Mini Series The Acolyte 1.03 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

What I really wonder is...

....what is in those spice creams? Given what spice usually means in star wars.

 

Gotta get the kids hooked on the drugs early

 

Yeah this doesn't line up with the Jedis' guilt, the accusations about Jedi pulling their lightsabers on the innocent etc.

Hopefully this is the result of a "mind trick", a way to show just how eerily effective it is, by "performing" it on the audience.

 

That was a good episode, Kept me entertained the whole time. I love hearing about more Force cults. And they were exiled for their beliefs by The Jedi Order. Lesbian witches here we come. Virgin births, yess. We get this slight hints to Darth Plagueis and the Chosen One Prophecy. How special are the two twins, and one has the power of a witch the other does not. Are they a dyad in the Force?

Yess the Jedi did something we are not seeing, what did they do? Sol was already in the temple, the witches were not burned so did the Jedi kill them all ? Was Mae on that bridge or just an illusion?

 

My favorite is from the people who are so worried that the show will be anti Jedi. Last episode they were saying “the Jedi definitely murdered all those people” this episode they are saying the “Jedi definitely murdered all those people” like let the show play out. It’s a mystery after all

 

There hasn't been much competition this year so far for the show though. And Disney plus has something like 150 million subscribers. The media is reporting that the viewership for the first two episodes was 4.8 million on the first day (I think) so that's like roughly 3-4 percent of the actual total subscriber count. (I believe )

I'm about 15 minutes into episode 3, and I'm debating whether I want to turn it off or not. I don't feel like they messed with the Chosen One prophecy because Anakin was conceived naturally by the Force as a response to Plageus' meddling. I want to believe that the witches see the Force as this "thread", and that's not facts set in stone and it's just "a certain point of view" type of situation, but as I said I haven't made it through the episode yet.

 

This did not break Star Wars
This made Star Wars stronger
I have spoken

and also
Beautifully written and executed and full of nuance on both sides
Not sure about what happened and also think there is more to it that we see
I think maybe that

Spoiler

it could be that some sith was lurking and influencing Mae and then possessed Torbin or Indara who killed the coven maybe the same sith that helped Aniseya create the twins
Or
Mother Klorin did not want Osha to leave and possessed Torbin to kill everyone?
Could also be that Mae only wanted to burn the diary and got spooked by someone and dropped the lamp? Or it was a mind trick and we will see later?

Or

I think whatever happened it is way more nuanced than the haters think and we will find out
Mistakes were surely made from both parts
The coven is not inherently good and we can see that
Mae is showing signs of a deep dark side slip whether this is natural or instilled by someone we will see
The Jedi are not perfect and some of their decisions are surely flawed
The force has many interpretation and some fear the others as in real life with religions

Nuance

I like that!

what I can’t grasp the the “ this is badly written/acted/filmed”…I may be prematurely declining with my evaluation abilities but it have been immersed in the seventh art in all forms for much of my life and I thought I had a pretty decent understanding of what is written/filmed/acted good and… this is good… this is very good! It is not of course perfect (it is Star Wars… we are speaking about science fiction here…) but it is well constructed the cinematography is really good and the acting also ( the two girls are quite good I find! And also @Bor Mullet they are definitely really different from each other and you can easily tell them apart! I think that was useful otherwise the episode could have been pretty confusing at times…)
It has me hooked
I like it
And I fear what comes in terms of revelations of what really happened but this is good! They are playing me… that’s the point?

and to those who say that a coven of women who live without man and are really powerful and quite aggressive and want nothing to do with men if not to reproduce and that only if cannot avoid it… is somehow disrupting to Star Wars I say Dathomir and to these who say it is disrupting and “too wookie” to the real world I say…
…
AMAZONS … duh!
Get your greek mythology straight people…
… this myth has been around loud and strong for quite some time and cannot be “disrupting” to anything…
… it’s classical and one could argue it is nothing new Ehehe

I loved the episode and I am sold… I like the crescendo!

I have spoken

and now back to work I shall go, mh!
My spice creams earn I must!
(Btw that is definitely drug candies Ehehe)

 

Not quite. The Jedi make it clear that they will only train the children if the children agree, AND with the permission of their mother(s). The children are therefore not making the decision on their own.

