Mini Series The Acolyte 1.05 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

That's not inconsistency, that's just plot details we don't have yet. We know that Mae didn't want to fight Kelnacca and instead wanted to give herself over to the Jedi. However, that was before her master showed up (or who she deems is her master) and killed all the Jedi (sans Sol). Mae's alternatives are diminishing... The appearance of Osha has now given Mae the opportunity to 'disappear' albeit in plain sight... to what ends we don't know, as that part hasn't played out, but it's not inconsistent with anything we've seen to date. Both sisters are conflicted, emotionally. Both are headstrong (Osha more so), which has been consistent throughout the series to date.

Not really. We don't know how it will play out. It's as only as 'smart' as Maul attacking Qui-Gon on Tatooine or Palpatine revealing his true identify to Mace and the other Masters. It may be part of a bigger plan we are not yet privy to? It may be why Qimir doesn't succeed his Master i.e. because he's way too rash?

The Sith aren't really allowed to run free during this period. Are you not aware of that? So Qimir is entirely correct.

Palpatine took 3 Masters out (whom sat on the actual Jedi Council) in literally seconds. What Qimir did was entirely within keeping. How many masters did he take out in that fight?

As per previous email, I think that was more a consequence of editing choices rather than the choreography itself.

 

Some of the tweets that i saw, I can’t even repeat on here

 

Sooooo….
oh my oh my… long post sorry but do not want to multiple posts and have to say stuuuf!

Well done Leslie!
I see something here and if it is confirmed in the next episodes I will be very happy…
Pacing was nuts, was on the edge, legit almost screamed on the train when Jecki died and my poor Yord not even an honorable death by lightsaber oh my I did not expect that….

I also think from how Sol reacted and the others to to the red lightsaber that they may have no idea what a Sith is! As in the Jedi thinking sith we’re extinct since hundreds of years made them not teach about the sith anymore (maybe if not in some obscure legend or fairytale purported informally)
Peace and the absence of threats make you careless and too confident… he who has no enemies for a lot of time may erroneously start to think he is the most powerful of all and doesn’t need to fear anything!

I also think he is the apprentice, he says he wants an acolyte, not an apprentice, a master would need an apprentice right?

I think he is the apprentice and he is Plags, that possible? And that’s why he is not announcing is darth name, he still is not. Still think we will discover the real master is

Spoiler

one of the mothers

and then the master will die and Qimir will
Become a master and name himself Darth Plagueis… would that break some lore?

The force works in mysterious ways! Always thought it made sense there is some inconsistency in how you can use it from day to day… you can’t jump at the same height every day after all right? Depends on a lot of factors… and plus I always thought that the mind probing/tricking thing does not work well on other force users… that they are able to more or less shield themselves to a certain amount…

Maybe his master training him left the markings? Makes sense right?
I had no idea about cortosis I have to educate myself about it care to explain a bit? I first thought it was beskar because it is the only material I know can shield from lightsabers ( I am a Mandalorian Jedi after all…)… what was happening with the sabers stopping to work for a while? Was that Qimir saber doing that or is also cortosis?

So … oh my… I was expecting he was Smilo Helmet but was not expecting this level of shift in delivery, acting, physical presence, voice…I dig this character very much and I found him terrific!
And
I have to come clean on this…
I usually do not dig siths or dark siders in general (set aside Anakin but well that’s complicated…)
But…
Oh my! Those arms and that grin and that voice messed me up for a bit… what a glow up…well I may join the Smilo Helmet hoarde… Sorry not sorry Yord (you are with the force now)

Same thing I think they are trained in a very structured and defined way with a lot of rules of engagement and they are not prepared to fight with an opponent using the force but fighting without any respect for their rules or method and ready to kill or die with no second thought… this happens also in real life in the army/law enforcement when hyper trained individuals in regions with not a lot of crime (where I live it can happen for a cop to work for 20 years on the field in a city and never take their gun out of their holster) are taken down in the first encounter they have with an individual ready to kill and die…They just cannot forecast their reaction because they calculate on erroneous assumptions (eg the person wants to stay alive and not kill someone so they will never do that or that…)

