Full Series The Clone Wars 7.11 - Shattered - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

It's true, Yoda definitely had help. Ahsoka got help from the droids and Maul. Obi-Wan is really the most lucky- he was able to sneak past all his clones and get to a ship without getting shot down. Yoda at least had allies in the wookiees to cover his escape. And yeah, it did seem like Gree got the message late. You'd think he'd be the first. But even then, Yoda feels Mace's death and Anakin's turn first- as does Ahsoka. Then Order 66 hits and he gets it full blast. After that, there was no way Gree was going to surprise him. Thought it does beg the question of what was going through Yoda's mind right after sensing the death but before the order was given to Gree.

 

I think Shattered is unequivocally the best.

 

Crackpot theory : what if Yoda being the last was intentional on Sidious' part ? Sadistic as he is, I wouldn't put it past him to only kill Yoda after he's been made to suffer through the death of all his comrades.

 

I think its the best episode of the series. and i think it's easily thee best SW content we've gotten since ROTJ. Just my opinion.

 

I also think it’s the best in the series, but I’ll stop short of your following statement. Rogue One and at least six episodes of the Mandalorian are better, IMO, but that’s no slight as those represent my favorite Star Wars content across the board! Shattered is animation at its height. Second only, in my estimation, to Miyazaki’s best work.

 

I personally could not compare 20-25 minute episodes of an animated show, to 30-35 minute episodes of a live action show, to 2 hour movies. I can compare how I felt watching certain scenes, and I can compare storylines that I like better, but content as a total, nah.

There is a level of grandeur in the 6 classic GL movies that I would not be able to find in any animated or live action show.

But there have been at least 3-4 moments in Rebels, Clone Wars and Mandalorian that are in my favorite 10 Star Wars moments ever (the rest are in the 6 classics and Rogue One).

The moment when the clones attack Ahsoka and the ROTS soundtrack starts playing pompously in Shattered, is one of them.

Another one is Kanan's death. Which ranks high. Very high.

 

Fair enough. Simply put, I compare due to what I like. If I like a show with one season of 30 minute episodes better than a trilogy of films, I just...do.

 

Sounds very Sheev like to me.

Could also just be that due to different distances from Coruscant, it took the signal more time to reach planets that were further.

 

Sheev didn't even seem that disturbed that Yoda survived. I think he enjoyed the chance to rub it in the little green guy's face.

 

It seems he also didn't really care that Yoda survived their duel and escaped Coruscant. We haven't had any story so far that would show that Sidious was actively searching for Yoda all those years.

I think the moment Jedi stopped being relevant as an organised Order with political influence, Sidious no longer cared about few Jedi surviving here and there, even if some of them were members of the Jedi Council, including Yoda and Obi-Wan.

 

In the Novelization, he says to the clones "If you can't find him, blow up the building," but maybe he just wanted to blow up the building.

I think after the events of ep3, after Vader had hunted many more down and power was secure, Palpatine no longer cared about survivors.

 

Well if he didn't view them as a threat, then I would say Sidious is a fool. After all, those Jedi trained Luke and Luke brought down his empire. But he view them as threats.

He commanded his men to double their search, he didn't search Yoda personally, because he sensed Lord Vader was in danger and he needed to go to mustafar. He even said they could blow up the senate building if they have too.

Sidious: ''Are you certain?''
- ''This is an opportunity we can not let pass. Skywalker's apprentice could lead us to other lost Jedi.''

In fact, Sidious created the Inquisitorius organization right after Episode III, so they could find and hunt down the Jedi that survived Order 66.

Sidious: "The Inquisitorius. A project of mine, long planned. Slaves to the light side once, now awake. Hunters, one and all."
Vader: "What do they hunt?"
Sidious: "Why, Jedi, of course. You and the Inquisitors must find these Jedi, Lord Vader. And you must destroy them all. For in truth, there is no greater threat to our Empire."
―Darth Vader - 006 The Chosen One (2017)

 

This makes it even stranger that Yoda wasn't the first one Sidious executed the order on. That, and he was clearly nervous about fighting him in ROTS.

 

Yeah, Sidious literally tried to bolt for the door, the minute Yoda sent him toppling in his chair.

It's only because Yoda literally blocked the door and asked him "If so powerful you are, why leave?"

Heck, if you look at it, Palpatine might even have been prepared to die (likely cause of the clones) "You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!" almost sounds like "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" doesn't it?

So that might explain why he fled to rescue Vader-he had put a lot of his eggs in that one basket. I mean that suit probably wasn't cheap, but he had a significant investment in Anakin (13 years of manipulation and planning).

Also, if you want to kill the jedi, you start with Yoda. You don't save him for last. Catching him offguard first of all, but also the likely shock of it would debilitate other jedi and allow for a quicker kill for some. True, some like Jaro might still get the warning and escape, but I just think Yoda's transmission was delayed based on how far Kashyyyk was. And if you are Palpatine, you send Yoda as far from Coruscant as possible. Interesting to note though that Kashyyyk is mid rim and Felucia is outer rim so technically Aayla got the message first. Same with Utapau. Makes me wonder if Sidious started with the Outer Rim, where jedi were less likely to get assistance and then worked his way back to the mid, inner and core worlds.

 

loved Mando. But it never reaches the apex emotional highs of Shattered. Not even close. Just my opinion. Rogue One is the best SW movie from Disney. but it also doesnt do anything on the level of Shattered. But i like all that you mentioned so i understand whether i disagree or not.

 

Isn't Kashyyyk Mid Rim?