By the way, did anyone have difficulty distinguishing between Osha and Mae this time? Didn't think so! @Count Yubnub

I don't see anything at all controversial about the episode - clearly the fanboi ragers are just mad that there are too many wimmenz and that two of them are a couple (especially given that the Jedi aren't shown in much of a bad light, and there is definitely a darkness implied with the coven).

Aesthetically, the wide shots were indeed nice-looking. And I just love getting added worldbuilding depth with more force-user groups (something that started with the Guardians of the Whills in Rogue One, but has not been continued in live action).

But otherwise? Weak dialogue, not great child acting, a listless plot, and some Farscape-level bad interior sets, held this episode back for me. I don't know. It felt at times Book of Boba Fett-level. There's something off and just...bland about the directing. Like the camera's just placed in the corner without much thought for composition. But I did like digging into this culture. Anyway, 6.5/10.

As for Mae being responsible for the destruction of the coven? I don't think it's that simple. In my view, she didn't start that fire in the core of the settlement or whatever. That was a projection, I think. Because otherwise, this doesn't track with the level of Jedi guilt. And when the truth is revealed? I think THAT will be controversial.

 

Watch to the end you must! Mh?
Patience you must have!
Nuance you will find!

 

So, I’m at work and can’t watch the episode till morning. I just need to know, is our furry friend still alive?

 

I honestly don't see how that's any different than the Jedi, whose concept of the force and force-usage is not individualist in the least.

My feeling is that Headland is portraying two different force groups who simply think that their concepts of the force are different, but fundamentally, are not. And therein lies the conflict. And that's what drives different religious factions to act with violence and hatred against others, when their philosophies otherwise do not condone it. As with religious factionalism throughout history.

 

I may be flawed in my judgment because I saw “Sous La Seine” yesterday evening and… that was sooooo bad I laughed hysterically for the whole movie…so this episode looked like Kurosawa compared to it… did you really find the girls bad? They are young,I found them pretty decent?
I also think we will find out more about what happened and it could be controversial but I think these will remain actions and decisions of four Jedis and not “the whole Jedi order is inherently bad and evil”
Actions of some members of an organization do not make the whole organization bad and people tend to forget that… if then everything is hidden t avoid political problems then it could be controversial if the order knew what happened and hid that…
I like where this is going anyway! we shall see!

 

What exactly makes you think that was supposed to "look good?' They are using the darkside, and it's supposed to be bad. Make up your mind. Are you mad that the witches are being portrayed sympathetically vis-a-vis the Jedi, or mad that they are being portrayed unsympathetically?

And if you think the Jedi should have chopped the head off the witch who did that to Torbin, you clearly...don't really understand what the Jedi are. You're essentially saying they should have gone dark side, and been portrayed less sympathetically.

In short, your critiques seem to be a jumble of inconsistency.

 

Alive and roaring!

I agree and I really like that!
I feel Bendu vibes here…
… there is a force
And there are different groups of people who interpret it and harness it in a different way… sometimes similar sometimes inherently in opposition…
… often these people fight because they cannot accept that their beliefs are only that..beliefs… and not the truth…
… the only truth is there is a cosmic force…
It’s exactly like I interpret spirituality and religion…

 

Again, they are not taking children. Children are given the choice of joining, and then only if their parent(s) give their permission. Headland made it a point to include a line in their to clarify that.

Unless we learn that the Jedi were indeed responsible for destroying the coven and taking Osha. But we just don't know what exactly happened yet.

 

Yes, I had trouble telling Mae and Osha apart at times.

Like the opening scene, I wasn't sure if "Osha" or "Mae" was onscreen. Was the sad child going to try and harm the butterfly or did she like it?

Was she trying to harm it with the Force and just wasn't strong enough? Like what's with the gripping hand thing?

I honestly didn't know until Mae was identified by name.

 

Well, yeah, you didn't yet know who was who at that point. But they clearly look like different people, and so once a name is given, they are very easy to distinguish. I doubt anyone had trouble following who was who after Mae was identified by name.

Once again, the show made it clear that there's no Jedi training of children without permission from their parents.

