Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 113: Jedi Crash Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

You talk like you know that for a fact, but you presumably don't.

It's likely that she got the job because of the family connection, yes. But we don't know it for fact.

Just to be clear, if the episode doesn't explore the idea I mentioned, I'm not going to be disappointed. It is indeed a 22-minute action-adventure cartoon, and I've gone in with that in mind for every episode. And I haven't been disappointed once.

 

Nepotism is a grand Hollywood tradition, right alongside seducing wannabe starlets after screentests. Nepotism's worked so well for Hollywood that the Detroit Lions copied it....with different results.

In all seriousness, I don't think that there's anything wrong with some fan skepticism, both because of her youth (I didn't know she was only 20) as well as her relation to GL.

Having said that, I think we can all agree that many of the writers (both of the shows and the EU) probably get work based on attributes other than the merits of their skills - you can bet that there are lots of friends-of-friends and producer's-sons, on LFL's payroll. So if the criticism of Katie Lucas goes overboard, I'm sure that some fans here can rattle off a Yellow Pages-sized list of people who prove that Lucasfilm's writing department isn't the meritocracy we might wish it'd be.

Anyway, even though Katie Lucas has the sole writer's credit, I get the impression that CW episodes result from an authorial stew, just as most pop culture products do. For instance, in the mini-doc about 'Lair of Grievous', we can see Lucas himself and several other people dropping ideas. And the writer for 'Bombad Jedi' wrote, write here at TFN, that he had lots of people providing input to his episode. So it's not as though Katie Lucas - or any of the writers - are holed up in a hermitage and then emerge with a a magical scroll saying, "So it is written, so it shall be done!"

 

I am not one to jump to conclusions, but I'm also not afraid to make assumptions when all the factors are so clearly laid out. It's not like we are making wild accusations here. Do you honestly think that someone with her scriptwriting credentials and her age, no matter how naturally gifted they are, would get to pen an entire first season Clone Wars episode if they didn't have such a strong inside connection as she does?

Just so no one misinterprets me, I have NOTHING against Katie, NOR against the fact that she penned a few episodes. As long as the episodes are good, I couldn't care less, and I think it's cool to see the Force running strong in the family. But to think that she got the job on her own talents alone, with her ascenendcy having no influence on it, seems quite a bit naive to me.

 

Oh, I agree.

(With the caveat that, having not yet seen the episode, it may be that her talents are so unbelievably amazing that a mail-in script was enough to clinch her a job regardless of who she was or who he did/didn't know. That's unlikely, granted. But it is possible. We shouldn't judge her writing ability until we have something with which to judge it.)

The odds of anyone off the street getting a job like that are pretty low. They're a bit better if person starts freelance, and then gets a full-time position. (Which is what she says happened in her case.) But even then, still pretty low.

It's just that due to my philosophy background it often bugs me when people speak of things as fact when they are just guessing and assuming. It's a quirk of mine.

 

Well, when the probability of something being true is so overwhelming, I feel it's pointless to beat around the bush and not state it clearly. Appealing to your philosophical side, if you really think about it, most of the truths we accept as such are not 100% concrete for us. We always rely on second hand information, assumptions, impressions, predictions, etc. If we go around saying "it seems highly likely that..." before everything we say, it's going to take a long time to say anything.

PS: I am not judging her writing ability (yet), I'm just judging how she got the job. I do hope she's a writing genious, that would be awesome.

 

I think this episode will feel a lot like the last two.
Dooku, GunGan, and Crash all have one thing in common: There's only one writer.
Even Bombad Jedi(say what you will about the episode) had Henry helping out with the story, and that was penned by one of the most well-traveled writers in SW!
The last two seemed to lack the smooth flowing story telling that the others had.

Granted, Cloak of Darkness had only one writer, but that was Paul Dini. You don't need any others if you have Paul Dini.

And guys, please be civilized. You look really silly. Obi-Wan wouldn't approve of all this.


"So uncivilized."

 

Good point. Nepotism is apart of life. JFK did used it, The Lions head coached did it. The really question is she a good writer? And that will be answered tonight.

 

Not to become overly self-referential, but if you're saying that people are piling on the nepotism aspect I want to wholeheartedly disagree. Look at GrySarth's posts: he's qualifying his own arguments and offering so defensive about his own arguments that it borderlines on self-defeating. People are being very careful not to come across as being crude (to a 20 year-old girl we've never met), jealous, or angry at LFL's practices.

We can agree that people should be civilized about it (there I go, qualifying my own arguments!), but I think the nepotism debate is totally legitimate.

(I don't want to travel too far for an analogy, but here in Detroit, our pro football team just went 0-16 and the defense was the absolute worst in modern football history. And the leader of that historically awful defense? He was the head coach's son-in-law. So this is a legitimate point of discussion, especially for Americans, where we have this meritocracy ideal embedded deeply in our culture - what with our mothers telling us we can do anything we dream of and all that.)

