Full Series The Clone Wars 7.09 - Old Friends Not Forgotten - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Oops.

I have a feeling we don’t see anything on Coruscant

I want this to tie together everything though.

>classic lucasfilm logo
>microseries
>rebels characters
>mention of saw gerrerra which might as well be Rogue One
>imagery copying Luke’s last stand in Last Jedi

I really wouldn’t be surprised if we got some good Mandalorian backstory here

 

The opening scene also mirrors well with the very beginning of the series.

 

Oh boy, that was amazing. When we got the main Star Wars theme in the opening I knew we were in for a treat.

So many great things here and tie-ins galore. They packed a lot into that episode, yet it didn’t feel rushed. And some great JW music cues!

Best Clone Wars episode ever. This demonstrates how amazing a future Disney plus Clone Wars feature could be. I’d love to see Dark Disciple and Son of Dathomir done to this quality!

 

Some people believe Moff Gideon was also present at this stage as he references the Seige directly in dialogue. I wouldn't put it as likely, but even he might show up.

 

I think the rest of this season is now revealed for what it truly was: an appetizer. This is the main course. And an already outstanding one at that. We're approaching film quality animation here with excellent camera work, depth of field, incredibly fluid animation, excellent particle effects. I thought the first part of this season was visually stunning, but this one episode basically blew it right out of the water. My God, the volumetric lighting going through the fog as kenobi's lightsaber slices through it. Am I in Star Wars heaven?

And not only was is a visual treat, but the story hit every beat it needed to for this part. Some incredible acting and dialog from the entire cast, mixing heartfelt moments with action and comedy masterfully.

If the next three episodes are at all like this one was, we are in for a truly wild ride that may end up being the best chunk of Star Wars content we've had in years. And that's a high bar considering all the stuff I've loved from the Disney era.

 

I'm genuinely disappointed that this episode ended.

 

Some further thoughts on where we’re going.

1. The story progressed a lot quicker than I imagined.... we’ve basically already reached what I thought would be the final episode. I have no idea where the other episodes are going to take us.

2. IMO the likelihood of us seeing scenes from ROTS intercut has increased.... I can’t imagine they would waste that beautiful and expensive animation just for the story reel.

3. They clearly now have the setup to produce movie-quality animation, dare we dream about further Clone Wars animated features? Son of Dathomir and Dark Disciple anyone? And I would absolutely LOVE them to go back and give us a feature from the start of the Clone Wars. #clonewarsprequel

 

It doesn't work like that. Animation of this quality is ridiculously expensive in terms of time, manpower, processing power, etc. We're talking near movie quality animation. It isn't as simple as "Well we got the mocap suits and workstations, might as well start making movie quality animation just cause".

 

So do we just ignore that the last arc happened, because Ahsoka doesn't show much concern for Trace and Rafa back on Coruscant. We do? Ok.

 

Or, the timeline of this anthology show isn't strictly happening immediately one after the other? If so, we're also gonna have to ignore how Anakin and Obi-Wan managed to start and finish a planetary siege in like a few days plus travel time.

 

I’m aware of that. I was just saying that they have the setup to do it. What a shame that they wasted all
that time and money on the last 2 arcs. Son of Dathomir was a glaring omission.

 

That was... an incredible ride.

Tons of nostalgia, hat tips, a little meta at times, but tons to unpack and ends of a hell of a cliffhanger.

- The 1977-vintage Lucasfilm Ltd logo, married with Ahsoka's theme (which may be thrilling or ominous depending on what camp you're in.)

- A 30 minute runtime. Let's hope this continues.

- The opening battle on Yerbana feels like a callback to Christophsis. In a nice bit of role reversal, Anakin plays the fake "negotiator" this time. And yet, everyone's fundamentally in character. Anakin is the improviser, and remembers the needs of the people. Obi-Wan is more cautious, prudent.

- LOL, Ahsoka contacting Anakin on a private signal coded "Fulcrum?" Really?

- The timeskip debates will continue forever but Ahsoka does seem older now. Her voice sounds much more like Fulcrum than it did last week. It's only in the personal moments with Anakin or Rex that the old teenager surfaces with her wry faces and cocky "Beat ya"'s.

- The dynamic between Anakin and Ahsoka was just the right mix of good ol' times and a recognition that things have changed. Anakin just wants to reconnect with Ahsoka before anything, but Ahsoka puts business first. Her tensions with the Jedi Order are far from over and Anakin seems a bit hurt by the distance that now exists between them.

- Assuming this is Artoo's last appearance in the show, isn't it nice that he began TCW with a caress and he ended with one?

