Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.20 - The Wrong Jedi (Season Finale) - discussion thread

Indeed.

Again, if this was the end of the series, I'd be pissed off. If this is the end of Barriss, I'll be pissed off. However, I feel like this episode is setting things up for the future, and I would rather have all this stuff that didn't get explained here be given it's due in a place and time where it can be focused on to the extent it deserves.

 

It was so obvious that Padme was going to be dragged into this when Tarkin said Ahsoka should have a non-Jedi representative.

It could have been anyone.

 

Also why did Padme get another character model when Mace has only had one, and it's extremely dated.
Saesee Tiin's VA wasn't as good as previously, he sounded too much like the clones.
Again, these are minor but just things that popped into my head.

 

Bariss is now officialy a Moron. Becoming corupt her own, because jedi are corrupt..

Thank you TCW?

 

This is possibly the biggest problem with the show. Anything that happens could literally be performed by anyone. There is nothing about any situation in this show that warrants the Characters we see. The dialogue, plots and settings are so generic that the only reason Anakin or Obi Wan are used is to try and make it seem more important than it really is.

Need a senator? Padme is the only one. Not Chuchi (who is also Ahsoka's Friend). Need a villain? Barriss (Could be any Jedi, hell I'd take Sinube. An evil geriatric pterodactyl Jedi mastermind?)

 

Seeing Sinube with those younglings makes me think that an episode where Anakin storms the Temple could be very interesting....
Sinube and younglings vs. Vader would be brilliant.

 

Rewatching, I noticed Barriss' final glance at Ahsoka that I did not catch the first time. Her expression says a lot.

God dammit, how long until the next season, again?

 

Also upon my second viewing, I just want to note how god damned amazing the expressions have gotten. It says something when you can tell when Plo Koon of all people is devastated.

 

That's just Star Wars logic, not just prequel logic.

 

quite frankly I enjoyed the episode a lot. I don't really care about EU so it might have been easier for me, but most of all I think its emotional nature was handled brilliantly, with a good use of music and facial expressions over words that hadn't been to that level of excellence in the series before, that felt special.

I'm left wanting for more, and clearly there are going to be follow-ups regarding Barriss, Tarkin, Palpatine, the clones, Anakin/Padme, Anakin/the council... and well obviously Ahsoka, though what I find great is that there is no clue yet about where she's heading.
So yes, I'm not satisfied yet with Barriss involvement , but it felt intentionally short and I can tell TCW crew usually don't justify themselves as much in interviews to tell there will be new questions that will need answers, and I have good faith Barriss role and its ramification will be taken further. In that way I think it doesn't really compare to Krell case.
I liked her cynical, held back attitude even when she was being darker (because she was definitely not portrayed as dark sider), again showed a lot more through facial expressions and voice tones rather than words, then I get the feeling more words will come later. Time will tell, but the somewhat incomplete nature of this episode (and thus whole arc) seems way more on purpose than uncontrolled/unconsidered to me.

And I need more Ventress, seriously she steals the show every second she appears, and since "Bounty" (one of my fans of the whole series) I can't deny she has earned her place among my top saga characters.

Moreover, it does feel like the whole series approach is going to be transformed by these events, I guess more focus back on Anakin/Obi-wan relationship and many new unexpected possibilities. Hopefully for 2/3 more seasons, I know I'd enjoy, may it be true.

Like after each season finale, I'm very happy to have weekly great Star Wars adventures to enjoy, now please LFL reassure us and tell season 6 is coming in full throttle!!

 

For "The Wrong Jedi"
Idea: 9/10
Execution: 6/10

So the Jedi, the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, expel Ahsoka from the Order after a 1 minute trial. No question asked, just empty accusations without any evidence to support them.
Conclusion: Happy that the Jedi Order is violently destroyed in RotS. They deserved it for their stupidity they've shown so far. The galaxy is actually a better place without them.