In general: that was lit and we are getting better and better with a lot of things!
I give it a 9/10 because the way it is going I suspect this is a crescendo and I need to spare my 10/10…we will see!
I still see some inconsistencies but I think we really need to wait until the end to understand what was that… there may be a lot of deep misdirection and things that way end up making sense when we se all of it…
About people complaining that Jecki handled Qimir all alone for a while: I think that this episode just proved what we were suspecting, that Jecki was an extremely powerful and brave padawan that was destined to great things and was extremely versed in the force… these kind of people often die young because they never give up and always step up when things get desperate… heroes are often more dead than alive!
Rest in the force Jecki…

So I am more and more confident after this episode… and I will
Def rewatch tonight!
I also
Think Sol might know
Bazil def knows my boy
And what the heck did Sol do 16 ago?
And… that was quite a certain amount of darkness Sol… you got a lot of stuff in you!

Looking forward to the rest of it and really really satisfied!!!!

 

Except they shouldn't be. Why is Sol only jedi who can fight without weapons. Jedi should be more skilled without their lightsabers here. They are bumbling idiots...

 

I think it was about skill level, the sith darth whoever was clearly skilled above them. But I dunno, I just wonder if there was other things they could do with the force to help their fellow Jedi.

 

Except that it was his entire plan to start killing the jedi that has caused all problems for him. He is too late to be a victim. He started killing so his "jedi don't allow us to exist" is pretty ridiculous. Him being the sith makes very little sense in this era anyway. Who trained him? Why? So many questions and unlikely they are answered in this show...

I don't know about their master status but surely they were bad fighters. Worse than padawan Jecki. This is internal inconsistency in this episode. In ROTS Palpatine taking 3 jedi masters at once was always bit dumb but it was to save runtime of the movie and he is the big bad. Qimir has twice the same amount of jedi. Not even Grievous in old CW was that OP.

This makes it pretty ridiculous how Yoda insists dark side is not stronger in ESB. It clearly is.

Yes I think writing and editing are bad not choreography. With few exceptions. Like redshirt jedi fighting sith is pretty poor. Jedi are at times not even trying to hit him. But how to do choreography when writing demands that sith wins 6 jedi easily in duel...

 

The Sith clearly outclassed most of the Jedi. Even Sol, who is very powerful, was easily handled until he lost his temper when Jecki died.

We all know the darkside makes fighters more powerful. The Sith should cut through most Jedi like butter.

And the episode even gives us some good concrete reasons for the Jedi's poor fighting -- the Sith is in their minds, clouding their thinking.

It's important to watch the episode carefully before making claims about what is poor or great.

Especially this one -- everything moves super fast.

 

I like the idea that the Jedi make all the rules, and are run by them, even themselves. Whereas the Sith, are free to do whatever they please, but have just one rule, and it's not something they follow but it's just part of their selfish, power-dominating nature. All Darth Nameless wants is to not be bound by rules. By the way of the Jedi. He wants to teach his own Acolyte and be ... free. To be himself, As powerful as he is able. To be evil, essentially.

 

In Lucas movies this happens once. When Palpatine surprises Mace Windu and 3 other jedi masters yet he is unable to defeat Windu (we can argue he plays time until Anakin arrives, but I think he was actually unable to take him down) . Darth Maul cannot cut through Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in seconds. Dooku uses his droid army against jedi and it takes some time for him to defeat Obi-Wan and Anakin. This sith is much more powerful than any apprentice in saga.

 

But HOW would Qimir know the plan was revealed 100 years too early?
Would it be expected thst every Sith thinks they are the one to retake the GFFA?
Would he think he is the one to complete the plan?
How would he know when the plan was due to be complete?

 

I was not that blunt but guilty as charged in my mind… and that my friends is nothing else but the living proof that often it is not really about what kind of mortal coil you were gifted by luck but a lot more about what you can make with it …
I did not know Manny Jacinto previously (sorryyyy) and only saw him as Qimir so I went from yeah… good actor but not really my type to…
… holy maker May the force be with me!

 

Could be that Qimir got a Master of his own who taught him about the importance of staying hidden for now. Today Makingstarwars.net and Bespinbulletin talked about an actor who is confirmed to be in the Acolyte but we haven't seen him yet. Might just be Quimir's Master.

 

This makes no sense in-universe unless he has master with a plan already... Plagueis?

