Mini Series The Acolyte 1.08 (SEASON FINALE!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I blame the fad on Game of Thrones. Once Game of Thrones hit big I knew every hack in Hollywood was going to try to recreate its success.

 

This is a show about turning to the dark side... and that has no happy ending.

 

Yeah, well, then, why didn't Tarkin's eyes turn red when he blew up Alderaan!!?? Boom! I win.

 

Jecki and Yord seemed like pretty good ideal Jedi to me. Sol had major issues, but tried to better following Brendok.

I think The Acolyte does a good job of displaying the Jedi as real three dimensional characters, which is something I've found lacking with Jedi previous to this. They just have never seemed believable or relatable. If the Jedi are perfect superheroes, then why should or how can I as a viewer care about them?

 

That murderous terrorist Luke blew up the Darth Star, killed millions of people and got a medal for it. Unbelievable. What are we teaching our kids here?!

 

Would love for this to not be the implication. But she literally says "Shmi and Koril got pregnant. If THAT were part of someone's ability...."

Hope you are right.

 

This is like taking Palpatine at face value when he says he loves democracy. Or that he's really trying to save the Republic, Or when Anakin says that the Jedi are evil.

The show shows the POV the Sith (at times). Qimir wants nothing more than to train someone. Awww shucks. So innocent. How dare the Jedi not let the Sith, or other dark siders train force users into committing evil all across the galaxy? They're so horrible!

What really is taking place though is he's seducing the twins into being his Acolyte/Apprentice. Hey's mentioning all the good stuff the Sith, or whatever he is, can do with the Force. Same has what Palpatine did in the PT. But we know how the Sith operate. We know what goes down. We know what are lies. We know they are ultimately selfish beings.

The series is giving us a more nuanced look at the Sith and the Jedi Order. That's for sure. We might get a pair of Sith Apprentice/Acolyte who truly like one another, which we haven't really seen before. We don't knwo what Qimir really has in mind for Osha though. Mae rightfully feared him. She knew what he was really capable of. Qimir puts on a happy face, but there is Sith Rage and Evil in there. And even Osha, in the end, murders her former Master. Sol made mistakes, and lied, to her face. He accidentally killed her mother, who was turning in to a magic mist and may have tried to kill him for all he knew. But Osha is till a murderer. A violent one. None of what went down was morally righteous.

And the rest of the Jedi - some that we see anyway - are seen as corruptible, even though they have good intentions. Others are clearly good moral people. Some are even great Jedi. Some are silly. Stupid. Dumb. Naive. Blind. But I wouldn't say that the show says all of them are evil. And we've seen their flaws in the past to other degrees. So that's not new here. The series doesn't say that the Jedi are evil. Nor does it say that the Sith are the actual good guys. These criticisms have been levied at the show even since before it actually came out. That was the fear going in. Perhaps many fans just want 100% good guy Jedi, no flaws, no failings, fighting off evil where it goes and anything that isn't that is seen as some sort of attack on Jedi or SW.

Guessing that in either case, said being has to be born still. They can't just sprint out of the ground. The Witches/Sith are using the dark side of the Force - along with the vergence it seems - to get there. The Force, on the other hand, does it by itself.

 

My issue with this show regarding the Jedi and the Sith is that it could’ve been executed better. The Jedi’s incompetence, their dogma, etc could’ve been told in a much better manner. The Sith’s background could’ve been explored better and told much more than just: “freedom to wield my power the way I want.”

The Acolyte should’ve added layers to that. Why? Why do the Sith want power? What’s their philosophy behind taking over the galaxy? Order? Security? They never touch these things beyond the surface level stuff. Lots of things in the Acolyte could’ve been done much, much better. Aside from the obvious plot holes, I think if you’re exploring the Sith, you’d definitely do it in a more in-depth manner.

Andor did this good with the Empire and the Rebellion. Everything else here felt flat.

A story doesn’t need to shoehorn a “message” that the Sith are evil. We know. We don’t need an infantile counter-argument to that( unless the story isn’t about them). The concept of the Acolyte is good; the execution was pretty terrible.

 

That's what I took away from this show, as one of it's many messages

 

“freedom to wield my power the way I want.” suggests chaos. Think The Joker in The Dark Knight. The Sith wants to do whatever they want with the galaxy.

The Jedi are all about order.

 

Sith are about order. Order through chaos. Maybe Qimir wants that; but in canon and legends the Sith in Bane’s line want order and stability as a byproduct of control and tyranny. Darths Tyrannus, Sidious, Vader, Tenebrous, Plagueis all wanted order in the end.

 

Yes. that's the ironic part. For all their talk about freedom, and not having rules, the Sith only want freedom for themselves. Everyone else gets rules, orders, and no choice whatsoever.

 

Agreed. And thats inherent to their philosophy.

In their eyes, they believe they can delegate and control because they’ve been elected by the Force and are the only enlightened ones in the galaxy to shepherd the rest; everyone else is made to follow because they lack the capability to lead themselves.

 

How in the GFFA do we know at this point what Vernestra tells Yoda? Is there another end credit scene I can't seem to find? Assuming will make you believe things like Marrok is important.

 

And in the end only the master has at least the illusion of freedom, weaker Sith are ultimately either master's servants or dead people. In that regard there is indeed no happy ending for Qimir and Osha. Although Plagueis not killing them or making them submit right at the end of season 1 is good regarding more freedom for the plot in possible season 2, but bad regarding the morality - Osha getting all the perks and no negative consequences for choosing the Dark side so far.

 

Osha will get the consequences for choosing the dark-side at some point. Hopefully. Sol had consequences for murder and choosing the Jedi, and we all know where the Jedi Order end up during the events of ROTS.

Headland implied Osha and Qimir’s story won’t end well for them. By choosing the dark side, they inherently chose the hardships and perils that come naturally with that lifestyle. Case in point, rival Sith. Dark-side always invites strife.

Either way, it always leads to one road. Darth Bane instilled this in those descendants from him; the apprentice craves the power, and the master wields it. When the time is right, the apprentice can kill the master and proudly assume the title. The master can accept his death, at least knowing he trained a student strong enough to defeat him and carry on the legacy of the Sith.

Honestly I don’t think Darth Bane accounted for poisoning or killing a master in their sleep. His way was fight to the end instead of using deceitful means. I recall he chided Zannah when he thought that’s how she wanted to assume mastery.

 

Looked fully intentional to me. She is using her hatred to strangle the only person she's trusted since the death of her family. She does it intentionally in my mind.

 

Yeah, but the slippery slope doesn't stop after killing millions. Kissing your sister, dropping out of Jedi school, trying to kill your Dad, endangering the mission and just leaving your mates, while thinking you - and you alone - could take on a Galactic Emperor.

I'm pretty sure his eyes were always red, they just didn’t have the technology to make them believable.

 

I doubt this show an do anymore damages the both The Prequels and Clone Wars animation did to his character in some fans eyes. He has covered up many things.

 

Well Clone Wars never depicted the Jedi in the same light as The Alcolyte

 

The last few seasons did.