ST The case for why Rey in 'Star Wars' is actually Obi-Wan Kenobi's granddaughter

We're not talking about a documentary. We're talking about a fictional, fantasy saga. As such, we should be aware that there can and will be certain ARTISTIC CHOICES that are implemented to illustrate meaning.

The accent, the clothes, the circumstances, can all be explained away in a literal sense. But Star Wars for the most part, is not literal.. It is SYMBOLIC.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

Pretty much the only issue I have with Rey being a Kenobi is it will feel shoehorned in. I like the idea of Luke training a Kenobi descendant. I also like the idea of the Kenobi legacy living on. But it's super random. That's just a fact. I don't think the movies are going to reference Kenobi's relationship with Satine(?) in TCW, but even if they did, those two didn't seem to have a child. If Kenobi made a baby on Tattoine with someone, what happened to mama and child? It would be even more convoluted than explaining how Rey is Luke's kid. The Skywalkers are messed up people, I can buy that circumstances forced Luke to be a deadbeat. But Obiwan? He was just sitting on Tatooine with nothing to do. And if mama took the kid and ran and didn't tell Obiwan, well I guess that's the easiest way to sell it, but it just feels incredibly random. I mean, how would anyone ever know she was Kenobi's grandkid in that case? Are we going to have Obi pop up in a force vision just to tell Rey and the audience that he's granddaddy? That's a great example of telling and not showing, and it sounds stupid.

 

I thought Kenobi's voice in the flashback was only to show that a powerful Jedi we all know who is strong with the light side and who was instructed by Yoda as well as helping Luke, is telling Rey, as if in a dream, that she has Jedi roots and is a force user as well. And that it's her destiny. Luke is still alive, so it only seems right and makes sense given the rest of the vision, that though Luke can't tell her this, Obi-Wan can whisper through the ether to her.

I don't feel the other parallels mentioned here to Kenobi are strong enough. If she's a Kenobi-Skywalker, still Luke's daughter, that could happen but it may require pretzel-inducing dialogue or flashbacks. It would seem contrived.

I think the film had strong hints that she's Luke's, and if they show that to be the case, that would be very satisfying to me. I mean, there's still a mystery to it. It was strongly alluded to, but not said aloud. I think I read somewhere that the filmmakers didn't want to reveal her identity in this film an save it for the next film. They did set it up to be tantalizing.

 

RobbyV found the rabbit trail that highlights his being cast as both "Clan Leader" and "Knight of Ren" but Mark Stanley's character is my top contender to be Rey's father/Obi-Wan's son (if Obi-Wan is a relative at all):

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4440305/

 

Raz Zaphon
That's a really great find!!

Just today, there were some people on a Knights of Ren facebook page talking about who they thought that clan leader/Knight of Ren was. They came to the conclusion that this man was Constable Zuvio.

This seems more reasonable though.

 

The Zuvio connection essentially boils down to "they have similar hats." I wouldn't put too much weight on a design choice. It's my view that Zuvio was conceived as a character earlier and that the Clan Leader came in later in production. (Lawrence Kasdan said of the vision sequence "J.J. worked that thing again and over and over and never stopped") It makes sense that Abrams would keep a design that he liked for a different character.

It was a great find, to the point where I kind of feel like it should stay buried. The mystery box needs to serve its purpose until the films reveal the truth. This information that RobbyV traced might just pick the lock. Despite how I can't keep myself from discussing it, I'm hoping this doesn't get picked up on and spread around.

 

You have a really nice way of thinking about this.

Yeah, this is a pretty great find and I think that it'd be good to preserve the magic of this moment for other people if the next film goes back to it (which is probably will since everything in that lightsaber sequence seems like it was, is or will be extremely significant).

 

But according to The Clone Wars series, there was only one person Kenobi would have wanted to be with if not for his commitment to the Jedi and that was Dutchess Sateen of Mandalore, but they never developed a relationship and she died before the events of ROTS.

And yes, TCW is still canon.it would be awfully hypocritical of Kenobi to chastise Anakin for having a secret wife and children if had some of his own out there.

 

There is simply NO way this could be pulled off without being extremely jarring...

 

Supposing Obi-Wan had a relationship with a woman, they could parallel it with the way Anakin and Padme's story ended: Obi-Wan's wife/gf gets pregnant and 1) He doesn't know it, or 2) He does know, but he thinks she dies before giving birth, causing Obi-Wan to deal with depression for years and find solace in watching over Luke. Or simply, he doesn't know she's pregnant and same thing--she dies, or disappears or whatever. In short, he doesn't know he had a child, which would help explain (not that it's really necessary) why he never mentions it to Luke.

LUKE: You never told me you had a child!
OBI-WAN: You never asked! Plus, I didn't find out til I was a force ghost!

And therefore, the child himself/herself doesn't know (because mom never told) that he/she is Obi-Wan Kenobi's child, and the word never gets out. Over time though, they put the pieces together and figure it out.