- Glad to see that the fact that the Jedi would be intruding into the affairs of a neutral planet hasn't been forgotten. And yet, the highlight of that was Bo-Katan sneerings "So what's another war?" There's a flash of recognition on Kenobi's face that that's all the Jedi seem to be doing lately. Entangling in wars.

- It seems it was Ahsoka's idea to contact Anakin, not Bo-Katan's?

- The interplay between Ahsoka and Rex was... to the point as it always seems to be with them. It was good to see Ahsoka rejecting titles like "Commander", underscoring her discomfort with the way the Jedi are entangled with the military, and the way Ahsoka has now come to a point where she acts like a Jedi but rejects the title and status. And Rex, of course, insists on "Commander" anyway. That's Rex, for you.

- The unexpected highlight of this episode was the standoff between Ahsoka and Obi-Wan. Since Ahsoka apparently didn't even talk to the Council beforehand, Obi-Wan becoms the Council proxy as he so often is. It was great to see her finally unload. Neither one is completely in the right. It's true that a direct attack on Coruscant and its people is not something the Jedi can ignore. But Ahsoka also homes in on the fact that it's the Chancellor and the Republic that always seems to come first for the Order over the people of the galaxy and this top-heavy approach is driving a wedge between the Jedi and the people. Obi-Wan always looks at the big picture. Ahsoka knows she should but she can't help who she is. She can't ignore the common folks or concepts like personal loyalty. There's definitely some resentment over her treatment during the Fugitive arc boiling over. I still hope there's one last exchange between her and Yoda before this is all done. We know there's more holos between them and Mandalore.

- Obi-Wan's parting joke reminds us that Ahsoka and Maul share more in common than just being former apprentices that were betrayed by their Orders. They both refuse to stay dead.

- Did Obi-Wan ever deny a belief in luck during TCW? I can't remember. But it appears Ahsoka's last words to Anakin are now "Anakin... good luck." Definitely not-Jedi without going overboard.

- It's both strange and unsettling to see Ahsoka seemingly admiring Bo-Katan for being such a contrast from her sister. Yes, Bo-Katan is a woman of initiative and adaptation compared to Satine who refuses to budge from the peace-all-at-costs dogma and ended up failing her people as a result. But she's still a ruthless former terrorist and Ahsoka and Satine were on friendly terms. Even after all these years, Ahsoka is not entirely predictable, and I like that.

- After last week's episode guide, I didn't expect Ursa Wren to show up again. More fun connections.

- And there still are so many other great moments that I'm not touching on simply because we've known them through trailers and other media. Man, what it would have been like to see this "blind" without any pre-knowledge. It would have been overwhelming.

- My one negative is the overuse of William's themes, especially the OT themes. This is still the prequel era, after all.

 

But the way you're saying this tells me that you don't really understand. It's not all about equipment. The workstations and servers and such were things they likely already had or could be bought for relatively cheap. Do you think Disney went out and made a new Mocap stage just for this? No, they used one on hand or possibly rented a stage out for them to use. That isn't where all the money goes. It goes to the people actually working on it. It takes a LOT of people to make something look this good, and it takes a very long time. There were doing some stuff in this past episode that I have never in my life seen in TV animation. And that shows an incredible time commitment. I guarantee that the vast majority of the budget from this season went into these four episodes. And it's entirely non-viable to put that same kind of dough into a reoccurring project. It's honestly probably better to think of this last arc as a feature film split into four parts instead of a four part arc of a TV show.

This may just be me ranting, but I'm kind of sick and tired of people misunderstanding animation and pining for something we're never gonna get instead of talking about how great the things we are currently getting are. You didn't like the first few episodes? Great, fine, but acting like it's some equivalence thing where Son of Dathomir was unjustly maligned or whatever is ridiculous.

 

Whatever

 

So I finally got what I have been waiting for... I don't even know how many years. A confrontation between Ahsoka and Obi-Wan representing the Council.

Well this was... Better than I feared and worse than I hoped. I feared there would be nothing, and I was hoping for something longer, maybe more intense. What we have was enough and settles what IMO needed to be settled.

