Full Series The Clone Wars 7.08 - Together Again- Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Decent episode, this arc should have just been a two parter though, Ahsoka's character development was mainly just reinforcing what she learned in season 5 and a lot of the arc just felt like filler

Also not sure how this works with DD and SoD, the Pyke Syndicate was not scared of Maul at all and left Maul in SoD, but now they're all scared and do whatever he says

IDK, I don't hate this arc but it really feels like a waste of four episodes in an already short final season

Really hoping they address this more in the Siege, I don't think they will but they need to. Last time Ahsoka saw Bo Katan she was laughing while burning down innocent villages, and she only opposes Maul because he's a Zabrak, not because he's evil.

 

The way I see it, the events of Dark Disciple are key to the Pykes rejoining Maul.

So after Son of Dathomir, Mual predictably goes on to rebuild his Shadow Collective with what little Mandalorian forces he has. I would imagine strong-arming smaller gangs into this new Collective would be easy given the caliber of your average Mandalorian warrior and Maul's own martial prowess. Crimson Dawn is either created or taken over by Maul at this time. Following this, comes the events of Dark Disciple, where the newly unaffiliated Pykes get into a syndicate war with the newly unaffiliated Black Sun. Last I checked, both Ventress and Vos seem to think that the Pykes will lose that war, which is where Maul would step in. Either he helps the Pykes survive the Black Sun onslaught, or he approaches a severely depleted Pykes with the offer of rejoining his Shadow Collective once again. Regardless of how it was done, the Pykes are no longer in a position to refuse Maul, and thus, the events of Season 7 occur.

 

This episode does feel a bit like it was contrived around getting Maul his cameo appearance at first glance. That appearance is actually important to setting up SoM. Maul has learned from the best how to manipulate different sides and be a mastermind. It really sets the stakes for what the heroes will be up against in SoM. Defeating Maul won't be just about raw force but is also going to need a master tactician to take him down. I hope heroes too are going to cook up strategies. You really don't need to include SoD for it to make sense now why Sidious would have let Maul go free. His scheming and manipulations make him a great distraction, even possibly a shield as the Jedi are starting to wise up moving toward the end of the Clone Wars.

For the rest of the episode. The beginning is weak. The beginning felt like a backtrack with the sisters once again arguing over whose fault it is they are in the cell. Over if Ahsoka is trustworthy or getting between them. I get its setup for what happens next but I feel like the end of the last episode set it up fine and maybe that's what the Newsreel should have recapped. The episode really starts with Rafa, Trace, and Ahsoka before Marg where Ahsoka offers herself. After that, the episode is fine if not predictable. This whole escape was engineered so Ahsoka could overhear the Maul holo then get into that control room. Once Ahsoka is away from Raja and Trace she no longer has a reason to hold back so she can use her powers freely, initially to escape. Ahsoka would have been out of there if she had not decided to channel Anakin to get the last laugh on these criminals by planting detonators. She just does not tend to be a big picture person like Rex is. But the last episode seemed to be working Ahsoka toward thinking more and punching less. I could see the argument of this all being one plan where Ahsoka saw the big picture and predicted the end. Maybe she did learn that from him. It doesn't feel like she did all this intentionally as a plan since when Trace and Rafa come back she seems genuinely surprised then uses the detonators as a trump card.

Rafa is my favorite of the two sisters, the more complex of the two. She finally lets the good person she has bottled inside come out when she decides to go back for Ahsoka. The plan to steal spice from the Pikes themselves was a convoluted B plot but that was on purpose because neither of these women is the smartest glow sticks at the rave. It's fun watching them bumble through it. Like a true Underworlder Rafa has a definite ruthless streak. Like with the last episode. I doubt it's the first time they have fought and killed. I forgot about the JP Raptor sound effect for the Trandoshans. They take me a little out of world actually because as that is another of my favorite franchises I'm just geeky enough to know that the different sounds the raptors make have a meaning. That Trandoshan did a lot of contact calling and calling for help from packmates which is funny when he is laughing gleefully while trying to kill Rafa.