 

There are all sorts of reasons here for Rey to be a Kenobi but in my opinion the symbolism between the two duels is just too strong to ignore.

 

She probably picked up her accent from Unkar, since nobody else around the place spoke British English. Notice how young Rey has no British accent?

It's funny what people cite as clues to relation. If Rey grew a beard I might be convinced...

 

It would also give them a reason to make a Kenobi movie about Obi Wan's days on Tatooine. Who doesn't want to see that? To be honest, I'd much rather see that than a Han Solo movie even.

 

I'd like to see both honestly.

 

There are canon comic books about those years of Kenobi in Tatooine -- Star Wars 6 & 7 from last year.

 

Beautiful. The SKB duel really was the Death Star duel and the Mustafar duel rolled into one.

AMEN!

1. Obi-Wan likely considers himself retired from being a Jedi, at least in terms of the code.
2. Love/sex is not the issue for Jedi. The issue is attachment- an uncontrolled greed towards loved ones.
3. Obi-Wan was a more emotionally steady Padawan than Anakin was as a Jedi Knight. He could handle loss in a way that Anakin could not.
4. Obi-Wan always approached Anakin from the angle of the Jedi Order, and the risk of expulsion, never from a "Love makes you go bad!" angle.

Not really any more random than Vader being Luke's father. How did he know Luke was his son? How did Palpatine know? Now, I grant you that we are far more acquainted with Obi-Wan at this point, than we were with Vader at the original release of Episode IV, but I think it takes a very small amount of imagination to come up with a scenario where Obi-Wan has offspring, doesn't make him look like a deadbeat, and deliver the information in a way that is not cumbersome.

I mean, you mentioned a really good theory right there. Maybe Mrs. Kenobi took off without telling Obi-Wan. Maybe Obi-Wan believed she was dead.

I think it won't take any more than another force vision or voice from Obi-Wan, and a brief conversation with Luke to deliver all we need to know (with perhaps the full story coming out in an Obi-Wan spin-off). I think of how much information we got on Kylo Ren- his relationship to Vader, Han, Leia, and Snoke, delivered piecemeal throughout the film. The more important question is
"Why Obi-Wan?"

To which my theory is that Rey and Kylo will be a reversal of Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship. Enemies becoming allies in the end, due to Rey's incorruptibility, and that kernel of light still possibly within Ben Solo. Can Rey bring Leia's son back to her? She could be her only hope. Will she pull him back to the light? Or will she dismiss him as "twisted and evil", deciding he must be destroyed? Was Kylo the one who left her on Jakku to spare her life? Did they care about each other once? Will they again?

Anyway, my point is, with some imagination, I can picture ways it could work. And I think it can be done in an artistic and satisfying way.

Except that Maz pretty much tells Rey that Luke is not her family. "The ones you're waiting for (your family), they're never coming back...But there is someone who still could!"

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Obi-Wan might have found love more than once in his life. The difference is that Anakin was trying to have a family and be a part of the Jedi Order, Obi-Wan was not.

If I can imagine it being done, I'm certain the film makers can.

Artistic. Choices. Not literal interpretation.

I'm sure there's still plenty to cover yet in a 10 year time span.

 

Obi Wan NEVER actually chastised Anakin for having a wife, ever. He chastised him for the whole "going evil and helping to slaughter all of the Jedi" thing, but that's a separate matter. And in the OT, Obi Wan talks about Anakin being a father like it's no big deal, so there's that as well.

I doubt that it'd be Satine herself just because I don't know that they'll bring in stuff from TCW. I personally wouldn't mind it, but I just don't see it happening.

BUT, it does set the precedent that Obi Wan is not a rigid ideologue when it comes to the "no attachment" rule. Plus he had like 20 years of living alone in the desert to contemplate his and the old Order's mistakes and maybe change his views somewhat. Also, perhaps he met and had a relationship with a woman during that time.

 

Which artistic choices among these should we consider then?

• Rey sneaking around in a death star - Obi-wan!
• Rey's desert clothes - Luke!
• Rey in the desert - Obi-Wan! No Luke!
• Rey staring at the desert horizon - Luke!
• Jakku is like Tatooine - Luke! No Obi-Wan!
• Rey's staff - Random! (Darth Maul?)
• Rey's familiarity with the Millennium Falcon - Han!
• Rey fixing a droid's antenna - Luke!
• Rey's friendship with a black man - Han!
• Rey's British accent - Obi-wan!
• Young Rey's American accent - Random!
• Rey/Han finishing each other's sentences - Han!
• Rey's duel - Obi-wan!
• Rey's mechanical skills - Luke!
• Rey's new costume at the end - Han!
• Rey's theme - Anakin/Obi-Wan/Luke!

On sheer number of symbols alone, "Luke" trumps everything else (not that I think Luke is Rey's father).

I understand the concept, but it doesn't work for Rey in this movie because the various symbols point to different directions. Motifs or symbolic clues in movies point us to one, correct direction, not all possible directions. That's why symbolism in film is so satisfying because when you go back to them, they have consistency. Symbols that point us in different directions are more likely to be red-herrings.

