Mini Series The Acolyte 1.08 (SEASON FINALE!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

While most of the other shows were poorly made, at least I appreciated that they generally came from a place of good intention.

This, on the other hand, was designed to be subversive, designed to make good bad and bad good, it is some kind of weird fetish tumblr fanfic propaganda. I can't get behind the story where the main character inexplicably falls for a murderous maniac just because he was hot, effectively gets groomed by him somehow, then kills her father figure, then holds hands with the aforementioned maniac by the end of it, as the "inspirational" music swells, with the showrunner calling it Osha's "triumph" in the recent interview. Plenty has been said about the garbage writing, with the characters acting on a whim and changing their motivation arbitrarily, terrible story, numerous plot holes, cringe inducing pop songs and "power of many" stuff, terrible dialogue and acting, etc - it's all not that important in the face of how this show actually feels. This indeed feels like fanfiction, fanfiction of the worst, most amateur kind, and a lot of it is Headland's own projection - which she had also admitted in the interviews, that she writes what she knows, her own experiences. Innocent woman being groomed (with strong sexual implications) by a powerful man, said woman embracing it, it being objectively portrayed as "good" and "triumphant". There had been plenty of Sith stories in Star Wars. But they were always absolutely clear on the fact that the Dark Side is actually still bad, miserable, not that attractive, and it is ultimately a road to destruction. This show hasn't conveyed that. Instead, this show gave us the Jedi that killed themselves. Cool. I really don't know who is this show made for. Reylo audience and the weirdos on tumblr/Twitter/AO3, I guess? Alright.

Oh, and also, she cast her spouse as the most important Jedi in the show, and she keeps casting her in every single thing she's done, apparently. And she was the worst part of the show, of course. Nepotism is nice, I guess. Where could she learn that? Anyway. The show was bad. There is no nuance in purposefully writing the characters as stupid and constantly acting out of character. You are not actually making a point. You create a strawman and defeat it, and then pat yourself on the back. This is what this show's been doing in regards to the Jedi. Oh, and also, the heavy handed foreshadowing, "You jedi one day will all die!", "What will happen when ONE OF YOU SNAPS (wink wink)?" was really not insightful or smart. It was cringe and it insisted upon itself, and just shows that Headland doesn't really get it - if these were the conclusions she made. Those pesky Jedi, we told them they will all pay for their good intentions, we told them 100 years ago, lolz! How smart! Everyone at the top involved in making and approving it needs to go.

Good fighting choreo, though. Can 100% give them that. Which puts to shame hilariously bad Ahsoka fights. Shame the toy lightsabers still look terrible. They should just revert to the PT lightsaber rods and light them up in post. They could also hit those rods much harder than these FX Disney World lightsabers that break. I remember Gus Fring actor said he broke a bunch of Darksaber props during filming. Anyway. Hopefully this never gets a second season.

 

I didn’t provide all the context, but she did say that. Copy and pasted from the interview:
whereas I think a different subset of the audience can be like, ‘They’re married!’” Headland said.

“You want to feel Osha’s triumph. You want to feel her joining forces with The Stranger.


I was summarizing an interview in two lines, obviously, but the gist is if you know who Plaguies is, you know their ending is bittersweet, but if you don’t, you can be like ‘they’re married!’

I just didn’t think of their relationship as anything close to romantic. Qimir kept trying to hold her hand and there was that weird bath scene but OSHA seemed to always rebuff him. Not sure I’d consider them a couple. But I admit I might have just missed it.

and I don’t agree that the way she choked the life out of Sol and erases 16 years of her sister’s life could be described as a triumph.

 

Yes I literally just said this. She thinks a segment of the audience will be LIKE 'they're married". She is not saying this. She is saying the audience will.

But again, this is the story of a dark sider going dark. In that sense it's triumphant. That's the moment Osha makes her decision. Its' wrong. But that's it. it's also doomed. She says so as well.

 

I see it the same way Palpatine is triumphant in ROTS. I'm not cheering him on, but I realize that its' his moment in the story.

Osha has chosen the dark side. She took the saber from her old Master, struck him down via a Force choke, and then bled the crystal out of anger and hate. I have issues with the lead up to this, the motivations, etc, but this is definitely her moment as well.

And yeah, i don't think it'll last very long.

 

For me this is my least favorite episode. A 6. I was really excited after the 5th episode, but they s ending just doesn't make sense, to me at least. Vernestra's cover up makes the Jedi look worse than the truth by FAR. Sol didn't seem very sorry for killing Aniseya, and maybe he was justified if she was gonna take control of either daughter and possess them long term but that doesn't excuse raising her with this huge lie. The whole season is as definitely looking forward to a potential second season, now I am less enthused, because it seems like the Jedi are becoming any other corrupt religion. Not a fan of that. I don't mind the concept of a cover up for the greater good but this doesn't protect the Jedi, only Vernestra. Leaving Mae behind didn't make sense to me. On the plus side Rayen if they do a second season I hope a new Jedi gets introduced to be ourcourt was fun and I loved the duel. If there is a second season I hope we get a new Jedi and Vernestra gets exposed eventually.

 

If there's a S2 i hope there's a lot more focus on the Jedi and Senate intrigue.

I'd agree that S1 was flawed, but there's points and stories here that can be expanded on and explored even away from Osha, Mae, DP and the Stranger.