There isn't that much meat to the big reveal as during the heat of the final escape Ahsoka's reveal as a former Jedi is quickly swept away under the action of the final escape and fun chase through the valley. That's just classic Star Wars and no complaint there. Good homages too. Trace does make flying a ship look even easier than I've accepted it must be.

Instead of getting depth out of Ahsoka's not being truthful, Rafa and Trace come to accept their new friend as the model example of a Jedi. Rafa pushes Ahsoka to go back to what she is, the champion of justice, whether she sports the Jedi title or not. I guess that does serve the build-up to SoM better but it's both sweet and kind of weak at the same time. Bo-Katan deciding to recruit Ahsoka and not getting involved at the end really doesn't make that much sense. Why pick Ahsoka? Why follow her? Is it just because she happened across Ahsoka on her own. Or does Bo-Katan think back to Carlacc and think the same thing as Rafa and Trace of the Jedi who pulled out all the stops to save Lux Bonteri when he got in over his head. That Ahsoka is a powerful Jedi who will stop at nothing to save a person and help those who need it. I do think the "you got five minutes" thing was a threat that either Ahsoka was going with her or Trace and Rafa were going to find themselves on the sharp ends of the Night Owls.

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode. It's a decent episode and I'm sure it will serve the overall arc but it just doesn't deliver a wham! factor at the end. it was kind of boring. It does feel convoluted and stuffed. It's predictable. The reveal wasn't as meaty as I would have liked. I can't see myself giving it more than a 6.5 or 7 at best. This arc felt like the Deception arc but ended up feeling more like the Youngling Arc. Maybe after watching the arc together, this will improve. Disappointing since I have enjoyed this arc.

 

This episode definitely felt more of a continuation of Part 2 than Part 3. Particularly pertaining to Raffa's character development. Which means the only thing Part 3 accomplished was getting the Mando's aware of Ahsoka's presence, which could have easily been resolved with a cameo at the end of Part 2.

The Mando subplot also felt tact on and rushed, particularly pertaining to Ahsoka's bizarre decision to join them after just seeing Maul.

It was nice to get a namedrop of Crimson Dawn, and get into Mauls mindset as the leader of the Shadow Collective, which either means this is either concurrent with Son of Dathomir or Maul put the organization back together after the fact.

 

Nah it's deffently after, and he arm strong them back together. He's now more poewrfull then he was and is probaly the most dangerous crime lord in the underworld, Jabba is a worm compared to Maul right now.

 

Not because he killed Pre Visla and her sister?

 

Her given reason for refusing to join Maul was that he was an outsider.


Bo-Katan: "Never! No outsider will ever rule Mandalore!"

That's not to say that she wasn't upset by the death of Pre Vizsla and Satine at Maul's hand, but Vizsla did agree to the duel and to have it determine the leadership of both the Death Watch and Mandalore. Maul not only won fair and square, but Vizsla even fully accepted his death.

As for Satine, the Death Watch had attempted to assassinate her in the past and most importantly, Bo-Katan opposed Maul before he even murdered Satine so it seems like Bo-Katan would have rationalized her sister's death had it been done by, say Pre Vizsla.

Now, Ahsoka wasn't there for any of this, but it point, in my opinion, towards Bo-Katan rejecting Maul's rule because he's an outsider and that she would have grudgingly accepted/rationalized the death of Pre Vizsla and Satine had their deaths been at the hand of a fellow Mandalorian member of the Death Watch.

It's also possible that Bo-Katan would have opposed anyone, Mandalorian or not, who killed Pre Vizsla and that Maul's status as a non-Mandalorian was merely how Bo-Katan rationalized her defiance. Like I said, Pre Vizsla not only agreed to it but he also accepted his loss, and Bo-Katan didn't object to the duel nor the leadership of the Death Watch hinging on its outcome.

We can rule out Satine's death as a factor/contributing factor since, again, it happened after Bo-Katan had already decided to oppose Maul so it had no bearing on her initial reason for rebelling.

 

Sooo..what did the Martez sisters do with that load of spice they stole to replace the load of spice that got dumped?

 

They built a sand castle out of it, at least, that's what I like to imagine.

