalemate with Mara Jade when she - despite Mara's defenses - literally dug her talons into Mara's neck.

I like Lowie. I like Tesar. Both are capable. But against those kind of tactics and this natural trump?

These three should get back in the cockpit

 

Well, if we are going text, I will just add this bit from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous:

Also this text from the AOTC novel:

So to summarize:

Yoda can multitask. He managed to rescue the woman Dooku tossed out a window while parrying Dooku's blows. Dooku landed some hits, but Yoda powered through the pain. Later Obi-Wan asks if he's hurt and he says no.

The other part of this goes directly to the comments about Yoda having to move around. It says it pretty clearly in the first paragraph: But Yoda didn't even seem to move. He didn't step back or to the side, yet his subtle dodges and precision parries kept Dooku's blade slashing and stabbing harmlessly wide.

So Yoda can both jump all over the place and subtly parry thrusts and barely seem to move. I believe one of the early arguments was that because Yoda relies on Form 4 it would require a lot of movement and jumping around. Here, Yoda let Dooku put all his energy into attacking while he calmly parried and blocked before he launched his own attack. So yeah, while I don't even think Yoda will come out saber swinging based on all we have seen with his fights, even then he'd probably let Obi-Wan make the first move. I would say that is consistent with Yoda's experience in the other forms as well as his role in training others. So again, I go back to: without prep, Obi-Wan just doesn't have the edge needed. You can keep claiming that Yoda is overrated, but all the material points to that not being the case. Clone Wars short shows him taking out entire platoons of droids with the force, the animated series shows multiple instances of Yoda fighting and using the force quickly and efficiently. And then we have novels like the above. If you want comics, I can pull that out next.

Spoiler: Yoda and the Mountain

Just the one image, but the context is this: Yoda lands on the planet, tries to figure out what is tearing it apart, is briefly captured because he refuses to harm children, trains under one of the children to learn about the living rock the mountain is made of, and then goes to confront it in an effort to save the warring people. But in the end yeah, Yoda stops a mountain- if only for a few moments.

So if we can stop claiming Yoda is overrated, that would be great.

 

Fantastic work gents. I thought this was clear cut, not so sure now.

 

I think you guys are missing some key components of your arguments:



and

 

Appreciate it @Darth_Furio. Args are all the fun

minch, I don't think those are the best examples my dude.

Surprised you even brought up DR, it shows Yoda powered down beneath like Darth Malak levels (who held Amnesia-Revan in place while dueling Bastila). He gets cut up by Dooks while setting a mom down with the Force, which punches a hole in the idea of Yoda dominating another elite talent with offensive Force powers while in the midst of dueling (which he he's never shown a predilection toward anyway). But c'est la vie.


The AotC text actually supports what I'm saying-- Dooks dives in and Yoda deflects...but in order for Yoda to strike back he *has* to launch into "leaps" and "spins." I've been saying the entire time that Yoda can try to switch Forms, it simply puts him at a disadvantage if he does. Just like here, where employing a Soresu-esque version of defense avoids Dooku's attack, but doesn't allow him to counter, and so he soon has to go into his full-on "never did Yoda seem to be on the ground" Ataru in order to strike at all.

And look at Dooku in both duels:

AotC, page 347: "Dooku went into a wild fury"
DR, page 316: "Dooku attacked with reckless abandon"

Both times Dooks employs a manic, aggressive offense "fueled by hatred" (DR). His beef with Yoda has him angrily attacking in a way fundamentally different from peak Kenobi's measured defensive style.

Again this plays precisely into what Kenobi wants-- he's not gonna jump in like Darth T. And he wants Yoda "flying forward" as the text says with traditional Ataru...where he can redirect momentum but also effectively counterstrike from those movements/parries in ways Yoda couldn't when using similar tactics. Not that Yoda would wanna try to out-Soresu the guy Mace considers the GOAT of Form 3 lol.


Finally, the "mountain" from the Vagadarr arc. Several things here:

1. It's not a mountain. It's a living creature, and was being manipulated by a faction of young Force-users called "Rockhawkers" who he battled to commune with it:

Spoiler: It's a "giant of living stone" being controlled like a puppet

2. Yoda wasn't fighting back by himself. He had the help of an entire rival tribe called the "Mud Dwellers" who then tap into the living planet to lift up similar "stone giants" themselves:

Spoiler: Yoda is "not alone" and his young allies control them too

So it wasn't like a display of telekinetic power. It was an instance of manipulating living rock (the comic calls it "stonepower" and it required its own track of training), against the control of some primal Force-users, and in a way that recently-trained-in-stonepower adolescents were also capable of.

