Mini Series The Acolyte 1.08 (SEASON FINALE!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I mean pretty much every character gets a Funko Pop! figure so that really doesn’t prove anything. If you were to go into a store I doubt you’d find much of anything that features Bazil. He doesn’t have a Black Series figure yet. I don’t see him on backpacks or anything like that.

 

A rock solid, and often enticing and emotional ending to the season.

Alas, much of what came to pass happened pretty much as had been predicted, but I still thought the execution generally hit the mark. I think the real key to this episode was always going to be Osha, and Amandla Stenberg knocked it out of the park. I think maybe the one thing I was missing was hopefully getting a more visual insight into her vision wearing Qimir's mask, rather than just a verbal explanation. But her confrontation with Mae, wrenching execution of Sol, and goodbye to Mae all really worked for me. The Sol death specifically had the great double surprise of Osha's Force choke and bleeding Sol's lightsaber crystal, but what really put it over the top for me was how the shot of Sol on his knees matched the framing of him finding Osha on Carlac in the first episode. What a way to bring it full circle. It's one of the best scenes of the whole season and it earned it.

I kind of had the sense that Sol knew he was a dead man walking this entire time, but I really liked his fight with Qimir, and I thought Lee Jung-jae really nailed the bitter end to his character arc. One funky thing that kind of bothered me a bit was how Qimir was just content to hang in the background while Sol spoke with Mae and Osha, but I guess he understood that situation would evolve naturally without his interference. I'm sure a future Sith would concur that everything is going as planned. That being said, it is a bit surprising that Qimir didn't have much influence here in general.

Honestly, I'd say the one big element that's been lacking the most for me this season has been Mae, and I still remain a bit puzzled by her overall. I guess you could say that letting go of needing to be with her sister was the fulfillment of her character arc, but I'd have to rewatch the whole season again to watch how that development tracks. Again, I thought their goodbye was really powerful from Osha's point of view, but I also think the mind wipe was a bit too quick and easy of a solve (even though it was hinted at in episode 2), and I was surprised Qimir let them have a moment for that long, when it seemed like their escape was the more pressing issue.

Also, this is probably the first time I've actually really engaged with Vernestra in this season, so better late than never I guess. I thought her moments sensing Qimir were genuinely haunting, and I also thought her verbal dispute with Senator Rayencourt established some good political context moving forward. I'm actually inclined to think this guy might be our Trade Federation / Nute Gunray equivalent in this series, someone in league with the Sith who's already deeply entrenched in the political arena.

And lastly, while I liked the Yoda cameo, I actually don't know if I needed it! It felt about as pandering as the Death Star reveal at the end of the first season of Andor, even if both examples have some narrative relevance.

Now as to that true stranger lurking in the shadows... I need season 2 yesterday.

8/10

 

Wait there was an end credit clip? Dang guess I ll never see it as I’m not giving them another click to see it.

 

For season two…

Spoiler

John Noble needs to be the voice of Darth Plagueis. I said back during the early days of the ST and I’m sticking to it.

 

And yet, it wasn’t worth saying.

 

Giving us the Sith perspective (or how one becomes a Sith because of Jedi mistakes) is a good goal or endpoint for the show, with that image of Osha standing beside the Stranger, but everything that transpired just explained why she would kill Sol, not join Qimir moving forward and commit to this path. Unless I'm missing something. Does she swear vengeance against all Jedi? Does she want to make sure no one is manipulated like she was? Does she just want to be free? Is this how she thinks she can "help" the galaxy (what she thought she wanted by becoming the Jedi)?

And I really think the stuff with the senator should have come in sooner with a reveal that it's linked to what Qimir/Plagieus are up to in terms of shattering the "Jedi dream" or whatever with this twins/Sol incident, shaking the people's (or in this the government's) blind faith in the Jedi, to balance this intimate story with something that's more core to Sith ideology/machinations in general.

 

Lol. You’re saying Anakin goes bad only AFTER he becomes a Sith? You realize where this logic takes you, right? That becoming a Sith isn’t bad.

Which is not how it works. Anakin was a Jedi when he became a Sith, and therefore he was a Jedi who went bad. Just like the Jedi in the Acolyte.