So when Anakin meets Ventress, she says something like "Prove it!" What?!?! Why did she run away? Prove what? That she is guilty? Yeah, right - telling someone to prove that you're guilty and then running away will most definitely prove your innocence. Stupid.
Conclusion: Just a poor excuse to have yet another action scene.

So I'm okay with Barriss being the villain here. I "smelled" her from "The Jedi Who Knew Too Much". It's just that her motivation is really stupid. Let's think about this for a second.
So she goes to bomb the Jedi Temple to prove that the Jedi are becoming violent. What?? Hey, lady, here's a hint - you just bombed the friggin' Jedi Temple! And you killed a few people doing so. How the heck do you think this will prove anything other than the fact that you're a crazy, murderous traitor?

Oh and the thing that I found hilarious was that she says that the Jedi are behind the war. I repeat, a member of the Jedi Order thinks that the Jedi (that includes her too) are behind the war!
Lady, in that universe have you been living? Are you saying that the Jedi were behind the Naboo blockade? Are you saying that the Jedi tried to assassinate Amidala? That the Jedi are behind the Separatist movement? That the Jedi created the droid army?

Granted, the Jedi stupidly used the clone army to defend themselves, even if they knew that the army itself was created in mysterious circumstances. Okay, but that is just another reason to be thankful that these morons get destroyed in RotS.
But besides that, what other options did they have? Let the Separatists attack with they droid army while the only thing standing between them and conquering the Republic being the Jedi Order? Sure...

If Barriss had such "noble" intentions, why did she try to frame Ahsoka? Her friend and one who obviously isn't behind the war? Why not try to frame another Jedi? One from the High Council, one who actually is responsible for stupid decisions?

Ahsoka still thinks that Ventress tried to kill her? What in the name of...? Ventress lets Ahsoka live, even though she could have killed her right then and there. But she let Ahsoka live. She even gave Ahsoka her lightsaber back.
Also, how stupid do you have to be to think that Ventress would try to attack you, with her mask on, even though you know that the mask is hers? Why would Ventress continue to hide her face? Why would Ventress attack her? It makes no sense.
But when the plot needs Ahsoka to reach dumb conclusions, she reaches dumb conclusions.

The moment I saw Amidala saying that she will speak for Ahsoka, I knew that the trial won't go well. At all. And, surprise, it didn't...
What a shock...

So after the big trial is over and Ahsoka is proved to be innocent, the Jedi Council round up and start patting her on the back saying how awesome she is? This was the apex of stupidity shown by the Jedi Order during the prequel era.
Guys, you were almost responsible for her death! You destroyed her career, you destroyed her reputation and now you're like "Well, we hope that you've learned something from this". I think that you should have learned something from this, dear Jedi Council. If I were you, I would have left the High Council and let some other competent Jedi take our place. Because obviously you're mentally compromised.
Are you still saying that no one, I repeat NO ONE, in the Order except Anakin contributed to the investigation regarding the bombing of their own temple? What a bunch of...

What I liked about this episode (and arc) was that finally we have some character development. Finally a decision leaves a lasting impact on a character. Something that matters finally happened, after 5 seasons of pressing the "reset" button every few episodes. If only the rest of the series was like this...
Another thing that saves this is the animation, voice acting and music.

The idea behind the last few episodes was a good one. Unfortunately the execution was poor and the reasons why I think that are stated above.
I understand it's a kid's show, but considering the insane amount of money invested in the series, I imagined that they would be a bit more professional and more competent at story telling.

 

Looking back one more time, I really feel that Barriss' line about Ventress' sabers suiting her ties into her beliefs that she has become the villain, just as every Jedi has. I think it was meant less in a "look at how evil I am!" sort of way, and more of a "I am just as corrupt as the original owner" sort of way.

Seriously, Barriss has some self-loathing issues, looks like. And I love how all the Jedi look away when she gives her speech. Even Anakin looks contemplative.

