Full Series The Clone Wars and the First World War Thread

Here is something which may divert our conversations slightly. Let?s outline the very apparent and distinctive parallels between the Clone Wars and the First World War. Obviously many can be seen when it is placed with the Galactic Civil War (as an obvious parallel to the Second World War), however lets focus on the Clone Wars being a clear juxtaposition to World War I.

End of the Old Order: The Clone Wars, like the First World War, both represent a political system (Ancien Regime) which has outlived its usefulness, is dilapidated and is inevitably on the verge of complete implosion. For TCW this is obviously the political and economic union known as the Galactic Republic which has gone too long without reform and is now inevitably awaiting a conflict. In regards to WW1 the political order of Empire?s has reached a tipping point and, especially without Queen Victoria as a unifying figure, is inevitably about to spill over into conflict.

Aristocrats: It is noticeably that, like the Pre-World War 1 and World War 1 era, TCW and its prior period is dominated by aristocrats with key perpetrators for the war being rather prominent aristocrats. This can be seen by Dooku (an parallel to the Kaiser) and Poggle the Lesser (a parallel to the Ottoman Sultan), with the latter having his ?Empire? smashed and near collapse on several occasions. Likewise on the other side of the conflict you have people like the Monarchy of Naboo, Monarchy of Alderran, Monarchy of Toydaria and ?Monarchy? of Mandalore.

Military Blocs: In response to this increasing air of tension the unity of the Old Order inevitably splits in two. For TCW this can be seen in Republic loyalists nations and the Confederacy of Independent Systems which once created are in a constant ?stand off? with the inevitably war imminent. For the First World War this is obviously seen in the split of unity following the death of Queen Victoria and the placement of the states of Europe into two very distinctive military units; the Entente Powers (Allies) and the Central Powers each awaiting the spark that sets of the building tensions into all out war.

Great War: When war eventually arises, over a relatively insignificant event (invasion of Serbia, rescue of Republic ?diplomats?) the spark ignites a fire storm inevitably igniting the most widespread and devastating conflict that had ever been seen; a Great War had begun. Each side blames one another for the igniting of hostilities and neither is willing to back down.

Stalemate: Once the war ignites, following obvious initial advances, it bogs down into a stalemate (?This stalemate in the war has become unacceptable?) with neither side giving or gaining any significant amounts of ground.

The Final Offensive: Desperate and with defeat likely inevitable (America joins the War, and Outer Rim Sieges) the regime seeking to create a ?New Order? (Central Powers and Confederacy) throw all their eggs into one basket and decide to bring a swift end to the war before the enemy can end it on their terms. During the First World War this can be seen in the Ludendorff Offensive which was aimed at Paris with the intent of capturing the enemy capital and in turn bring a swift end to the war. During TCW this can be seen in Grievous? and Dooku?s strike against Coruscant in an attempt to capture the Chancellor through which a Republic collapse would be inevitable. Both strikes fail however and are counteracted with the Hundred Days Offensive and the Outer Rim Sieges respectfully.

The End of the Leader: Following the failed offensive both the Confederacy and Germany loose their head of state in the Kaiser and Dooku. This inevitably leaves them instable, rudderless and looking for peace (?But Lord Sidious promised us peace?).

Unresolved Conflict: The end of the war evidently swings towards the Republic and the Entente Powers in either conflict with the defeat of their enemies inevitable. However with their enemies beaten yet not crushed an end to the war is

 

Uh, I think you covered them all there Phil.

 

That was a very interesting (and comprehensive) analysis there. Although history is a particular interest of mine, I'm really not sure if I can add very much of anything substantive.

I might question the analogy on the stalemate, however. I understand that for most of the Clone Wars neither side had any particular, decisive advantage or momentum, and it is even referred to by numerous participants (such as Dooku and even Palpatine, I believe, in the Tartakovsky series) in such terms. However (and this may be superficial), I find the static nature of World War I to be one of its defining characteristics. As I recall, through the lion's share of the war, the western front only varied a few miles in either direction, while troops were used as cannon fodder in tactics that were not suited to the new technologies of the 20th Century. The Clone Wars strike me as much more fluid and dynamic, possibly due to the nature of space combat. It's a minor quibble, and hey - it's not exactly "WWI in space", so it's supposed to be different in certain ways, huh?

There also seems to be generous helping of World War II thrown in, however; (I'm pretty sure Lucas is a bit of a WWII buff himself) from a lot of stylistic choices, like the 1940's style newsreel that begins each episode, to specific incidents like the Malevolence/Bismarck. Just an observation.