There is a difference, though, but not in favor of your argument. The difference is that Anakin is a Jedi who goes horrendously, catastrophically, galactically bad. Way, way worse than anything these few Jedi did in the Acolyte.

 

The positive:
- Visually great
- Plagueis
- Better than Obi Wan

Negative
- Sith Lords don't get killed when they are defeated (same nonsense as in Obi Wan)
- fabricated character motivations
- terrible dialogues
- Jedi master who defeats a Sith lord gets force choked by a padavan who could barely move an item with her force power
- Sith Lords now obviously accept that their padavan has a padavan...

underwhelming 5/10

Last but not least: Why on earth did the rat pull out the cables in the space chase?

 

Finished the season/episode. I kind of liked it? A lot happened the way I expected it to, but I also have a lot of issues with the way certain characters ended up.

Mae being the biggest issue for me. I don’t understand her character or motivations at all. She’s kind of just psychopathic, until she’s not. There’s like no consequences to her trying to murder Osha as a kid (that just doesn’t factor in really at all during this episode), no follow up on her being kind of insane, and then she’s totally just okay with giving up her memories of Osha anyways despite trying so hard to re-unite this whole season. Speaking of, I’m still confused… why exactly couldn’t Mae have just like… tagged along for a day to hide somewhere? Why did they need to erase her memory? Why did Osha decide to become a Sith but Mae just gave up on doing literally anything? Her and Osha’s relationship is just strange to me.

I liked Osha initially, but by the end of the season I kind of don’t have any interest in either of the “twins”. I have no idea what the hell either of them actually want lol. They aren’t defined at all to me and them being constantly inconsistent in motivation and action means I just lost interest. I really think they should have just merged into one character or something because I don’t see how any future interactions between them can play out any differently than what we got this season.

I’m very happy Qimir lived though. He’s easily my favorite character and I’m hopeful we see plenty more of him. I’m looking forward to re-watching the Acolyte in full soon and maybe I’ll pick up on some things I didn’t notice the first time.

EDIT: oh yeah, Bazil existed. He could have just… not, and the show probably would have saved a couple million of effects work. He served no role. They could have just had the Jedi do the tracking, and a space rock mess up the ships power. He was there to just not process anything that happened correctly and pull the power on Sol’s ship, making him very annoying to look at, lol.

 

The reasoning for Osha becoming Qimir's acolyte is really weak.

Ideally the twins would have reunited and gone their own way, freeing each other from their Jedi and Sith manipulators, working out their issues (...like Mae trying to kill her as a kid) but together at least. With justice/retribution done, now they're free, and then we never have to see them again.

Then in season 2 (or better yet, a separate spiritual follow up series called The Sith) we could get into the Sith (Qimir, Plagues, Teneborous) as our main characters, all trying to backstab each other. Sith who clearly don't give two hoots about the innocent. Not these pseudo reluctant Sith like Mae/Osha.

 

Great episode! Really loved it, especially the two (albeit somewhat predictable) cameos.

Question: Why did Basil the rat sabotage the ship in the middle of the chase? Did I miss something?

 

Yes, because that’s the story being told. A Few Bad Jedi. That’s the narrative.

And understand that Vernestra is not just protecting “the order.” She’s very much protecting herself.

I watched to the end and there was no end credit clip.

 

The Endgame with her very much so feels like a bunch more dead Jedi, dead Qimir, dead Osha/Mae, and all of it lying at the feet of a dead Vernestra, whose failings end up becoming the seeds that cause the republic to doubt the Jedi, and the Jedi to doubt themselves, allowing a young Palpatine to rise up.

 

No need to be confused. It was the dumbest plot point of the episode. I rarely say this, but it makes absolutely no sense, outside “the writers found a nonsensical way to explain why the Jedi don’t know about the Sith in TPM” and “we want a way to justify having Mae become a Jedi so she can fight Osha later.” They stuck the landing, but this bit of writing almost caused a crash.