 

Ok, this episode took what was left of TCW's tattered chronology, dug up the ashes, sprinkled them about, then danced all over them

So, basically, the Maul scene and the ending muck it all up. I'm 100% convinced the Maul scene is a new embellishment to the original episode (the Nyx version from 2012), since Maul should be in prison right now, a captive of Sidious. The mention of Crimson Dawn is another addition that wouldn't have been there originally. I'm really curious what scene must have existed in the original cut instead of the Maul holo, since at the same time, we know that Ahsoka would have learnt about the Maul/Pykes connection in this arc, thus leading her to Bo-Katan (somehow), though the ending scene was probably very different. Ahsoka going directly to Mandalore basically snips (ha) the Sith Shrine arc out of existence (it's still canon to me, dammit, Ahsoka had a long detour in her flight to Mandalore) .

[Sidenote, but Ahsoka treating Maul being on Mandalore as a reveal is really weird. Did Obi-Wan just forget to tell any other Jedi that Maul was chilling there? Did he think that Maul took over the planet for a lark and had moved on after that? Also a little weird since Ahsoka never once talked directly about knowing Maul, at all.]

One of the Pykes has a line about Maul 'pitting the members of the collective against one another', a line that seems to exist so that the events of Dark Disciple can still happen after this. Seems like it's a replacement for the original 'Maul's in prison, return to chaos' that was intended in the old version.

So now this arc with Ahsoka must be set after Son of Dathomir, since Maul's walking about a free man. Yet, in that arc, Fife was leading the Pykes, Marg Krim having been implied as killed off in the Ventress/Vos arc. So the Ahsoka arc goes to lengths to ensure it's set both before and after SoD

As for the arc as a whole, I like the general concept. Giving Ahsoka a small scale story to test her after leaving the Jedi is really good, though it feels maybe an ep too long. Liked the dynamic with the sisters, more Pykes are cool, finally seeing these eps in general is just amazing. But it feels overburdened, poor thing. It really shouldn't be sandwiched as the middle of 'the final season!!!', it should be a transitory piece a season or two earlier.

Edit: And also the Pykes and Black Sun leave the Shadow Collective at the end of SoD!!! Argh!

 

I have very little good to say about this episode so I won't say much at all. But what I will say is that overall, i found this episode to be very poor. While I liked a lot of what we got in this arc, there was almost no payoff what-so-ever in the end. I feel like Trace and Raffa finding out Ahsoka being a former jedi should have had a much bigger impact in the overall story. Especially since that was big revelation we've been waiting for since the beginning of this arc. I was half expecting Raffa and maybe even Trace to at least turn their backs on her if only for a little while, or accuse her of using them in some way, but no.

Everything about maul felt shoehorned in and honestly necessary. We could have had Ahsoka and Bo katan's meeting in the opening shots of SoM and there would have been no difference. if anything it would have probably been better too because at least this arc would have been it's own standalone thing.

 

Bo-Katan was a member of Deathwatch who was trying to assassinate Satine to restore the old Mandalore. Unfortunately, Pre Vizla decided to get into bed with Maul and Savage after he rescued them from death. Pre underestimating Maul and thinking he could kill him at any time after they got control over Mandalore was one of the dumbest things anyone has ever done in the GFFA. He paid for it with his life. Satine paid for it by being a pawn to be used against Obi-wan while her legacy was **** on. Mandalore lost its freedom. which has I'm sure caused Bo-Katan to reconsider her ways, the price, and knocked her down a peg. I think she is fighting for Mandalore's freedom and to get rid of an Outsider who has caused some of the hemorrhaging. She carries the weight of contributing to all of this.

Still, I don't think she's going to be reformed. In fact, I am hoping Bo-Katan turns out to be much smarter than Pre now that her eyes are open and we'll get to see why he seemed to treater her as his right hand. I think Bo-Katan is masterminding her own game here and taking Maul down is going to need more than just brute force. It's going to need a tactician. Bo-Katan and it would be even cooler if Satine's mother provided the brain-power to back up Ahsoka's raw abilities. A Jedi is worth something like a hundred soldiers, Bo-Katan recruited a Jedi for her plan.