Most importantly though...

3. The power thing isn't a major point of debate-- I'll say a 3rd time, I'm willing to admit based on other feats (not the "mountain" one) that Yoda is capable of accessing more and if a judge thinks a Force Squish ends it, that ends it. The problem is that offensive moves against another elite Force-user have not traditionally been his MO...that instances like DR with Whirry show the scale of power doesn't necessarily translate while dueling top foes...that Kenobi will not open the fight with Force powers for him to deflect or engage in an AotC pissing contest...and that in terms of mid-fight power showings against top-end opponents, Kenobi (exploding Durge and back-and-forth with unsuited Vader) actually stands his ground.


And since I feel like I'm kinda repeating myself a bit and I don’t want us to get trapped in circles, I'll just reiterate what I think sums up everything I've been saying: The spread might say Yoda (-2.5), but the gameplan and analytics say Kenobi.

We just had another real world comp on Saturday-- the stronger Spike "Alpha Ginger" Carlyle (all-time nickname) literally flew at Billy Quarantillo from the bell with a kick, blitzing him with strikes & takedowns. But Billy weathered the onslaught. He masterfully worked the mat to avoid the worst contact and was hyperefficient with his counterpunches (7/8 vs. Spike's 19/40). As it continued past Round 1, Spike got more winded while Billy got more comfortable using those flurries against him...moving his body into position for submission attempts and finding more openings to increase his own strikes (58 vs. Spike's 26 the rest of the way).

That fight ended in two things: One, a win for Billy's defensive brand of jiu-jitsu vs. the more energetic ball of fury that is Spike.

And two, the closest decision of the night.

I think both those things would ring true in this slobberknocker as well. @Yodaminch if you'd like something like a final word go for it. And good luck!

 

First the stonepower. It's primitive, but the clear indication is that the stone is simply part of the living force and Yoda learns to understand how to connect with it after training with the kid a few days (and yes, he is moving the stone so it is a display of TK just at a different level. He also uses regular TK throughout the story to push stones away and force push attackers). That really doesn't change anything I was saying. Yes, he has others help, but the majority of that power is Yoda. It's even in the captions right before your first scan "Every Jedi strives to be one with the force. To feel it binding to every part of the world around you. The jedi who truly does that is capable of anything his mind can imagine. And sometimes even more" This is simply another matter of Yoda's "judge me by my size". And the main point is his ability to constantly learn, train, and his stamina is also relevant here as well. And this is Yoda at a weaker moment.

Spoiler: Two more scans

and then yours for context:

He masters this ability over a matter of days. That's a demonstration of the power Yoda has. It comes from 800 years of training and wisdom and shows that Yoda is constantly learning and wiling to learn and as a result, he has learned many different abilities in all that time. Centuries of wisdom should not be underestimated. Do you think Obi-Wan is likely the first Soresu master Yoda has dueled? Or the first friend? On top of all of his many skills, Yoda is also one of the order's best strategists. So the idea he could not find a way to defeat Obi-Wan during a duel just doesn't make sense- especially given how well he knows Obi-Wan.

But if your argument is fully on dueling, then I fail to see how Obi-Wan fares much better. The first time the audience meets Obi-Wan, he chooses to sacrifice himself to save others and Vader kills him. But even then, it's clear it was because Vader was the superior duelist at that point. The next time we see Obi-Wan pick up a lightsaber is The Phantom Menace as an apprentice where he is taken down quickly by Maul and sent (by force push) into a pit. He manages to get out of that thanks to Maul's overconfidence, grab Qui-Gon's saber and bisect Maul. Then we get Attack of the Clones where Obi-Wan faces Dooku who manages to rather easily dispatch Obi-Wan with a few quick stabs (the same type of slashes he pulls on Yoda in DR but Yoda powers through). Yoda then sends Dooku on the retreat and saves Obi-Wan and Anakin. Then we have the Clone Wars where Obi-Wan duel Ventress several times. However in the one time where Ventress tries to attack Yoda, he defeats her without ever igniting his lightsaber. I've already shown other feats of Yoda, handling droids, using the force etc. I've established a few times that Yoda rarely ignites his lightsaber first- it's always his last move. Obi-Wan meanwhile faces Grievous and is only able to finish him by using a blaster (after nearly being thrown off a platform- Obi-Wan really has a thing about hanging around doesn't he?) and then he faces Anakin where the high ground gives him the advantage needed to pull a reverse Maul (this time its Anakin who leaps and Obi-Wan is ready). No high ground here.