 

I like the take, it makes sense

I love Grogu but… I never had that kind of dreams you may have about Qimir about Grogu

I see a lot of people arguing that this ruins canon and irremediably taints the Jedi…(caution highly extended impromptu adhd rant incoming)
… lets say I work in real life for an organization that holds quite a bit of power on society, an organization that holds extremely high ethical and moral standards and a strict code of conduct that should make every person working in it a moral compass for everyone else and also always striving to to the best thing with the right results and defend the law and every citizen.
Well there sometimes are people in my organization who do things thinking they are doing the right thing but these things result in bad things that hurt innocent people. There are also people in my organization that become too political and start covering up things that should be exposed saying it is for the greater good because otherwise all the organization will be tainted in the public eye and we will loose the power we have which is used for doing good and protecting people, so that take questionable decisions like Vernestra.
There are also sometimes people in my organization that enter through the unavoidable cracks of our recruiting system and are not balanced enough to sustain the pressure this work implies and they “turn to the dark side” and do questionable things, bad things, or persons that go dark because of multiple reasons and end up also doing bad things… sometimes they are caught sometimes not sometimes the political ones cover that up…
Does that taint my organization in the public eye?
Yes
Does that make my organization fully and deeply corrupted and all of us who work for it bad and dark siders?
No
Does that small minority of few people who do bad things represent the 99.9999% of us who strive constantly to maintain the highest ethical and moral standards?
No
You know what IMO makes such an organization start to go corrupt?
When its members refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that one of them “went dark” or even did something wrong even if they thought they were doing “the right thing” or “ for the greater good” …
I have seen it happen multiple times, in real life, “he is one of us he could never do that, that’s a lie, that’s a set up”, “ we are doing it for the greater good it can’t be wrong”, “ it can’t be us who are doing bad things, it must be them, we are right because we are on the right side”…” this depiction of our organization is a lie, it depicts a few individuals who are flawed but that is impossible and would mean our whole organization is flawed because we cannot be flawed so everyone in it must be perfect, it’s a lie!”
It happens, in real life, a lot… and it is a constant struggle to expose that, and avoid the natural protection mechanism of such an organization to cover up and hide the truth…
Bad things happening do not make an organization go corrupt
Covering up bad things happening to “save the face” instead of exposing and sanctioning the “few bad apples” or refusing to acknowledge a bigger outside threat because it would expose our lack of judgement and own actions is what starts an organization to go corrupt… what Vernestra is doing is the biggest threat to the Jedi’s integrity…
Does that make all the Jedi flawed?
No
Is it easy to call out such things?
No
I have been there, even if not on a moral/ethical plan but more concerning academical/scientifical integrity. I have seen the person I considered my “real life Jedi master” go up the ranks (just imagine them becoming Jedi knight) and start to go political and take questionable decisions that went against all scientifical principles they taught me to go by…
…it took me a good while to accept what was happening and for a while I kept defending their behavior and decisions “ he is my Jedi master he taught me all, he can’t do no wrong, there must be a strategy, a hidden motivation that makes this right!”
Well guess what, there was none…
It is hard to accept that someone you admire is slipping away from the principles they taught you… it is dangerous to even refuse to acknowledge the possibility that they are slipping, this is a path that leads you … you know where!
So no, the Acolyte does not “taint the Jedi irremediably” and “break George Lucas’ canon”… if the Acolyte does something is depicting in a highly realistic and sociologically accurate manner (IMO from my sociologist POV) what are the mechanisms and dynamics that may have been subjacent to the Jedi’s demise later on!
This adds realism and meaning to the whole universe and helps us understand how it possible that no one then saw the dark side rise in their ranks right under their noses…
… but that doesn’t mean it depicts the Jedi as bad people..I don’t know if I made my thought clear but I shall stop anyway!

Why after ending credits scene? I rewatched twice I saw none?

For now: I have to go work in real life so no more time to expand my review but I really liked this finale…
… there are still some things I consider flaws in execution and storytelling especially around background and character motivation but I found the whole thing very good and promising!
It has a wide range of development for a second season hoping Leslie is maybe given more freedom to include stuff that was just narrated in interviews.. we will see
But I liked that and want a second season
I have spoken
Sorry for the lengthy post but I had to get that out of my system or I could not have focused on work today!
May the force be with you all

 

Either, 1) they wanted that overall idea of Mae/Osha switching sides

or 2) They knew it's cheaper to keep twins separated for budget reasons

 

I agree. It's interesting that so many fans want pure black/white morality and to stick their head in the sand, when we should all know by now the danger of dealing in absolutes.