 

As @Bor Mullet previously mentioned, the degree of face recognition varies a lot from people to people and here we see that… the two girls have very distinctive traits for me and are well cast in their respective roles, I find it pretty easy to distinguish them even when they are alone but I can see how it could be difficult for others!
Someone suggested this may be a perk of my neurodivergence (I have adhd)
And it tracks because most of the people with adhd I know are extremely good in this stuff…
… then on the other side I should be working and I am getting distracted by Star Wars and posting in the forum and that may get me in trouble and stresses me out so probably it balances the face recognition stuff ehehe

 

Star Wars fans deserve better. And we know this franchise can do better (Andor, etc.....). I was really hoping this series to be Andor like quality but with Jedi.

I would argue The Acolyte level of quality is even more important to get right then Andor.

For many fans, The Acolyte is their first entrance into the High Republic era, if this series continues to have episodes that are "meh" or "okay" or even "crap", then it creates a poor introduction for the era for said fans.

Also its Disney's first attempt in a series far away from the Skywalker Saga. So if this show ends up as not a fantastic series, it can sour potential future endeavors into the distant past of star wars. Once the series concludes, and Disney looks at how many viewers each episode had and the reception of the episodes, they might think its not worth the effort to give The Acolyte a season 2 or make another High Republic series.

 

I enjoyed it

Its good to see the POV from a 'family or community' who know the force but not as the jedi know it

and also nice to see how it effects families and relationships when a child leaves to join the jedi or wants to.

Not too bothered about how the twins were created - think its refreshing that other beings can control the force as much as the jedi.

One key thing I noticed was they didnt actually show Mae starting the fire....

 

I also dont see how people are complaining about the witches

We've literally had nightsisters for years and no one was bothered how they were conceived

 

Just watched this episode and I am torn.

The idea to show in a flash back episode what happened back then, for me is a great choice at this point. The story was a bit slow but intriguing. I am really not sure why this episode should be controversial. While not commenting on the "woke" critics, when it comes to virgin birth and Jedi related stuff I say when you want to try to tell an interesting Star Wars Story from the past you have to make up some things and bring in some force related ideas, don't you? For me the story was ok.
Honestly I was more pissed off by the fact that they killed Barris and Yaddle in some sort of you tube short clip than having some new force related stuff in this show.
What I really need to mention at this point is, that although this show's music is not outstanding it is extremely Star Warsy. Also the look and feel of this show is quite good so far.
And now what really bothered me about this episode. Some of the dialogues are really terrible. Why do the SW shows have the characters explaining everything for the most dumb guy in the audience. Let the audience follow the characters and find out things rather than having the characters explaining themselves all the time.
How to tell stories and to introduce characters in a perfect way was shown perfectly by GoT S1-4 or Stranger Things. The SW shows more and more come down on a quality of some SciFi low budget series that you watch on a Tuesday at 2pm when being on sick leave. Talking about quality: Beside the clunky written ritual sequence the whole sequence when Mae sets the whole thing on fire was beyond terrible. Dear god, is it really so difficult to create a scene of a little girl in panic trying to escape a room that is on fire that transfers some drama to the audience? Also the time span of her walking around does not match duration of events that obviously took place given the fact that all seem to be dead and the padavan guy looking like he had an audience with Mike Tyson for 20 minutes.

It's really a shame because I find this show so far quite interesting but for that kind of budget we should expect someone at LF to have a look at each episode to make a quality check. In many cases it would increase the quality by 100% if just some sentence is added, skipped or if some cringe stuff is changed to something that keeps the whole story flowing. Same flaws as in all the previous LF shows, although being far less than in Obi Wan.

Without the fire related stuff I would give the episode 8/10 but honestly for that kind of budget I expect GoT level entertainment and not AOTC -1 dialogues.
5,5/10 from me, sigh.

 

Not to mention that manipulating the force to create life is not an idea that Headland is introducing. It was introduced by George two decades ago.

 

True, but a difference is that the Witches intentionally created new life through the darkside without a father, while it was different for Shmi Skywalker with Anakin. It was the Force itself that caused it to happen.

Some might say, "Well Plagueis could intentionally create new life through the force", but if im remembering right, George said Palpatine was lying about that to influence Anakin to fall to the darkside. Then again with Disney in control, they might be changing that and Plagueis could do it, perhaps having a connection to the witches of the Acolyte.

Still I prefer Anakin being the only true example of a product of the Force, that no darksider was able to create life with their abilities. Unfortunately that is not the case in current Disney canon.