You are arguing essentially on the duel every time that Yoda has to attack with his lightsaber. And I've said many times that Yoda does not. Because that is his MO-lightsaber last. My argument was that Yoda doesn't need to attack. You are arguing that in order to go on the offensive, he has to leap around. But he has so many other options before him, not the least of which is just using the force to push/pull Obi-Wan. Or, simply do what he always does: remain patient. Yoda is the embodiment of patience- to the point it drives his fellow jedi insane. Do you think he can't outlast Obi-Wan and rope him into attacking first? I said once before Yoda is a talker. Imagine if Yoda simply uses his words to taunt Obi-Wan into breaking his calm and gets him to attack recklessly- that seems to be the argument you made with Dooku attacking 'wildly'. Yoda goads him. Well, Yoda is known to do that. He did it to Luke in ESB afterall "Patience! For the Jedi it is time to eat as well." And he knows exactly where to hit Obi-Wan (Qui-Gon's death, failure with Anakin, childhood traumas) - Yoda knows it all. For over 800 years he's trained a jedi- from the time they were kids to when they were elders on the council. Yoda knows how to push buttons. He knows Obi-Wan's buttons.

I also think the fact you are comparing Yoda to Malak shows precisely the difference you are trying to argue. Yoda prizes life above all else. Malak doesn't care if Revan lived or died. He would easily have sacrificed one to save himself. Yoda's focus is on saving the woman and he still manages to defend himself in a place steeped with the dark side. It says it in the text, Vjun also gives Dooku a bit of a power up. And the whole reason Dooku resorts to that tactic is to give himself an advantage. Because in every fight, Dooku knows that he cannot beat Yoda one on one. He has a missile ready to launch because he needed a way to escape Yoda if the battle didn't go his way. In every single instance Dooku fears Yoda's skill. He even says it when he talks about how dangerous Yoda could be if he turned: He would annihilate Sidious. That is what Dooku believed.

And then we go into ROTS where after Palpatine blasts Yoda with lightning- a blast that would have just as surely sent Obi-Wan spinning into a wall given his weakness to force pushes- Yoda stops Palpatine from leaving. And again, fear on Palpatine's face, the statement that "You won't stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us" betraying Palpatine's own fear: that Yoda would kill him. Sure, he had clones somewhere likely by this point but his declaration was "If I die, Vader will finish what I started". And we see that further expanded in the vision fight between Yoda and Sidious in The Clone Wars. Where again we see Yoda multitasking- Fighting Sidious while holding an unconscious Anakin aloft. Now if you want to chalk that up to being a force vision, that's fine. But it's comparable to the abilities we've seen from Yoda and actually comparable to what you mention with Malak.

The argument here is that Yoda should solely be judged by lightsaber skills. My argument has been that Yoda is far more than just a lightsaber. And while he was considered one of the greatest swordsman of the order, he only used it when absolutely necessary precisely because he was so powerful without it. And with the amount of times Obi-Wan gets force pushed around, the idea that he wouldn't get hit by a force push from Yoda now seems unlikely.

Finally, the entire part of your fight analogy lies on Yoda tiring. But here's the thing: In a strict duel, we've never actually seen Yoda tire. Dooku cuts and runs and Yoda saves Obi-Wan and Anakin. You might argue he is tired then, but there is no indication he couldn't keep going- instead he just sighs and picks up his cane to head over to Obi-Wan. Then, there is Sidious where he only retreats because he lost his saber and reinforcements are on the way for Palpatine. In Ambush, he powers through the entire episode, stopping to let the clones rest and heal after injury before going right back at it and making his appointment with the king in the time he promised. In Dark Rendezvous, again, Dooku makes an escape and despite landing blows on Yoda, when asked soon after by Obi-Wan if he is hurt, Yoda says he is not and gets to work on getting off planet. Even if we go all the way to ESB when Yoda is at the end of his life and training Luke, he's not exhausted after the X-Wing lift or the other activities. He only pauses when Luke needs time. I mean, look at the whole timeline of ROTS and how much Yoda and Obi-Wan are running around. Yoda goes from Kashyyyk's battle, to killing Gree and fleeing, to rescue by Bail, getting back into the Temple and killing 501st clones, to going off to fight Sidious. So this tired argument just doesn't work based on the character we've seen. It has to be more than that. It has to come down to skill. And Obi-Wan's skill, while great, is not superior to Yoda's. Not with the force and not with bladework and both o those assessments are made by Obi-Wan himself at multiple points. He is awed by Yoda from the time he was a youngling to the end of his life.