The essential part is that Ahsoka said out loud she lost her faith in the Jedi, which finally gives a solid explanation for her rebuking the Council. Before that the only official explanation we had was "how can I trust myself" and that was just... Bad. She's not overly aggressive with Obi-Wan but doesn't hesitate to point the fact that the Jedi are focusing on some of their duties too much at the expense of others.
Obi-Wan is just being his we-have-to-do-what-the-Council-says self but he doesn't come out stupid or out of character : he still believes the Council knows better. In some areas they might, but obviously not everywhere.
In their dialogue, something very crucial was hinted at : the Chancellor doesn't represent the people, at least not in Ahsoka's mind (and probably in a lot of other minds as well). Helping the Chancellor and by extension the Senate does not mean helping the people.
I don't know why, but the exchange "That's not fair" -"I'm not trying to be" felt very satisfying. I suppose that's Ahsoka's way of saying "I don't mind being unfair with you. I don't mind talking to you in a way that you won't like. The way I speak and look at you has changed, deal with it."
Regardless, I think it was a nice touch that Ahsoka asked for Obi-Wan's approval before accepting Anakin's gift, as if the was extending an olive branch. In her shoes I personally could not have cared less how he felt about it but Ahsoka is more forgiving than I am, and that's all to her credit.

About everything else. Well I agree with what's been said. Great visuals, animations, etc.
The part about Ahsoka using the name Fulcrum (or is that the name of the frequency she uses?).... Meh... I suppose we have to believe Darth Vader will never learn that one of the top Rebel operative calls themselves Fulcrum then.
And the fact is : they both use a secret frequency that Vader could have used to reach her and set a trap for her after Order 66 but for some reason he won't?

Also : the fight with Maul hasn't started but the setting confirms that what's written in the Ahsoka book can be forgotten as far as the duel is concerned. The whole re-writing canon tradition is still going strong and I don't imagine it will ever stop. Stories are fluid. As the Assassins say : "Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

 

The opening being a literal mirror of the original TCW movie was a nice touch.

It's been such a fun trip and I'm glad we're ending on a high note.

 

Wonder why lightsabers only ever seem to target blasters nowadays, because this is a far cry from the Ahsoka who decapitated half a dozen people without flinching

 

To me, she makes herself look kind of unsympathetic. Coruscant is under attack. She's like asking for an army to go take out a crime Lord during the battle of the bulge, and Obi Wan is run ragged fighting on world after world.

These people Ashoka's teamed up with are murderers, and notorious Jedi-haters. They must be rubbing off on Ashoka.

 

I can't believe I didn't spot this myself. The way Ahsoka steps off the ship to meet Anakin and Obi-Wan mirrors and contrasts the way she was introduced in the TCW movie. Artoo never changes. He does the same whistle of greeting. But everything else has flipped. The first time, Ahsoka was so eager to begin her training under the Chosen One while Anakin was "Who the hell are you?" Now, 12 years later, Anakin looks like he can't wait to grab her and spin her around while Ahsoka is "Save the balloons for later. We've got serious work to do." Ahsoka was Yoda's messenger in 2008. Now she's acting as an ambassador for the Mandalorians. A sect that once warred with the Jedi.

 

Really enjoyed that. I was pretty uninterested in the Bad Batch arc as we'd already had it in Legacy, then with the Underworld one I was distracted by constantly thinking about how it may have originally played out, treating it as more of a puzzle than a story (will have to rewatch soon), but this was a joy. I eagerly await the next part.

 

Most of the episode was pretty meh. I didnt like the opening battle if you can call it that, it was silly and Anakin was pretty goofy portrayed like he's bored and too good for anything the script can throw at him. Everything was far too bum-rushed. It got better as it progressed but its still rushed. They seem to have contradicted Fulcrum being an invention of Bail and Ahsoka post Order 66/Rebellion era, to now its something that Anakin(and Republic military)knew about but Vader and the Empire didnt,lol.

Kenobi's character portrayal is just strange & cringy from The Lawless to Son of Dathomir to now this.

 

Obi Wan, right after hearing that Coruscant has been attacked: "It's the pivotal battle of the Clone Wars"

Clearly Obi Wan has seen the opening crawl for Episode 3, but do they call it "Clone Wars" right in front of the clones?

 

They probably forgot the opening crawl of ROTS:

War! The Republic is crumbling under attacks by the ruthless Sith Lord, Count Dooku. There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere.
In a stunning move, the fiendish droid leader, General Grievous, has swept into the Republic capital and kidnapped Chancellor Palpatine, leader of the Galactic Senate.
As the Separatist Droid Army attempts to flee the besieged capital with their valuable hostage, two Jedi Knights lead a desperate mission to rescue the captive Chancellor....

 

He's not even right about its being the "pivotal battle." It was a diversion for a deeper plot. The real battle was the one happening right under the Jedi's noses: Palpatine's slow corruption of Anakin, the Jedi and the Republic.

As an aside, I noticed on my third watch that Dave Filoni is credited as the sole writer for this episode.