 

I want this

 

Couldn't have put it any better myself. This arc was complete garbage. Character development was about as cliched as it can get. The only thing Ahsoka got out of it was a tenuous friendship built on a little less skepticism than was prevalent in the previous three episodes. But still no growth on her part. No lessons learned. Filoni followed the tough girl with a heart of gold character trope to the letter. We saw the sudden change of heart coming from episode 1 of the arc even though Ahsoka never really gave Rafa a reason to trust or even like her. Trace is the most wishy-washy character alive. She acts exactly how the scene needs her to act. As a reult, any tension that should be in the scene is so forced it loses any impact.

Can they make the Pykes any more incompetent? How do they let the sisters go off without sending someone with to ensure it's not a scam? And after the last escape, you would think they would guard the cell. And when the sisters go to steal the spice, you would think there would be a tractor beam, or a locking device to keep the ship from being able to leave. If the spice is as valuable as claimed, one would think they would put steps in place to prevent potential theft. How did Trace become a good pilot when she'd never flown before? Oh and here's a convenient hidden gun Trace installed on her ship that can shoot in any direction. I could go on, but I don't care enough to continue. Once the grading becomes available, this will go down as another 1/10.

 

Maul being held prisoner did not last long, as Gar Saxon and Rook Kast followed Sidious' ship to Stygion. So they were basically tailing Sidious' shuttle after he captured Maul.

I think Maul is prepping his plans for the invasion that is coming, and getting ready for the fall of the Republic. Mandalore is just a front anyway, he's got plans for survival and continued war effort against the Sith that go beyond the fraudulent Clone Wars and fall of the Jedi.

@
FromDromundKaasWithLove

Interesting enough in Jason Fry's Shadow Conspiracy book, during the end of the duel Bo-Katan attempted to interfere and break the code and Maul was indeed the new Mandalore:


- after Maul flung Vizsla to the floor, Bo-Katan took a step forward, reaching for her weapons, but one of the soldiers stopped her. The warrior code forbade her from interfering. She watched in frustration as Maul leapt on Vizsla with his fists flying, battering the Death Watch commander again and again.

Maul stretched out his hand and the darksaber flew into his grasp.

Vizsla, swaying slightly on his knees, stared at the black blade in Maul's hand. It was beautiful.

"Like you said, only the strongest should rule." Vizsla said. The darksaber howled and Vizsla's headless body slumped to the floor.

Maul raised the black blade, his gaze pinning each warrior in turn.

"I claim this sword -- and my rightful place as ruler of the Death Watch," he proclaimed.

One by one, the Mandalorians dropped to one knee, obeying the code and acknowledging Maul's claim. But Bo-Katan remained on her feet. So did seven other of the Death Watch's warriors. Maul turned his blazing eyes on her, making sure she could read the message there.

Submit ─or pay the price.

"Never!" Bo-Katan yelled. "no outsider will ever rule Mandalore."

"If you will not join me, you will all die," Maul warned.

The warriors who had kneeled now got up slowly, turning until they were facing Bo-Katan and the soldiers who had refused to acknowledge Maul. Both sides raised their weapons.

"You're all traitors!" Bo-Katan yelled.

"Unfortunately, history will not see it that way," Maul said.

"Execute them."

But Bo-Katan's warriors fired first, forcing their former comrades to duck. Bo-Katan fired her blaster furiously at Maul and Savage. They dodged, and the eight rebellious Mandalorans fought their way across the royal chamber. Bo-Katan flicked her wrists and sent a trio of thermal detonators bouncing across the floor. Then she and her followers ignited their jetbacks and streaked across the sky.

Picking himself off the floor of the throne room after the detonators' impacted, Maul stared after the fleeing Mandalorians for a moment, then turned away. They were an annoyance─ no more.

The Death Watch was his to command. He was the new Mandalore.

 

The only flaw in that is that Son of Dathomir #2 opens with Maul saying Grievous has driven them off Zanbar which makes it sound recent.

 

He also forgot to tell them that Ventress helped him fend off Maul and Savage. Something that would've made Ahsoka's partnership with Ventress less of a "gotcha!" moment in the walkabout arc.

