The Chocolate Factory Discussion (Willy Wonka (1971) and Charlie (2005))

Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

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Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

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These are definitely two of the greatest cult fantasies. I never read the Roald Dahl book but I can only imagine since both movies were pretty good.

The Gene Wilder version is a classic. What I like about this is pretty much the Oompa Loompa songs. Oompa Loompa doopety doo, I've got another puzzle for you. Oompa Loompa doopety dee, if you are wise you'll listen to me, what do you get when you... I better stop there. Seriously those songs get stuck in my head.

The Oompa Loompas themselves are pretty cool. They're cute and they're mischievous. I remember the first time I saw this, I was so upset at the end because Wonka was testing Charlie by being the eccentric bad guy about the fizz room. The kids signing isn't bad. I like Veruca's I want it now song and Wonka's song when they go to the room where everything is chocolate.



The Johnny Depp version I really liked. But it had its flaws. I didn't like Deep Roy as the Oompa Loompas, though the whole Christopher Lee plotline was pretty interstings. The songs were over the top but still catchy.

The kids were really good. Especially Augustus. I'm eating ze vonka bar and I taste something that is not chocolate. Coconut, carmel, peanut butter, butter butta, nougat, sprinkles, and I look and I find the golden ticket.

Violet and Veruca were really modernized as well from the last movie as was Mike Teevee. No longer is he obessed about cowboys and western but video games. Both movies are great.

 

both are good movies. i'd have to say though that I like the songs from the first one better though

 

Well the Oompa Loompa songs are quite hypnotizing in WWatCF.

From CatCF

Augustus Gloop song: I really like it. I has the big band feel. It's the song where you want to throw your hands up in the air and dance.

Violet Beauragarde song: It's okay but it gets annoying. It tries for the techno feel and to me it could be better.

Veruca Salt song: A very cute song about a brat. It's a song that can easily can choreographed in a complex way. The halibut and steak parts make me laugh.

Mike Teevee song: This has that metal feel to it. I like the beginning. Subliminally it has this violence quotient to it, which reflects the character. It's okay.

 

*waits for Mace Windy*

 

I think the 71 version is much better than the 05, not just song-wise either. Gene Wilder's Wonka was a much more mysterious (and funnier) figure than Depp's, who came off as a guy who just had too much of his own candy. The flashbacks about Wonka's father in Burton's version seemed arbitrary and unnecessary.

If you want the true measuring stick, compare the boat rides. The '71 version caused, and will continue to cause, nightmares for generations. The '05 version treats the boat ride like a waterpark ride.

Song-wise, there's only one bad one in the original ("Cheer Up Charlie"), but you can easily fast forward through it. The rest are great and will easily get stuck in your head ("I've got the Golden Ticket!") The songs in the '05 version are okay, but easily forgettable.

There's something really magical about the '71 version, while the '05 version is mass-marketed Tim Burton, a notch above Planet of the Apes but below Batman.


But Charlie, remember what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted. . . He lived happily ever after.

 

I get bored easily by the story. Everything leading up to their entry into the Factory is good stuff. But then we get bogged down in the process of bumping off all the children. Not enough variation IMO. Yes, they all go in different ways, but they do all go.

 

I like the original better all though the Burton version is the new favorite

I probably wouldn`t like the 71 version if Wilder wasn`t involved though

 

But Charlie, remember what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted. . . He lived happily ever after.

I think that's a cheap last line because it make kids believe that you'll be happy if you're given the world. At least CatCF closed on a family oriented scene, focusing on the fact that you're happy that you're surrounded by your family.

 

I agree there hehe It all most encourages kids to whine

Gene Wilder is still the better Wonka

 

Wow...I am absolutely astonished. I had no idea that Gene Wilder had such a following, or that there were so many supporters of the 71 version. I have always found it bland, colorless, painful, dull, dreary, and exceptionally forced, and was extremely reluctant to see the new version for fear that it would be more of the same. I was absolutely astonished and astounded by the new incarnation. It actually breathes magic into the story, instead of relying on obnoxious pretension (which, I must admit, has a very large and money-soaked following, so I understand where the creators of the original were coming from) Thankfully, that feeling was minimized to a bearable degree.