Prep would give Obi-Wan an edge. I don't know if that would be enough, but he doesn't have it here.





Fun match. Thanks for the workout. It's kept me sane(ish) during this crazy quarantine.

 

Oh wait, one more thing-- the location, with the specific presence of Snoke, is no joke. If there's someone in this match Palps would wanna **** with via his puppet, it's Yoda. And vice-versa, the baggage Yoda carries re: Sids and his mindfulness about cosmic matters could have him very much distracted in what the hell Palps was doing there by proxy.

Whereas Kenobi's a student of Qui-Gon's live-in-the-moment ethos, and could prob care less about Snoke beyond "oh another wrinkly old guy." You can actually hear that in his voice lol

Anyway, have at it peeps

 

So where we at?

 

Round 3 Match 2

Rise of Skywalker Conference

Wang Chi (1) vs. Jordan1Kenobi (2)

1. Cade Skywalker vs. Shaak Ti
4. Jacen Solo vs. Ki-Adi-Mundi / Plo Koon trumped with Maris Brood
5. Ferus Olin TRUMPED with An'ya Kuro (FORFEIT) vs. Maris Brood trumped with Ki-Adi-Mundi / Plo Koon (FORFEIT)

DarthIntegral (2) vs. heels1785 (1)

1. Lumiya (prep) vs. Vodo Siosk-Baas
4. Lomi Plo TRUMP Alema Rar vs. Lowie/Tesar TRUMPED with Corran Horn
5. Alema Rar TRUMP Lomi Plo (FORFEIT) vs. Arca Jeth

DarthTunick (0) vs. Emperor Ferus (3)

1. Darth Nihlius vs. Darth Vitiate
4. Meetra Surik vs. Tahiri Velia/Ikrit
5. Te Corso vs. Darth Plagueis

Rise of Palpatine Conference

KenKenobi (2) vs. Yodaminch (1)

1. Obi Wan Kenobi vs. Yoda - So I'm going Yoda here and I really appreciate the arguments by both of you. In the end, Yoda was Grand Master for a reason and I really don't think we have ever seen peak Yoda frankly. Imagine a young and at his physical peak Yoda doing battle. Alas, even with what we have seen, Yoda is absolutely formidable in all of his battles against top tier opponents. Obi-wan gets owned by Dooku twice and unsuited Vader was not in the best state mentally on Mustafar. Then you add the Darth Maul encounters and all his Clone Wars (Asajj, Hett, Savage, and Grievous) battles and while obviously a very impressive resume, these are opponents that Yoda would finish quite quickly with the exception of Vader. I think that Yoda would also be able to distance himself emotionally more than Kenobi could, so there is a slight mental advantage as well. Yoda is a cut throat, "Anakin was your brother? F'em, kill that bastard. Get the job done." His knowledge of Force and other powers is beyond Kenobi's as well. It's close, but Yoda still takes it.

4. Luminara Unduli/Barriss Offee vs. Lord Hoth/Valenthyne Farfalla
5. X2 (prepped) vs. Satele Shan Grand Master here.

Jedi Knight Fett (1) vs. DarkEagle (2)

1. Darth Sion vs. Jaina Solo Fel
4. Tulak Hord/Naga Sadow vs. Kao Cen Darach
5. Darth Traya vs. Revan

BookExogorth (3) vs. RX_Sith (0)

1. Lord Scourge vs. Exar Kun (Prepared)
4. Darth Sidious vs. Sora Bulq
5. Darths Azard/Darth Havok vs. Bastila Shan

@Point Given @cubman987

 

Just a sidenote, I think if you qualify the duel like that it cuts both ways-- Kenobi had just watched his brother murder younglings/choke out his wife and was forced to put aside love for him to end it, which is also a pretty ****ed up mental state lol.