 

Initial impressions:

This delivered. If The Clone Wars goes out on this, I'll be satisfied.

When Ahsoka says "I know" at the end of the episode, I'm left wondering if part of what she means is that she knows about Padme.

I found myself so very much wishing that Anakin had just gone with her.

Please, Ahsoka, don't come back. Go. Live. Be happy. Stay away from what's coming. I really hope the series just leaves her story at this.

The part of the duel in which Anakin lands among the younglings was some very sad foreshadowing of what we know is coming.

Barriss's actions may have been wrong, but her reasons are right. Soon, the whole galaxy will know just how right she was. I wonder if she will become a symbol - and of what, to whom?

I guess you can move pretty good in a floor-length dress if you really want to. Who knew?

I wonder whether Vader will hold this against Tarkin.

Very cagey of Anakin to have grabbed Barriss's lightsabers as soon as he walked in.

"Does Anakin Skywalker have to choke a bitch?" Well, I guess he does. Repeatedly.

I was pretty sure that Ventress didn't buy that lame line about Ahsoka getting her a pardon, and just helped because she felt sympathy for her. Glad to see that I was right on that.

The new voice actor for Palpatine was very noticeable. Not that Tim Curry did a bad job, just that he sounds noticeably different.

Also noticeable is that Ashley Eckstein's voice is getting to be a bit if a mismatch to Ahsoka. Snips looks 14, sounds 30. Again, her performance is fine, but it's noticeable.

The different end credits seem to signal a special significance to this episode. It may indeed be the last we get, at least on regular television.

 

Good but disappointing episode:

- Why was no explanation given on how Barriss infiltrated the prison, killed three clone troopers and Force-choked Letta from God knows where without detection?

- Surely Barriss should have been executed, just as Ahsoka would have been? All we know is that she is taken away. Bah.

- No mention about Ventress' possible pardon at the end. What happens to her lightsabers?

- No Sly Morre, no Oppo Rancisis. Typical.

- Surprised that Saesee Tiin spoke as much as he did, that was good. But where did the other Council Masters disappear to during the trial and end scene?

- FINALLY, COLEMAN ******* KCAJ.

- I was hoping for at least one death in this episode. Bah.

- Out of all the Senators who could have represented Ahsoka, it had to be Padme. Of course.

- Regardless of the Force, doesn't Anakin seem to find Ventress a bit too quickly?

- Good old Ventress. Makes any episode seem better.

- Anakin has his Jedi robe on. We've seen far too few of them on this show.

- I like Tim Curry, we'll see how well he portrays Palpatine in future episodes. I thought he was ok in this one.

- That trial must have lasted a pretty long time for Anakin to travel to the Underworld, talk to Ventress, return to the Jedi Temple, duel Barriss and take her to the trial.

- Really liked the duel, and of course my fanboyship for Barriss grows ever stronger. But goodbye Reversal of Fortune, MedStar I & II and the ROTS comic. It was fun while it lasted.

- Where was Luminara? It would have been interesting to see her reaction to her fallen Padawan.

- Nice to hear more of John Williams' themes.

- Nice contiunity with Tera Sinube and the Younglings. Seems the green/blue/purple/red lightsaber only rule has been thrown out since we see yellow and white blades.

This episode could have been handled so much better, this arc could have possibly been five episodes long.

 

That worked fine with Katara in Legend of Korra.

 

Maybe that was her evil twin. Did anyone check her for a Garthe Knight-style soul patch?

 

Yoda's look and expression at the end made me think this was also Anakin's Trial of attachment which had he not run after Ahsoka, would have been granted Jedi Master status.

 

Yes well said! you summed up part of my thoughts better, actually I like that there is still unanswered matters, some will be explained more later I'm sure, but some like you point out are left for interpretation, and to me this is pretty much Star Wars. Long explanations to wrap up the arc would have been kinda knocking out not to mention a bit banal, but I can see and understand many will be asking why-why as it's already started, I'm assuming mainly the many fans around 15-20 years old who often request the most straight explanation but maybe I'm assuming too much and I don't want to sound provocative lol

Narutakikun you made some good points too!

