Mini Series The Acolyte 1.03 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I suspect what really happened is that one of the Jedi started the fire in an attempt to destroy whatever knowledge or equipment was involved in creating the twins. They didn't mean for it to kill everyone but it got out of hand. After that, they lied about Mae starting it to cover up their catastrophic mistake. They rationalised that since Mae was dead (or so they believed), this was a victimless crime.

This could lead to Osha ultimately turning - her faith in the Jedi is founded in her firm belief in telling the truth, heavily emphasised in this episode. Once she finds out this fundamental lie, she will (understandably) feel deeply betrayed by them.

 

It really does not look like the Witches died because of the fire.
Their corpses were orderly gathered close to each other in the big room. If they were trapped into the room struggling for survival the bodies would be found everywhere and the room would bot be easily accessible.

 

I've read speculation that the Jedi poisoned them or purposely killed them some other way because they were a threat to them.

 

I find it interesting that Jedi knew about the Nightsisters but allowed these dark sisters to exist, even during the clone wars.

While in the golden age of the Jedi, it seems like the Jedi wiped a different group of witches out.

I just think this is a terrible story decision for the Jedi. You can show the Jedi having flaws without having them be murderers/suicidal (and following through with it).

Yes we had Anakin slaughtering the tuskens, but that was a unique situation and we know he becomes a Sith Lord.

Im just tired of being hit on the head with the message of “Jedi can be terrible/think they have a monopoly on the force”.

 

Fair point, they probably died some other way. Scratching my head as to how though - my first thought would have been they attacked the Jedi when they found out they were trying to destroy something important, and the Jedi killed them. But they don't seem to be armed and it doesn't really look like they died in a fight. Not sure it can be ruled out though. Intriguing.

I highly doubt what the Jedi did is going to be as unambiguously evil as "the Jedi pre-meditated an attack to wipe all the witches out". This isn't going to be remotely like the Tusken village situation in Attack of the Clones.

 

I'm thinking there's something sinister about the location of the facility on Brendok.
The best description I can think of is that it's like a dark side pitcher plant.
There might be dark side energy beneath the facility, which may have been at sometime a Sith temple.
The pit at the site of the ascension ceremony has me scratching my head. It reminds me of the hole on Ahch-To.
Why was the facility abandoned? If it wasn't a Sith temple, were scientists studying unusual phenomena? Were there forces that persuaded them to step into the abyss, in order for something to feed upon the life force of its victims?
Does the bad juju at this site lure force wielders into its snare, in order to twist them into servants of the dark side?
It seems like the expedition team of four Jedi had a lot of equipment unloaded from the ship. I'm inclined to say they were researching abnormal readings of Force energies on Brendok. Did the coven of witches just stumble upon the site, or were they lured to it through the Force? The Jedi may have also been lured in, to become unknowing players in a conflict crafted by the dark side, pitting witches against Jedi, with the goal of luring a victim to the side of the Sith. The Jedi may have been under the influence of the local dark side forces, or, the witches were under its influence, and then witches put a spell on the Jedi to kill the witches.

 

I will not comment on your opinion on the artistic or philosophical merits of the episode, as everyone is entitled to their own tastes. (I personally loved it.) But the second sentence is simply untrue. Leslye Headland is a massive SW fan, whose knowledge of the universe goes way beyond the films.

 

Somehow, "in an entire galaxy, some groups may think about or use the Force differently than the Jedi, since the Force is part of the entire galaxy, which is huge" has turned into "anything that isn't the Jedi is a destruction of Lucas entire work." Which is funny too since Lucas' work literally includes witches who use the Force differently.

 

Spoiler

Why does Osha abandon the Jedi? does it have something to do with the witches? and why does Sol say that he feels now ok about what happened with the witches? why does Mae want to kill the Jedi who were present that day?

 

I don’t think the introduction of a new group of witches is the problem for critics of this episode.

The issues lie in the implication that the Jedi wiped them out and also they can create life through the force. Some fans, myself included do not like those story making decisions.

Im sure if George had the Nightsisters creating life via force and were wiped out not by the Sith/CIS, but by the Jedi, that would cause some fan backlash.

 

It's crazy to me that people still struggle to accept that Star Wars over the years has been the product of hundreds, thousands of different creative voices, all of whom will inevitably interpret the universe differently in smaller or larger ways. That's how art works. George himself iterated on and reinterpreted his work all the time. If a person can't embrace that I'm not sure there's any point engaging in a fictional universe that has such a large number of authors.

 

This is a really interesting take! You might be onto something here!

 

Maybe its because I'm English and grew up in England and are far more liberal when it comes to certain attitudes.

Just enjoy star wars for what it is and ignore the hateful comments about this show for non technical reasons (and previous shows).

this isnt a bad show by any means but yes it does have some issues ( I think the dialouge is rather clunky and cheesy - but then again Lucas was like that)

 

I'm not 100% convinced that the witches ARE dead yet (as of episode 3's location in the timeline). I could imagine them using their magic to enter a state of apparent death. Six years pass between Osha joining the Jedi and Torbin taking the Barash Vow. What happened in between? Neither Indara nor Torbin seem surprised that Mae is alive (Torbin has been waiting for her), yet Sol and Osha DO seem surprised. I would not be surprised if there is a return to Brendok in the future (lesser past from the main timeline perspective).