I think that's more cutthroat in action than anything we see from Yoda, who multiple times abandons the chance to kill Separatist leadership in order to save Jedi/random civilians (not that he shouldn't have done that, per se lol).

MANDALORIAN SEASON TWO

 

It's a good thing we didn't take any measures to try to shorten the games and the number of matches to judge.

 

Yeah, we really need to stop doing this. We kill these drafts just based on the matches alone. And to be honest, most GMs lose interest in arguing because of it. It's why I prefer judging most of the time. While we definitely have gotten better at drafting faster, we lose all momentum in the weeds of the matches.

Is it too late to look at a way to shorten this? (he says knowing he has probably lost the overall round to Ken and his porgs... )

 

I mean after this round the playoff spots are gonna be clinched-- JKF/RX are eliminated in one conference and Tunes (who already won the draft process)/Ferus are essentially not playing anymore in the other.

We could easily jump to the playoff tourney, seeding each conference 1-4 and doing cross-conference matchups (1's vs. 4's, 2's vs. 3's) like we have in the past.

@Darth_Furio challonge.com has a super simple bracket maker I've used here before. In fact we could probably make a communal account (it's free) and just use it for all the drafts. Starfighter, Muggle, Weird Thing Inty Comes Up With That Gets Malakili Involved, etc.

 

Maybe we should make it 48 hours for arguments each time with another 24 for judging. That way it's 3 days max between matches.

 

Unfortunately I don't think that'd help much in practice, Furio's got a new kid remember and can only get on about once a week.

And given a choice I think we'd prefer more long Kenobi/Yoda-like args over fewer (but more important) matches instead of vice-versa, yeah?

Nothin's gonna inject life in this place like Ahsoka vs. Baby Yoda in a playoff game

 

I would much rather have more Yoda/Kenobi arguments that really matter than more matches without arguments but that go quickly because we put a time limit on arguments.


And, here's what a playoff bracket would look like (no team names, just conference/ranking)

Skywalker #1 vs. Palpantine #4
Palpatine # 2 vs. Skywalker #3

Palpatine #1 vs. Skywalker #4
Skywalker #2 vs. Palpatine #3

 

I'm down, anyone disagree?

Also wouldn't mind seeing Luke fight Palps 4 times. I'm thinking RotJ Luke vs. Chancellor Palps, TFJ Luke vs. DE Palps, NJO Luke vs. RoS Palps, and of course...Baby Luke vs. Baby Palps.

 

Hell in a Cell, with special guest referee Baby Yoda?

 

Sorry guys, I know this draft blows in terms of time. In hind sight, I should of waited until September when I was back at work. I'll get the next round's matches up tonight.

 

Round 3 Match 2 - Results

Rise of Skywalker Conference

Wang Chi (3) vs. Jordan1Kenobi (2)

1. Cade Skywalker vs. Shaak Ti
4. Jacen Solo vs. Ki-Adi-Mundi / Plo Koon trumped with Maris Brood
5. Ferus Olin TRUMPED with An'ya Kuro (FORFEIT) vs. Maris Brood trumped with Ki-Adi-Mundi / Plo Koon (FORFEIT)

DarthIntegral (3) vs. heels1785 (3)

1. Lumiya (prep) vs. Vodo Siosk-Baas
4. Lomi Plo TRUMP Alema Rar vs. Lowie/Tesar TRUMPED with Corran Horn
5. Alema Rar TRUMP Lomi Plo (FORFEIT) vs. Arca Jeth

DarthTunick (1) vs. Emperor Ferus (5)

1. Darth Nihlius vs. Darth Vitiate
4. Meetra Surik vs. Tahiri Velia/Ikrit
5. Te Corso vs. Darth Plagueis

Rise of Palpatine Conference

KenKenobi (3) vs. Yodaminch (3)

1. Obi Wan Kenobi vs. Yoda - So I'm going Yoda here and I really appreciate the arguments by both of you. In the end, Yoda was Grand Master for a reason and I really don't think we have ever seen peak Yoda frankly. Imagine a young and at his physical peak Yoda doing battle. Alas, even with what we have seen, Yoda is absolutely formidable in all of his battles against top tier opponents. Obi-wan gets owned by Dooku twice and unsuited Vader was not in the best state mentally on Mustafar. Then you add the Darth Maul encounters and all his Clone Wars (Asajj, Hett, Savage, and Grievous) battles and while obviously a very impressive resume, these are opponents that Yoda would finish quite quickly with the exception of Vader. I think that Yoda would also be able to distance himself emotionally more than Kenobi could, so there is a slight mental advantage as well. Yoda is a cut throat, "Anakin was your brother? F'em, kill that bastard. Get the job done." His knowledge of Force and other powers is beyond Kenobi's as well. It's close, but Yoda still takes it.