 

If Qimir and Osha could manage to escape, it's unclear why Mae needed to be left behind.

And the Man-in-Black memory wiping felt very unnecessary. It reminded me of the droids' memory wipe in the PT, which was also a convenient way to have them in the movies without having plot holes.
Though for a droid it's fairly easy to imagine that it can be done in principle, while I don't know how I feel about it being a force ability implemented on humans.

 

Pure black/white mentality strips you from the “burden” to have to think with your own head and constantly assess things because you can just go by “us good then bad” , dealing with “greyscale mentality” is sometimes exhausting but is the only path that allows you to stay “ in the light”.
This light/dark metaphor is handy in explaining that. If I stay always in the same spot because when I got there it was in the light… and never reassess my position during the day… it is very very likely that at a certain moment I will find myself in the shadows because I stayed there but the sun turned…same as thinking I entered a “good organization” and therefore it am done in having to assess where I stand between light and dark because the organization does it for me… like “someone” said, “Only a sith deals in absolutes” (which then causes the “do or do not there is no try” sound like sith stuff but that is another discussion and Ezra was right!)

 

I think this is either a rule Palpatine made up to test Vader or an old sith practice that not every Sith has done.

Darth Maul wielded red prior to killing his first jedi (which is shown in a comic set prior to TPM). While Ben Solo wasn't a Sith, he still bled his own crystal, he didn't need to steal a jedi's crystal to bleed. I think Dooku also bled his own crystal.

With the whole "Rule of Two" in hiding prior to TPM, im sure the majority of Sith did not go around killing jedi to get red lightsabers. I'm sure the ancient Sith founds ways of bleeding crystals without fighting Jedi. Perhaps Vader was not the only Sith whom went about getting his crystal through killing a Jedi, but since the ancient sith existed for thousands of years, not always at war with the Jedi, sometimes just stuck on Korriban, etc.....I doubt all the ancient sith bled their crystals from dead jedi's crystals. They likely found spots where crystals naturally were and bled them.

 

Ultimately an underwhelming finale that, although it ties up what it needs to, didn't really advance or explore enough (for me anyway) the concepts/conceits it put in place. Again, I thought the show (in it's entirety) had an ambition that elevated it beyond several other examples of Disney era SW (IMO)... and it's probably been the most interesting show to date (?), but The Acolyte perhaps fell short ultimately due to the format and the general approach DLF take with making content.

 

I enjoyed this episode more than most of the others.

Its interesting to see how the Jedi become so intertwined with the Republic Politics in the PT after seeing this episode. I actually enjoyed seeing that although I know others wont.

Obviously the Plagues reveal is meant to leave us wanting more.

Still not sure on the whole Osha dynamic as she seems to have changed her mind about 7 times this season

But overall, I enjoyed the series as a whole.

 

In general I thought this was a good wrap-up of this season's storyline. I knew there was an idea for season 2, but I didn't forsee how open ended this finale would be.

Spoiler

Plageuis, Yoda, Mae possibly becoming a Jedi (though with the same ticking bomb implications as Osha), Osha and Qimir...though I would expect that if there is a season 2, Qimir will die so that Osha can take on her own acolyte down the line, possibly Sheev himself...?

 

I don't understand how you can say this:

right next to this:

in any kind of seriousness.

Also:

Did you watch the same movies I did? He slaughtered an entire village. He broke his vow as a Jedi and kept it a secret. He executed a disarmed prisoner. He did things WAY worse than anyone in this show while he was still a Jedi.

 

Watch how Plagueis is informed by Qimir that the two girls were created by Aniseya because she manipulated the Force (something that Qimir very clearly did not know), and that's how Plagueis gets inspiration towards achieving immortality.

Which will be one of the many atrocities committed by the writer of this show.

Oh well, the fight between Sol and Qimir was amazing. And that's pretty much about the only good thing about the finale. I feel stupid that I actually thought this show can be redeemed.