Also I want to add to my first reaction, that the Barriss fight was downright amazing as some pointed already, definitely not the average lightsaber confrontation on several levels!
Ventress attitude was touchingly sincere (Nika Futterman is badass btw), pleasantly surprising that in such situation she leans a bit more toward her good side and definitely shows a certain sense of integrity and maturity, she can deal with her emotions, which was not granted after what happened last week. In my book, Ahsoka owe her one all the more now, I'm really looking forward to them meeting again, both can help each other grow to some extend.

Tim Curry sounded better than what I first felt with the preview, I guess I must get used to his slower speaking pattern, but this was more than decent performance.

"The Jedi who knew too much" remains my fav of the arc, truly thrilling, it was quite a middle act same way as Empire Strikes Back. Overall fantastic arc calling for great others.

 

A definite mixed bag. The stuff that was good, was really good. But each element had the potential to be great, yet was dragged down by the usual shortcomings.

- I was under the impression they were using Barriss to play off the friendship she has with Ahsoka, and maybe this would be given prominence throughout the episode. They could have at least redeemed themselves a little by capitalising on their choice of culprit. But nope. We get one mildly surprised look from Ahsoka, and that's it. Which begs the question: why Barriss? That role really could have been performed by anyone, it was as generic as they come. I can kinda understand her reasoning, but why pick Barriss? It doesn't suit her. She's been shown as the most passive character ever on this show. I think had they chosen someone else, it would have worked infinitely better and you would have believed the character's motivations. Again, the role could have been performed by anyone. The same goes for Padme representing Ahsoka in the tribunal. Why does it have to be Padme? Why not, you know, lawyers? I don't know if I'm misunderstanding how the Republic does these things but the concept of it being entirely run by Senators doesn't sit well with me. Does this happen in the real world, is there a precedent for something like this?

- The duel was good. I think better than Sidious vs Maul and Savage. I liked that it went into so many parts of the Temple. Even if it was fully exercising the Rule of Cool with two dual-wielders sparring off despite neither of them having relevant training. Maybe they cancelled each other out, who knows. I especially liked the little slo-mo matrix moment at the end. But it really shouldn't have happened in the first place. Anakin was right, she should have gotten rid of Ventress' lightsabers, the only reason she held on to them was for the sake of confirming what we the audience already know and to set up the duel. "I think they suit me" was a lame, stupid line.

- In fact, there was a lot of ham-fisted dialogue. Too many to list. Most of it concerning Barriss' turn of character. I have to address this again: that was possibly the most forced thing I have ever seen. It's not believable. I also didn't think much of Ventress' interrogation, those lines didn't work for me. Something something Harrison Ford quote: "You can write this **** George but you sure as hell can't say it." Oh, and that one Ahsoka line at the end: "The Jedi Council didn't trust me, so how can I trust myself?" Uh, what? Sounds like someone couldn't think of a good enough reason for her to refuse re-entry.

- Speaking of which, I don't buy that Ahsoka would refuse to come back to the Jedi. Scratch what I just said, I think this is the most forced thing I've ever seen. There is no in-universe logic to explain it, that was another Maul. From what I gathered it amounted to "I need time to think about this on my own." Okay. But you've never known any other life outside of the Jedi, at the beginning you said they're family. Or someone said they're family to her. Barring the usual writing tropes, I don't buy that after this one incident she'd willingly refuse to come back. Sorry we thought you were behind this, we were complete retards, the evidence was sketchy at best, you may now rejoin the Order. No thanks, our fans have been complaining about too many story arcs returning to the status quo by the end, so here's some forced plot and character twists. I want to like the concept, because it ties up one of the loose ends of TCW leading into ROTS (plus it means significantly less Ahsoka from now on, which can only be a plus), but the execution was so lacking IMO. Except for the part where the music was incredibly sad. I will admit, that got me good, particularly when they played the sombre version of Ahsoka's theme over the credits. How hilarious would it have been to have the usual upbeat credits music after that scene. Kiner definitely did a good job at the end, the full orchestra really pulled it off and compensated for some awful dialogue. Although I am reminded of one of my favourite quotes from Darth_Zandalor: "THIS IS THE SAD PART OF THE EPISODE BECAUSE OF THE SAD MUSIC ARE YOU SAD YET BECAUSE YOU SHOULD BE SAD HENCE THE SAD MUSIC."