 

They were on Khofar to eliminate one secluded Jedi for the training of his acolyte to overthrow his master. He knows the plan won't move into the open here.

 

But you didn't just say your opinion, did you? You also ridiculed other people's opinions. And so you got what you gave.

 

I also like this difference between the Jedi and Sith, and yet, how are to understand Palpatine's creation of a fascist government obsessed with order?

At first it seems like a contradiction, but I think if we really understand what fascists like Qimir and Palpatine want is not freedom for all, but just freedom for themselves to dominate others, then we can see how their form of freedom is always narcissistic and selfish.

 

The fact is, I think, that the sith are not concerned merely with freedom as a general idea (and pure, thanks Nemik)…
… their main concern is THEIR OWN freedom… and what gives you more freedom than taking away everyone else’s freedom do you can rule them all and so forever what the heck you want how you want when you want and how ruthlessly you want?
EDIT: sorry I am
On a train with bad connection and somehow could not see the second part of your post! I completely agree!

 

I just realized something after I woke up this morning. If Sol knows that who he has with him is Mae, then he purposely left Osha on the planet with Sith-with-no-name. He was all about protecting her and "civilian back to the ship" and then he just left her there at Sith guy's mercy. Makes me wonder if he somehow really can't tell them apart based on a haircut and clothes change.

 

I believe Mae's surrendering to the Jedi was genuine, no tricks at play. Plus she may have a connection with Kelnacca due to those symbols on the wall; however, Kelnacca's demise threw all that out the window. Who would be her advocate for surrender? Kelnacca would have protected her from the Jedi, he is a Wookie, thats what Wookies do.
so Mae's only option was to escape because she was trapped... Darth Smiley wanted to kill her and the Jedi were at Kelnacca's door, and he is dead... would the Jedi believer her?

 

Welll...that's the irony isn't? The Sith are selfish, and only want freedom for themselves. They want power and control over everyone. And everyone else gets the boot or dies. The Jedi see the Force as an alley, and with that comes rules for everyone. The Sith view the Force as a tool. There are no rules.

 

Jedi, as a whole, never should have been omnipotent super beings Dave Filoni presented them to be in The Clone Wars. Acolyte is more of a return to the norm in that way.

Padawan Ahsoka single handedly taking out like 10 Mandalorians in 20 seconds.....those days are hopefully over.

Darth Manny takes out a team of Jedi Knights & Padawans commanded by one master. Yord talks about how he was such a difficult opponent because he gets in their heads, muddles them.

Sol took the brunt of the epic Force push right at the start of the battle, took him time to recover. Jecki fought a weakened Manny later - and before you mention a Padawan having such a good showing - Padawan Kenobi killed a Sith Lord in Phantom Menace.

Its a bit over the top, but its all explainable.

 

I had no problem with Mae's motivations in this episode, actually. Just in the last one. In this one, she is accosted by Jekki who is absolutely certain she killed Kelnacca, and she is already guilty of murdering two other Jedi as well. So met with this violence by the Jedi, and understanding that she will have no recourse and will likely spend the rest of her life in Jedi jail, she...fights back. That made sense. Her decision to drop everything and turn herself into Kelnacca, on the other hand? I still think that needs some more explaining.

Of course. Simply put, they want absolute freedom, which is synonymous with absolute power. It's strongman freedom. Extreme right-wing libertarian freedom. It's freedom without check. Without responsibility. Without Mill's concept of liberty which begins with the end of your fist, and the beginning of someone else's nose. Sith freedom begins with the end of their fist, and goes through everyone's face and beyond into infinity. Sith freedom is just power without responsibility. They're the anti-Spidermans. That's why I like what Headland's doing here. She's showing us how the Sith emotionally justify their desire for extreme power. They want to be free to do anything they want to anyone they want and at any time they want. In other words, they want the power to dominate all life. And while they're at it? Death too.

And...it's is a very timely and very relevant critique to present at this moment in our history. The episode does a really good job of presenting that critique, and so it frankly saved the show for me.

 

The Jedi work in balance with the Force, and use it as their ally. They see the entire galaxy as something to protect and guard this delegate balance.
The Sith view the Force as nothing more than a useful tool, something to subjugate, something to dominate, along with the galaxy.