A friend of mine proposed the following placement for SoD in relation to the rest of the Legacy and S7 content. I've yet to give it serious thought but on first glance it looks plausible:

Spoiler

- The Crystal Crisis on Utapau arc
- The first half of “Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir” (“The Enemy of My Enemy” and “A Tale of Two Apprentices”), in order to show Fife at Maul’s side, which may be at the orders of the Pyke’s new leader, Marg Krim to join Maul at his side
- The Ahsoka in the Underworld arc (so Bo-Katan and her Mandalore Resistance can inform the Jedi (specifically Mace Windu) and/or the Republic of Maul and Almec’s continued alliance with the criminal underworld in the events of what comes next
- The second half of Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir (“The Proxy War” and “Showdown on Dathomir”), to show the destruction of the alliance of the Shadow Collective, which includes Maul and his Mandalorian army, the Pyke Syndicate and the Black Sun
- Dark Disciple (which shows Marg Krim’s fate at the hands of the Black Sun’s fleet)
- The finished version of Bad Batch arc (since the new scenes with slightly pregnant Padme and the mention that the Battle of Anaxes is part of the Outer Rim Sieges implies this arc takes place closer to the events of Revenge of the Sith)
- Finally, The Siege of Mandalore (since it’s set at the same time as and even past the events of “Revenge of the Sith” and Order 66)

 

This made me think this episode is going to play very differently for folks who've read Son of Dathomir than it will for those who've only watched the show.

If you've only watched the show then Maul is not "free" on Mandalore, he's Palpatine's puppet on Mandalore.

 

I have not read Son of Dathomir. In my anger when TCW was canceled. It's one of those I acquired but always put off. When I got over that I just never went back to read it. Given all the division in fans this season I've decided to go back and read it after the season ends. To provide an example of how this plays to someone who has not read it. My interpretation is Maul was either allowed to escaped or freed. If he's a puppet, he's no more so than everyone else getting played in Palpatine's web of deception. Palpatine is the ultimate mastermind of all and seems to work out how to turn almost any situation into his advantage. I can see him deciding to let Maul go back to Mandalore and go on scheming even if Maul is still plotting against him just because he makes a great distraction for the Jedi. He might even think Maul will throw off the Jedi who by ROTS are wising up.

 

By that token then Ventress is still alive during all of this too then,lol. SOD is canon, people should of read it if they claim to follow TCW, same with Dark Disciple. Sucks that that they were released in comic and novel/audio book format but yeah its canon and important.

Dave seems to have only made this final season series mainly about Ahsoka, its more an "Ahsoka lives" than "Clone Wars saved". Probably to also springboard Ahsoka into either a live action or animated series after this.

 

Honestly, I figure given TCW's past track record SoD may get reconned or contradicted. Reading it now just gets me wrapped up in what gets messed up from the comic and will compromise my lame filter. Ventress is not a player in either of these arcs, she actually fulfilled her purpose narratively speaking in Ahsoka's Fugitive arc as an example of a failed and abandoned Padawan to accuse Anakin of abandoning his own. If Ventress and Bane were alive they would have popped up in Rebels like everyone else and their mom from TCW. But who knows.

Filoni because of the truncated episode count has chosen to focus on the three most important story threads leftover Ahsoka, Rex/ Clones/ Order 66, and Maul/ Mandalore. I know the feeling of realizing this is all Ahsoka's story before anyone else because I would like to see my man Rex get a chance to be a master tactician in the next arc and see how he squares up to a mastermind like Maul mentally of course but that's not going to happen. I'm sure Ahsoka and to an extent Bo-Katan will do all the mental gymnastics in SoM.

Give it a chance. If it didn't already happen Matt Michnovitz already tweeted the events of SoD will be referenced. He is listed as the writer for the planned version of SoM. I'm really hoping he'll have done work on the next arc with Dave.

 

I felt like I was watching more plot and less character development in this episode than the last one. But the plot was nonsense, and the character development was dull clichés.

 

To be clear I mean he's a puppet in that the last words we heard Palpatine say to Maul after Palpatine wrecked Maul in S5 were that he might still have a job for him, or words to that effect. So, like Dooku and Mas Amedda, Maul would be seen as distinct from everyone else getting played in Palpatine's web of deception in that he'd be seen as a Palpatine underling.

So the assumption would be that Maul is still running Mandalore, but at this point he's taking orders from Palpatine to do so.