- Oh, and I loved how they put in that "Actually, this was your Great Trial and we'd like to knight you (why? She didn't do anything), because this is one of the things fans have been asking for" line from Mace, just so they could screw over anyone hoping for that fate. I also loved how they hinted Ahsoka knew about Anakin and Padme. You know, because they're so subtle about it. It's a wonder they kept it secret for so long.

- And finally, Tim Curry is awful as Palpatine. Absolutely terrible. Bring Ian Abercrombie back from the dead to reprise his role. It's not just that he sounds bad compared to the late Ian, he's just bad and he doesn't sound anything like Palpatine.

All in all, meh. Again, the second half of this arc failed to deliver after the first half really started to show potential. I think it's testament to the fact that their four-parter strategy doesn't work because these stories don't work when stretched out this much.

 

If you like her, you'd better hope she doesn't. We all know how this story ends for the Jedi.

 

I'm not sure if it's been shown before, but... white/silver lighsaber - well, sabercane - in T-canon.

I really liked Ahsoka leaving the Order. I can't wait to see Anakin's further reactions to this and her eventual destiny.

And how was she able to knock Ventress out and steal her lightsabers?

I do not remember how powerful she was shown to be in previous seasons, but powerful enough to defeat Ahsoka? The aforementioned beating up and robbing Ventress? Matching the Chosen One in lightsaber combat?

And did we ever get an explanation as to why Letta killed her own husband in such a grisly manner? Was her cause (which is really dumb) more important than the life of her own husband?

Lastly, Barriss' treason was weak compared to Krell's. Krell has basically become mad from power and constant war, and seeks to join the Sith. Barriss orchestrates mass murder and tries to frame her best friend (why!?) and her reason for this is that the Jedi is fighting for the dark side.

Wat.

 

Also, you'd think that a civilization as advanced as the GFFA, that has lightspeed travel and all, could afford some color monitors in their courtrooms instead of having to use black and white ones.

 

An enjoyable episode.

Anakin and Ahsoka were both great in this and Latner's and Eckstiens Voice acting was really top notch.

My fave part was the Conucil afterwards trying to cover themselves going, yeah this your trial you passed etc and Ahsoka just giving them that look

I personaly don't have a problem with Barriss going bad, just that they could have maybe set the scene so to speak by developing her character so she gets to the point. They could have got rid of the whole Droid arc to make space to do it an all.

Otherwise a good episode 8/10

 

Basically this. This was a great episode for these characters. Even characters like Padme and Obi-Wan were handled well. At the end, Obi-Wan makes a motion as if to follow Anakin after Ahsoka, but Plo Koon holds him back. He's still so attached to his former Padawan. In that scene, I felt a real ROTS vibe, as if we're approaching the end. The warm afternoon glow didn't hurt either. Padme found herself in the position of the effective "loyal opposition" to Tarkin in the hyper-partisan trial. And of course, we see the vaguely sisterly relationship she has with Ahsoka (see Assassin, Heroes On Both Sides) come to a head in this episode, with Padme sticking up for her friend in a kangaroo military tribunal. Even the implication that Ahsoka knows about her and Anakin's relationship is an insight into how the Togruta has become an honourary member of the nascent Skywalker family, making her departure even more poignant.