4. Luminara Unduli/Barriss Offee vs. Lord Hoth/Valenthyne Farfalla
5. X2 (prepped) vs. Satele Shan Grand Master here.

Jedi Knight Fett (1) vs. DarkEagle (5)

1. Darth Sion vs. Jaina Solo Fel
4. Tulak Hord/Naga Sadow vs. Kao Cen Darach
5. Darth Traya vs. Revan

BookExogorth (5) vs. RX_Sith (1)

1. Lord Scourge vs. Exar Kun (Prepared)
4. Darth Sidious vs. Sora Bulq
5. Darths Azard/Darth Havok vs. Bastila Shan

____________________________________________________________________________

Round 3 Match 3

Rise of Skywalker Conference

Wang Chi (3) vs. Jordan1Kenobi (2)

2.Celeste Morne *prepared* vs. Kanan Jarrus / Ezra Bridger (prep)
6. Ganner Rhysode vs. Mace Windu
8. Aryn Leneer/Ven Zallow vs. . Adi Gallia / Saesee Tiin trumped with Agen Kolar / Eeth Koth (FORFEIT)
9. Vaylin vs. Ahsoka Tano

DarthIntegral (3) vs. heels1785 (3)

2. Darth Maul vs. Mara Jade Skywalker (prep)
6. Darth Vader vs. Corran Horn TRUMPED with Lowie/Tesar (FORFEIT)
8. Darth Malak vs. Qui-Gon Jinn TRUMPED with Baby Yoda
9. Desann/Tavion vs. Baby Yoda TRUMPED with Qui-Gon Jinn (FORFEIT)

DarthTunick (1) vs. Emperor Ferus (5)

2. Dace Diath vs. Gavar Khai
6. Gnost Dural vs. Darth Wyyyrlok
8. Zule Xiss vs. Marasiah Fel
9. Shigar Konshi vs. Roan Fel

Rise of Palpatine Conference

KenKenobi (3) vs. Yodaminch (3)

2. Asajj Ventress vs. Leia (PREP)
6. Xesh vs. K'Kruhk
8. Darth Jadus/Darth Nyriss vs. Sigel Dare
9. Darth Krayt vs. Shado Vao/Wolf Sazen

Jedi Knight Fett (1) vs. DarkEagle (5)

2. Mother Talzin vs. Jaden Korr
6. Cal Ketis vs. Nomi Sunrider/Oppo Rancissis
8. Sharad Hett vs. Senyal Tirall + Lana Beniko (FORFEIT)
9. Second Sister/ Ninth Sister vs. Arcann

BookExogorth (5) vs. RX_Sith (1)

2. Darth Maladi trumped with Darths Talon and Nihl (FORFEIT) vs. Rahm Kota
6. Lord Kaan and Lord Kas'im vs. Zekk
8. Lord Nyax vs. Rey Skywalker
9. Kar Vastor vs. Kyle Katarn

Again guys. Sorry for the delays. I'd like to get another round in for playoff separation. I'll try to be on more.

 

Ahsoka Tano vs. Vaylin

I'll try hard not to let my inner Ahsoka fanboy out for this. I haven't played The Old Republic in several years, so sadly never got to see the storyline with Vaylin. From what I read she's an absolute powerhouse with average lightsaber skills. Nothing wrong with that, but when you get put up against a master swordsman like Ahsoka, then you may be in trouble.

If we look at the location, it's just a small throne room. There won't be a lot of space for Vaylin to let loose. With this little area, Ahsoka wouldn't even need a second to reach Vaylin and lock blades with her. Once that's achieved, Ahsoka's great speed and skill would make it hard for Vaylin to keep up with her, and she'd also find it hard to be able to use the Force when she's so focused on the duel. We all know how amazing Ahsoka's track record is with lightsaber duels.

Plus Ahsoka is not to be underestimated with the Force. She's shown some really impressive feats. And to be fair, Ahsoka could probably hold off some of Vaylin's Force attacks in short bursts if they happened, like she did with Palpatine in Rebels.