Osha leaves the Jedi because she is unable to put aside her grief (and anger), which leaves her ill suited to the life of a Jedi.
Sol feels "ok" with what happened because it cannot be changed, and you have to be willing to let go and move on, learn/grow from the experience, and not dwell in the past or let it consume your present.
Mae wants to kill the Jedi because they took her sister away, and started a chain of events that led to her people being killed. Probably more to the story that we don't know, but I'd say we have enough even with what we do know to establish motive.

 

Honestly what is Star Wars about now? about the Skywalkers? about Emperor Palpatine? about the Jedi and Sith? the story of Star Wars has been so radically changed that i dont even know what it is about anymore in the EU there were important characters who were not Skywalkers but the Skywalkers were always the central part of the saga now it seems like they are just Random characters that existed in the franchise thanks to the Retcons of the Sequels and Acolyte you may like the new Star Wars products but you must accept that the new Star Wars content is moving from George Lucas vision and that not respects his vision at all

 

Wonder if Mae became the acolyte six years ago, and that affected Osha via their Force connection, so she finally decided to leave the Order.

 

I'm not sure that you understand what canon means. Has nothing to do with science fiction. It's an all encompassing term for any longer form narrative or medium.

 

Controversy? Move along, move along. There's nothing to see here.

An OK episode that moved the story forward in a particular direction. The flashback will be recontextualised via another flashback from a different point of view a la TLJ. I think there'll be 3 perspectives - we've had Osha, so Mae and Sol are yet to come. Don't think they'll be entire episodes like this one though.
The witches are just that - witches. Connected to the Force, but nowhere near as strong in it as the Jedi, and without understanding the difference between lightside and darkside: it's just a mystical power to them. However, because their coven is close to extinction they are dabbling in things that some consider to be... unnatural.
I wonder who's attention that brought?

It's not my favourite show, but it certainly has me invested in the story.

 

Spoiler

Im surprised that Aniseya and Koril didnt kiss in this episode in Rise of Skywalker two Resistance characters kiss at the end of the movie but on Wookieepedia says that Aniseya and Koril were a couple

 

It can be explained. The Jedi could feel that children were being trained somewhere in the system. They are checking planets as they go. They found them on this particular planet that they thought was uninhabited. (It is outside of the republic.)

Spoiler

I thought they clearly showed them as a couple in this episode, but without the need for a kiss.

 

Pretty rough 3rd EP. After a really good first two. The thread stuff is just dumb. "Destiny is not decided for you by an anonymous force".......except for the immaculate birth that comes 100 years later. The chosen one is just that, a destined force user. And I'm confused as to the intent of the writers/Headland when it comes to the coven because the Jedi don't look like the bad guys here. A witch possesses Torbin against his will, the girls' mother wants to kill the 4 of them because "whose going to miss them", whilst slamming them as monks as if they aren't superbly religious in their own right. Trinity was extremely polite in asking their mother to test them. The coven feels like they use dark side with the possession techniques. Id need to see the Jedi do something pretty bad for the coven to feel like the Jedi victimized them. Cuz even Sol says in this EP that "the Jedi don't take children".

 

I think that was the point
I could see in the end that we realize that the Jedi did something bad but because they thought it was for the greater good and that’s why they feel guilt about it…
… I don’t think the point until here was to present the coven in an all positive light or better there was only Aniseya’s attitude that was positive the rest screamed intransigent dark side cult … and about Aniseya I think she might have had some reasons to behave like that non forcibly good ones? we will see!
For me it was pretty obvious that the intent was to show that the coven has more than a few dark corners and something is up …

 

Hey, if you want to make it so in LOTR, the Orcs are the good guys or Sauron was being oppressed, yeah, you can do that. If you want to write Batman comic books where the Joker, Penguin, Two-Face, Scarecrow, Mad Hatter, Killer Croc, et al, are really the victims of an autocratic billionaire working with the police to crush free will in "his city", you can. If you want to write a STAR TREK series where you argue that life was actually better under the Borg, that the Borg were true multiculturalists who embraced the best in every society they encountered and discarded the worst, sure, you could do that.

And it's up the fan base to decide if they like these changes - because they are changes.

I don't buy the idea that the Jedi were always intended to be seen as oppressors, as jack-booted goons, as fundamentally flawed (as opposed to simply having human flaws). I don't believe it was previously suggested, and certainly not in the OT and PT, that the Jedi charged around the galaxy arresting those who had a different conception of the Force (the problem with the Sith isn't that they have a different conception of the Force - the problem with the Sith is that they are anti-democratic murderers). and coercively taking children where they saw fit.I realize there has been a current in the SW "creatives" and yes, in the SW fan base, who do want to see the Jedi this way.

As I said previously, I am taking a "wait and see" attitude. If the fire killed the coven, this episode did a bad job of showing it, and I am assuming something else happened. Exactly what that is, I don't know. I can imagine scenarios where the Jedi don't kill the coven, but where they feel there was something they could have done to prevent what happened that, at least in theory, and that leaves them with a lot of guilt. I will wait and see how it plays out and decide then.

But if this is indeed (another) "Oh, those bad bad Jedi" take, its not for me.

 

One thing I'm surprised that AFAIK I haven't seen discussed here at all: Indara's tattoos near her eye are different in the flashback than in the present-day scene in Episode 1. In the past she had only one black dot by her left eye, but in the present there are two.

I wonder if they have some sort of personal significance to her. A record of People I Have Killed, perhaps?