 

Obi-Wan tells Anakin "This weapon is your life!" as he hands him a saber.

Obi-wan is sent on a mission to take Anakin's life, which he doesn't want to do. Instead of literally finishing him off, he takes his saber (now "the" saber). This might be his pulling a "point of view" on Yoda, choosing to interpret his order in a very figurative way. It can represent his withdrawal of friendship from Anakin. (Cutting off a guy's legs could also be seen as that, but c'mon, samurai symbolism is totally going on here!)

When Obi-Wan meets Luke, he gives him that saber and tells him about the Jedi way it represents. The approval he withdrew from Anakin, he extends now to Luke. When he's yelling at Anakin about his dashed hopes — those hopes now rest in Luke.

Luke at first accepts the offer of help and friendship. He has the saber with him when he hears from Obi-Wan above the Death Star. We see it used very prominently on Hoth right around the time Ben's ghost appears. Luke uses the Force to get the saber and fight with it; then, the ghost. No, I'm not saying the thing is a literal Obi-Wan antenna, but symbolically, they're linked. Luke shows he's still following the path Ben laid out for him. He calms himself as he was taught, uses the Force, and learns he next step: go to Dagobah.

But then Luke rebuffs Ben's guidance when he leaves to fight Vader on Bespin. There, as he fights in defiance of Obi-Wan's wishes, he loses the saber that was symbolic of Obi-Wan's approval. When he speaks to Ben's ghost in ROTJ, it's clear he considers himself his own man and no longer sees Ben as an instructor.

The saber reappears in Maz's basement. When Rey picks it up, she has a vision. One of the things he hears is Obi-Wan's voice telling her these are the first steps — very similar to what Ben tells Luke on the Falcon, when he deflects the blaster bolts. The saber that represents the "Kenobi seal of approval" is being offered to Rey, but — like Luke before her — she rejects it to go her own way. She runs outside, where Kylo captures her.

Then there's the interrogation scene, which in this sense is also like the scene of Vader trying to recruit Luke on Bespin. Luke/Rey have been disarmed; their powers have proven inadequate. In both cases, Vader/Kylo want something from them, trying to get it in a conversation with an outstretched, grasping hand. In both cases, it doesn't work. Rey does the mind trick exactly like Obi-Wan does it. It would make way more sense for Rey to plead/threaten, with the Force giving her words an unexpected punch. Instead, she's obviously trusting in the power of the Force. Like Luke in the Wampa's cave, she has to get her head straight and try again. She's now taking the "first steps" Ben talked about on the Falcon: calm, control, trusting in the Force.

In the woods, she's rewarded when the saber flies to her hand. She found that the path she chose didn't work; changed her mind, took the path Obi-Wan spoke of in her vision; and the saber that represents Obi-Wan's guidance returns to her.

Now, this doesn't explain everything. In one sense, it doesn't explain anything — "She's Obi-Wan's blood" doesn't even come close to explaining Rey's powers. It doesn't explain how she won that duel. But there are interesting parallels that suggest that the lightsaber, which seems like it would totally be a "Skywalker thing," works well if you look at it as a "Kenobi thing."

 

We don't know what went on during that mission on Mandalore when Obi-Wan was a Padawan - when they spent nearly a year together:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Satine_Kryze

The Jedi Council sent Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his apprentice Obi-Wan Kenobi to Mandalore to protect the young duchess from her enemies. The insurgents sent bounty hunters after Satine to eliminate her, forcing the two Jedi to remove the duchess from Mandalore for her own protection. They remained on the run with no certainties about what the next day would bring for nearly a year. At some point, they were attacked by a swarm of venom-mites on Draboon and Obi-Wan carried Satine to safety. However, the Padawan fell and dropped her, leaving her with a permanent scar from the fall. During this time, Satine and Obi-Wan begun to develop feelings for one another.[5]
Eventually, the uprising was defeated and Satine was allowed to return to Mandalore. The death toll wrought by the war was immense and the young duchess was left with the difficult task of rebuilding her world. Her committement to Mandalore ended her relationship with Kenobi, who left to continue his Jedi training despite his feelings for her. Both were left heartbroken by their separation and Kenobi later admitted that, had Satine asked him to stay, he would have left the Jedi Order for her.[5]

If she'd gotten pregnant late during that period - she may have concluded that, for his sake, she must not let him know - but conceal it from him - so he can pursue his destiny as a Jedi.

Considering that countries generally frown on their royals when they produce illegitimate offspring - she may have passed the child off as somebody else's - perhaps that of one of her siblings.

A possible candidate:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Korkie_Kryze

Though it may be a somewhat far-fetched theory.

 

Rey Jinn
Ragin'...
Funny, but kinda hokey.

 

Its not all that crazy a leap that Luke is daddy and Obi-wan is grandpa.

 

That would have made for some "interesting" conversations between Luke and Obi Wan.