If we could merge the writing of Andor with the premise of Acolyte we'd have a great show

 

It could be cool if Ravencourt investigates things further, himself, in secret. Finds out more about what really happened on Brandok, about the twins, and that leads him to finding new ... alliances.

Although I think I prefer him just being a secular foe of the Jedi. Nothing to do with the Sith or any of that.

 

I rewatched the entire series today. Gotta put this one to bed soon so I can move on to the Kenobi series and Alien franchise.

The show definitely flows better watching as a whole. It wasn't great in some areas with questionable choices, but with the main acting and fight choreography, it was really good.

Here's the thing...has anyone posted yet on why Mae and Osha flip flop personalities all the time? Remember they're the same person, ONE conscience. So is this what is happening??

Has anyone commented on the yellow tree at the end and why Osha doesn't know Mae goes there? Is this an error? This is where Osha goes not Mae!?? How does she not know? It's like she's a completely different person after killing Sol. I thought her darkness emerges after putting on the Smilo Ren helmet but it's really after Force choking Sol and then it cuts to Mae breathing heavy as if she's doing the choke?
Also why did Qimir's eyes go black as he was trying to help Osha get the helmet off?

 

I think the idea is that Osha is motivated on some level of attaining her "dream" of being a "Jedi" with a master who doesn't lie to her like Sol (turning a blind eye to all of Qimir's sins), but it's kind of weak to dilute the motivation with the Mae replacement stuff, "forcing" Osha to go with Qimir, especially given all the legwork the show tried to do to pit her against the Jedi establishment.

But at the end, we don't know what she actually aims to accomplish moving forward. Does she want to rid the galaxy of the Jedi? To "wield her power" freely like Qimir? Power to...do what? I don't know what the last shot of her and Qimir is meant to communicate.

 

Even if they are identical, their experiences are not. Based on the people and situations they encounter, it shapes their identity and motives.

Headland is also surely playing around with their shifting moral-emotional status from light to dark.

 

The chances of season 2 for this show aren’t very good unless they slash the budget by a significant amount. She Hulk got a similar reception and cost 225$ there will be no season 2. This cost 180 and may even have lower viewership than She Hulk. Not saying it won’t happen but it’s going to have to cost a lot less. House of the Dragon season 1 cost less and more hours of content. Taking all talk of quality and liking or disliking the show out of it the budget is the shows biggest obstacle to getting a season 2.

 

The lightsaber fights all feel masturbatory because I'm not invested in any of the characters carrying them out. These characters all have flimsy motivations that flip on the go from episode to episode. Ill be remiss if they green light season 2. Truly a bummer that Plagueis is going to be wasted on this story if it continues. Coulda made a sick show featuring Plagueis. We've all asked for that. Not via whatever this was supposed to be.

 

Osha wasn't supposed to be manipulated by Qimir. She falls on the Dark Side, but it's completely her choice.

According to Headland, Qimir has been sincere about his thoughts and feelings (even if he hasn't revealed everything yet). Osha just connected with his ideology.

That said, I agree the portray of Osha fall on the Dark Side isn't so good.

 

Even although Qimir hasn't revealed everything yet, Osha should know there is danger on the path she has chosen. Qimir has left clear that surviving is a priority for him.

That said, it's unlikely Plagueid would let her go even if she rejects Qimir.

 

Are you sure? Mae murdered Jedi, and Osha was too angry to be a Jedi.

 

I was critical of some of the episodes but now that the season is over I have to admit this might be my favorite of all the Disney+ SW shows. It doesn’t use the volume, which I think looks terrible at times, has awesome additions to the lore and takes risks with the characters and plot. I was legitimately worried for Sol in the finale and was crushed by his death.

 

https://www.gq.com/story/the-acolyte-creator-leslye-headland-breaks-down-the-first-season-finale

Another interview with Headland. There are three interesting things for me on this interview:

As we said, Osha isn't supposed to be manipulated by Qimir. She choose the dark side on her own. The portrayal being good (or not) is debatable.

I'm pretty sure many people won't like these words. I guess she really think Jedi doctrine is problematic.

This is interesting. Although Headland knows tragedy is the most likely fate for Osha and Qimir. She still consider there may another possibility outside the Sith.

 

It’s pretty obvious Koril and Plagueis are in cahoots together. Wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Plagueis is behind the weird dark side power on Brendok.

 

This would have made a great finale but the impact was undermined hugely by the previous episode. If Sol's motivations for killing Aniseya weren't completely ridiculous it would have been such a darkly satisfying conclusion.

The episode is a 7/10 and the season is probably a 5.5 - some really good stuff brought down by a few bad episodes that unfortunately made fundamental errors with key characters and plot points.

It's a big shame because I think this show had a pretty high ceiling if some critical choices had been made differently. I do hope it gets a second series and a chance to do better - although it will miss Lee Jung-jae's exceptional performance.

 

‘Structurally’ the show was a bit over the place. It was hindered somewhat by Headland trying to make it a mystery piece rather than a straight up drama or adventure story… which means that rather than the show being focused on how and where it goes, it’s constantly having to play with past events to make sense of the ‘now’. A more linear flow would have served the show better IMO… that and putting the two main Sith right at the heart of the show rather than them being on the periphery to the Jedi. Still, I did find the whole premise much more interesting and engaging than a lot of DLF content (even if weakened by its own structure/format)

 

"We can wipe her memory."
[Osha reaches out her hand, Qimir puts the lightsaber in it.]
"Here, wipe it with this."