 

Well, Rex learned well from Ahsoka and Mace Windu.

 

Dave kinda forgot to (re)watch Rebels, lol

What makes matters worse was that Sidious bolted for the exit also during their first confrontation on Coruscant in the works hideout:



TCW also already showed that Sidious almost got killed by Yoda during their 1st duel back during their Force confrontation in Season 6. Maybe that explains his idiotic strategy when fighting Yoda in ROTS?! Sith are deceptive and tricky, but doesn't make much sense regardless, both times its just the filmakers showing that Sidious is cowardly and evil and bad guys lose in Star Wars. Dooku even fought Yoda better than Sidious. While Anakin makes short work of Dooku, similar to ROTS, Sidious makes short work of Anakin, who passes out during electrocution( as so often he did). Sidious they do not have using his second lightsaber and Yoda is the better duelist. Sidious' Force lightning is ineffective against Yoda and it almost kills him when that momentum is reversed against him then he was sent off the ledge. He tries the same thing in ROTS, its silly, never mind that he cannot turn off his Lightning in TROS and it actually reversed again and melts him and blows him up that time that time around - he never learns I guess.

Also they toned down Sidious' fighting style and speed for the Yoda confrontation as compared to "The Lawless" where none of it makes any sense. Even in the "The Lawless" Sdious had to put in all his effort and there was the possibility of defeat there too when he fought Maul and Savage and Maul. Watching Maul on TCW and now Park's Maul this season, they simply were not master and apprentice in terms of fighting. Maul's fighting is superior and actually more than cgi enhanced mechanics, there is actually skill present.

Its just whenever the plot calls for a winner during this duels. Watching ROTS, Sidious fighting style and stamina was very weak and nothing really like TCW's. In that movie despite his early surprise attack on the sloppy Jedi in the confined space he never could get an advantage again on his own and was on the defensive and always near death. Windu really dominated him, I could never see Sidious defeating Jinn as both Jedi fought alike and of similar age & build.


Hard to believe Yoda could not recognize Palpatine despite being inches away from his face, the never invesgated "the works" and they never really took the threat of Sidious all that seriously until the Maul had a chat with Ahsoka this season. This Season also skipped over Dark Disiple, and seem to be using more the AOTC film as the last mention of Sidious.


After watching TROS for the first time, I thought that if Sidious was gonna body jump which he can do when he wants,lol, he would've had Maul managed killed him in "The Lawless" or Maul or Talzin in SOD or had Mace Windu delivered the killing stroke successfully and his gambling bid with Anakin failed there and then in ROTS. The body jumping stuff creates problems to a good degree. Even in Rey killing him in TROS, he could've jumped then too, in the novel they discuss this possibility of Palpatine surviving again.

Sidious and the spirit thrusting into a clone technique goes back to Plagueis really. Plagueis was caught off guard thats why he did not return, but Sidious always feared that the Force would strike back at him after killing his master Plagueis in his sleep in betrayal. Sidious would've inherited the Sith Eternal, but they revered all the Sith, past and present, their loyalty was to the Sith as a whole. But Sidious had help, was not like he acted alone. The Sith and Sith Eternal were involved in seeking immortality and using genetic science and alchemy for generations. Its pretty deep stuff and we do not know how deep.

I think its obvious that Sidious salvaged Vader was also because of his failure with Maul. Maul survived and came back stronger and determined and Maul remains a threat all the way into Rebels. We also know that Sidious had the Grand Inquisitor in play and the Inquisitors in training, was not like he would be left without a pool to which to select another Sith Apprentice candidate or was left unguarded. Vader was always on hollowed ground, since Sidious betrays everyone eventually and he wants to be the only one ruling. On top of that he had Dr Cylo and his experiments where he would create possible apprentice potentials and his experiments in cloning also are similar to the clone Emperor returning - Cylo died so many times. Plus we don't know how long Snoke has been around, but we do know Snoke claimed he was alive during the Republic era. So its reasonable to assume Sidious had this Dark Side adept in play before Vader, or even multiples were activated at various times.

Maul would've been aware of the Sith Eternal that is now introduced in TROS, so curious if this is explored. Maul even has his own shadowy network and secret society organization. Lots of interesting potential storylines with Maul and Ahsoka.

 

Characters don’t just regurgitate facts. They obfuscate, interpret, contextualize, justify, selectively remember, forget, lie.

 

This episode and the next one resulted in the creation of a new headcanon for me : Jedi, even the ones absurdly powerful in the Force like Yoda, keep and use their lightsabers because it grounds them, keeps them somewhat humble by having them rely on a tool like so many other people in the galaxy. Because what does Maul do once he's been denied his "fighting chance" ? Assert his inherent superiority over the clones by walking through them as if they weren't even there and destroy the massive ship from the inside. And what does Sidious do once Yoda's been defeated and he's convinced that there is no one left capable of challenging him ? He leaves the saber aside and starts to completely indulge his sense of superiority and his sadism through exclusive use of Force Lightning, which isn't a weapon but a torture implement.

 

I have to hand it to Filoni and crew, they did an amazing job with the Order 66 sequence. The way Ahsoka senses Anakin's turmoil, the way she hears Mace, Palpatine and Anakin arguing.

That moment that she hears Sheev shout in triumph:



And even as she's reeling from sensing that horrific moment, Rex is receiving his final order in the next room.



The use of Anakin's Dark Deeds in that moment is so perfect. It tells us in that moment that life as Ahsoka knew it is now over. Forever.

 

Those last four episodes of Clone Wars are so much better than ROTS, that it’s almost embarrassing.