 

Military Tactics

While the visual representation of the battles is more closely related to World War 2 style fighting, this can also apply to World War 1

Technology has advanced to a point where combat hardware is outpacing military combat tactics. Armies still fight in massed infantry rushes, often with little armor support (Battle of Geonosis). As time moves on, new technology and weapons are implemented (Battles on Mygeeto, Kashyyyk, ETC).

The evolution of combat from the early infantry charges against machine guns to combined arms combat with air support and armor support being used cohesively can be seen.

 

I don't think your point of calling them the First Great War and Second Great War would be correct, even if you don't count the EU (cause then it would be like the Fifth and Sixth Great War)

They really were two different type of wars, one was a war for independence and planet grab, the other was a civil war to over throw the current government and replace it with the 'previous' structure. I really don't see the two as comparable where WW1 and WW2 where pretty much the same thing in terms of thought, just expand what you already had (yes I know I just simplified that by a ton).

Otherwise good comparisons.

Side note: I think with George really being a WW2 buff relates mostly to the battle styles we see, Christopsis ambushes in cities, Landing at point Rain is close to d-day, Ryloth was more of germany vs the soviets with the twileks being the soviets. Blue-shadow virus being the various chemicals/experiments taking place. Of course the use of more deadly forces. Actually we have not had a lot of land battles have we?

Another idea: Mandalore representing Japan. The time line isn't going to match up too good but just think about this. Both had proud warrior classes that were eventually both repressed. However out of these rose extreme ideas that would eventually take over their governments and try to restore the old ways in the image they thought it should be.

 

Yeah, the CW and GCW were two completely different wars. GCW makeup is closer to Vietnam then World War II IMO.

 

well Vietnam inspired GL but it's still very far away from that- GCW has WW2 a lot as well- imperials are even called "spacenazis" and they used actual warfilms from world wars to create battles to ANH.... as Finn it's interesting claim that battle of Hoth would be based loosely on Winter War- well there is certain similarity- small number of infantry tries to fight against overpowering enemy in harsh winter conditions- and way tankless Finns used to destroy huge frightening Soviet tanks was usually sticking a log between tracks and throwing explosive inside- towcables and Luke taking down At-At was pretty much same...

 

Yeah, but the concept is closer to Vietnam IMO. The large and powerful army(The Empire), that is having problems with a smaller, and more mobile force(Rebels), who's strengths are guerrilla tactics and hit and runs. Granted, WWII had guerrilla warfare(mainly in Asia), but it was more common in the Vietnam war.

 

Yeah, like you said I put this down to the nature of space combat in contrast to the nature of ?terrestrial? warfare. I think the key word here is ?stalemate?; in WW1 the lines didn?t really shift during the primary parts of the war, whilst in TCW the lines shift however neither really makes any strategically ground with gains and losses for either side (i.e. one fraction takes a key world and the other takes another). Thus none are really gaining an upper hand. In this way they are both stalemates... you can also seen that certain worlds like Felucia are contested and change hands often during the war... showing that the lines are constantly flexing with no real breakthrough.

Yeah, there certainly are a lot of WWII references. However I think from a in-universe standpoint when looking at later conflicts in relation to TCW it more closely fits WW1.

This is certainly a very good point I had not considered. You really do see the progress from a battle from a bygone era (Napoleonic-type battle formations) into the cusp of modern warfare as seen in Mygeeto and Kashyyyk, etc).

Firstly this depends greatly on what you define as a ?Great War?. Personally I think of them as wars fought on scales not yet seen and which are incomparable to previous conflicts. Both TCW and the GCW are these types of conflicts (disregarding the EU and seeing what is implied in the Saga Proper) which have not been seen before, involving the entire galaxy, shifting systems and an overhaul of the Galactic Order. I like to view the war which occurred 1000 y

 

I'm very ignorant when it comes to WWI, but I like this thread a lot.

 

^^"Look at the size of that thing!"

EDIT: LOL Tarkas you were faster

That's a one long comment..... yeah you are probably right even though i have no energy to read and understand that all... and people say i send long comments sorry i don't think i added anything to discussion but i had to comment that manly sized wall of text - either you really know what you are talking about or then you just don't- i try to read that some day before my history-exam......but anyway good to see someone else analyses this stuff thoroughly instead of just saying "it's awsum" or "it sucks"