Wasn't there a bit of hesitation from Anakin when he approaches Barriss' door, as if he would rather not entertain the possibility that his former peer and friend is actually a traitor, but resolves to uncover the truth for his Padawan's sake? It's subtle animation touches like that which embellished the story and gave it a bit more depth than what can be communicated by dialogue alone. Props to Dave Filoni for another well-directed finale.

Naturally, ex-Padawan Ahsoka and ex-Acolyte Asajj could form a cool dynamic duo. They could offer a new neutral perspective right up to Order 66 and into the Dark Times.

Barriss reminded me of RL terrorists and her motivations resembled theirs. Notably, some terrorists and terror suspects have been known to be doctors and other medical professionals, much like Barriss in the EU. She takes notions which even many OOU observers have agreed with to extremes. She sees her violent acts (an attack against the GAR assets in the Jedi Temple, representing the militarisation of the Jedi Order) as lesser to the violence which she believes the Jedi Council endorses and engages in against the Separatists. In general, Barriss has some of the most believable motivations of all TCW antagonists, right up there with Slick and Cho.

The lack of confirmation of Barriss' rank and the possible implication that she has already been knighted (given Luminara's conspicuous absence) strangely had a positive effect on the episode beyond giving hope to MedStar duology fans that those books are still canonical. Much like how TCW has helped make it easier to see Anakin as a man rather than a boy, the hypothetical Knight Barriss is a Jedi unto herself, and she's presented as such. She has developed an ideology independent of her former Master's. She's now close to being Anakin's equal, and even in the duel that she looses, she performs admirably. Her apparent frayed relationship with Ahsoka could be interpreted as in part due to her outgrowing her friend.

I can't help but wonder if Palpatine's monologue about Separatist plots had some relevance, particularly if combined with Ahsoka bringing up the possibility of the mystery Jedi traitor being Tyrannus' new apprentice and even Barriss' remark that red lightsabres suit her. I lean towards that last remark being a self-deprecating reference to how every Jedi, including herself, has become a violent thug according to her ideology, but that itself might be an extension of her new attitude that the distinction between Dark and Light matters so little in this time of war and ubiquitous evil. Even if she isn't a Sith apprentice as of yet (something which hasn't been confirmed or denied, and which I'm okay with), then Palpatine could have taken an interest in her. She has obviously got the evidence stacked against her, but Palpatine could pull a few strings to get her a sentence just shy of execution, or at least a stay of execution long enough for her to join the Separatist leaders in their prison break. She seems fairly convinced that the Jedi are "serving the dark side", which might make her rule out joining with the Sith, but Tyrannus can be quite persuasive...

Anyway, I agree with you that it would suck like a goddamn squid if Barriss was never returned to. I'm leaning towards giving this episode a 9/10 or 10/10 grade, but if an interview comes out (eg. Meredith Salenger: "I've had to say goodbye to Barriss, because I haven't done any more recording sessions," or Dave Filoni: "Yeah, Barriss is deader than Even Piell,) that reveals that Barriss will not be returned to, I'll probably dock some marks. The lack of answers was irritating, but it can be redeemed with a Barriss-focused story in the future. Please don't torpedo my hopes, Filoni, Salenger, Murray or whoever else is.

 

No one seemed concerned that Anakin went into a rage during the final moments of the duel with Barriss; surely Sinube would've been concerned with the Chosen One tapping into the dark side in front of younglings?

Nice set up, though, to show how Palpatine is ensuring how Anakin seems more powerful and wiser than the entire Jedi Council. Lots of pleasant references to RoTS and Anakin's duel with Barriss reminded me of Vader v Luke in ESB.

BIG question is Ventress: she has seen Anakin's dark side. Wonder if Ventress will start making subtle hints to Obi Wan and others, warning them of Anakin's potential fall? Hopefully this is a storyline in Season 6.