Depp made a far more appropriate, realistic, yet mysterious Wonka than Wilder. The addition of a backstory and a logical, believable chain of events that led to his character becoming the creature that we see on screen today was at the very heart of the movie. The children, while they dominated the majority of the screen time, were not the core of the film. Sadly, this entire backstory/sidestory was completely lacking in the original. It is tragic to see how much better the original version could have been with only a few more scenes thrown in.

The atmosphere of the new film also was more appropriate to the story, and the set designs immaculate. There was a level of unease and general maccabre creepiness that just wasn't present in the 71, but which was so essential in making you feel as if you are inside, living the movie, instead of just watching a theatrical production from a distance. The Michael Jackson homages were icing on the cake.

Seems that I am doomed to minority opinion on this one. It always is an uphill battle, though for a new upstart to attain a more appreciated review than a well-established sentimentalist film.

 

No, I agree with you. I've always hated the original and was never even able to make it through the whole film. The new one on the other hand was great. I was completely surprised by how much I enjoyed it. The only reason I even saw it in the first place is because I'm a big Tim Burton and Johhny Depp fan, and I think they both did an excellent job. I didn't even mind the songs, which was something I was worried about having to suffer through.

 

Of all the words that I could use to describe Depp's Wonka, realistic would not be near the top.

Yes, I'm biased. I grew up with the original film, but it holds up extremely well now. I even get more of the jokes and references now than when I was younger. I was actually watching it on ABC family a month or so ago and they skipped through the boat ride! I was appalled.

 

I've seen both movies and I can say that CatCF is the better film.

Charlie is more believable and more sympathetic character and exhibits more of that innocence that isn't as crafted as well as the first movie.

Violet and Veruca and equally brattier than the ones in the original, making you love to hate them. And they play off better than old ones do.

Augustus is more believable here and definitely is a better example of gluttony. And then Mike, I liked the cowboy persona from the original and he's better than the new one.

 

I have to be perfectly honest and say that I didn't really like the original. Way too irritating for me. But the 2005 version was really good IMO. I like Depp's Wonka far better, mainly because I love larger-than-life recluse characters. I even prefer the '05 Oompa Loompas to the original!

 

Blasphemous! How can Deep Roy be better than the 71 Oompa Loompas? Hey it's okay, but I do agree that Depp is better than Wilder.

I didn't grow up on Gene Wilder, but obviously on Johnny Depp. Depp takes this character to one of an enigma with attributes of a not-so-perfect past and eccentricity. The eccentricity definitely reflects Burton himself and by directing Depp in his unique way, he really showed a grey side of Wonka. You can't tell if he's good, lead you into a trap or something completely else.

 

I agree but not totally disagree. IMO; Johnny Depp could have done a little more studying by watching Mr.Wilder a few more times in the original Willie Wonka movie. (I'm not knocking the '05 version)

 

There are subtleties that Depp didn't catch, but still he was definitely the perfect and obvious choice for the 2005 version. Pretty much Burton and Deep inseperable.

 

Gene Wilder's Wonka > Johnny Depp's Wonka
Johnny Depp > Gene Wilder

The original was the better film (even though Dahl hated it). I would like to see the Great Glass Elevator made though. I loved that book.

 

The newer Great Glass Elevator was better IMO. It was completely made out of glass unlike the 71 version, which looked like a Sci-Fi escape pod. Also you can have more fun with the newer one because since it is completely made out of glass, you don't know where you parked the thing.

 

Yeah, and had Depp be closer to Wilder's Wonka, the other half would scream "rip-off!", so I rather have a new one (even though I never saw the old one), which is easier to accept, unless you have attachment to the old, which is all too familiar to us since we're on a Star Wars site...

 

I loved the first one, haven't seen the new one.

 

The Depp version is at least worth a rent. It's similar to all of Burton's other films, a bit too similar in so many ways.

 

How do you mean by too familar? How would you compare the way his other films were made from the way CTCF was made?

 

All of Burton's films have that dark enigmatic tone to them that matches the persona of the director. Anytime I watch CATCF or Corpse Bride or Batman or Edward Scissorhands, I can just tell it's a Burton movie, without any previous knowledge of the director or title. I can't explain it, Burton has this uniqueness he puts into each of his films that you know it's his film.

 

Thank you for ze analogy mole. You can tell me more tomorrow at work. VIVA LA RESISTANCE!!!! LONG LIVE ZE MOLE!