So there will definitely be posters here trying to pose as the chivalous men standing up for the young girl, but they're fighting straw-man assailants: nobody here is attacking this young woman (again, we don't even know her, and most of us probably assume she's good-natured and intelligent), we're discussing an interesting and entirely legitimate topic.

 

Agreed. It may be that all I know for 100% certainty is that I am thinking, therefore something exists...me. Everything else would have some level of ambiguity.

So unless we want to use them almost all / all the time, it's going to be a judgment call as to when we use wiggle words.

For me, I don't see the need to use them when talking about basic foundational assumptions (there is a world outside my head, it is the real physical world I'm percieving--I'm not just a brain in a jar or tied into the Matrix, ec.), commonly accepted historical truths that, if false, would require extreme deception and mass delusion (we really did have president named George Washington, the Civil War really happened, etc.), and the like.

But when talking about people's motivations, and events that are happening in the world now, I personally am more likely to use them...especially when not using them would be to cast a dispersion on someone.

Given the way I've heard the showbiz biz works, I figure it's quite likely that the only reason Katie was given a shot at the writing gig (i.e. why someone took the time to read what she wrote and evaluate it) is because she's George's daughter. I've heard that shows like this have so many people wanting to write for them that they typically don't have time to consider every random person's submission.

Not an insult to Katie.

On the other hand, to assume the reason got the gig (as opposed to just getting a shot at it) is because she's Lucas' daughter...

To me that can be insulting, as it could be implying that she doesn't have the talent to have the job, yet has it only because her dad. So I'd use the words.

Now, if by "she got the job" you included and really were talking about the 'audition' phase, I'm right with you. And though I personally still would probably use the wiggle words (force of habit), I'm not irked by a person not using any, given this is her first writing credit we know of, so how else would someone who has no professional experience get his/her script read.

Unless LFL's policy is to read every submission. Which, given what we know of the industry, is unlikely.

 

Wow, 5 pages before the episode even airs! Well done, guys.

I don't think there's any doubts her connections lead to her having this opportunity, but she also said she was initially hired as a freelance writer and after 2 years in on the permanent staff, so she must have some kind of writing chops.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Actually, I would stop watching if they get bad and then maybe try the DVDs and see if they improved and if not, oh well. And I certainly won't buy the iTunes. Only a sad and broken soul would be into something mindlessly and stick with it when they don't even like it anymore. I.E. Heroes fans.

And what are you, the KL apologist? The episode hasn't even aired yet. And don't be hypocritical when you make fun of Jett. Thanks.

 

Um... Jonatan Hale worked on young Indy for years and then he co-wrote AOTC. It's my understanding he gave us the romantic dialogue between Padme and Anakin... so...

I guess we'll see soon enough.

 

Right on the money, DBrennan. I'm trying really hard to make it clear I have NOTHING against KL writing this episode. So far I don't think I've seen a single person on this thread actually having a go at Katie, saying she's a talentless hack who only gets by because of her daddy. No one has said anything to that effect, and yet I've seen a good number of posts assuming that was being said and jumping on the active defense, which only serves to fuel an empty argument.

"Alone" being a key word here. I didn't say she has no talent, I just think it takes more than just talent for an unexperienced 20-year old to get a job like that.

Ok people, let's just let this Katie Lucas thing rest. Boy, now I fear we've set up a huge pile of gunpowder kegs, and if this episode turns out to suck, it will all be ready for people to blow KL to oblivion... (and then someone will say I started it )

 

Well, I'm sure Katie Lucas knows what she's doing, though being GL's daughter probably played a part in it too. I think George isn't so far gone that he'll pick someone who doesn't know what they're doing for an episode like this.

Besides, the episode's impressed me so far. Some of us were willing to give Bombad Jedi a chance knowing Kevin Rubio from Troops was on it. Maybe we can try a little of that thinking here on Katie considering how good the episode looks. And that's my two cents. XD

Looking forward to seeing it on youtube when it comes out, but until then, I'm staying away from this board until I see it!

On a totally unrelated note, my country will begin airing the Clone Wars on Friday the 13th. How's that for weird. XD
Nute Gunray: Yeees, yeees, such delicious irony!

 

...did that ship just go to hyperspace while in a planet's atmosphere?

 

Quinlan Vos reference! I hope...

 

Oh, indeed it is a valid discussion, just NOT in the CW forum.
We have boards devoted to discussion of topics such as this.

Let's let the kids enjoy it.

 

One of the best, no question.

Loved it....and loved the preview for next week.

 

Think Aayla was kind of lucky that the Lurmen chief didn't let Bly stay with her:

[image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/DBrennan3333/StarWars-AaylasDeath.jpg]

Enjoyed the episode. Looks like next week's episode is still more hackneyed war-is-bad-but-Droids-are-badder crap. Wish they'd just come out and say, "There's no inner turmoil. We just love our phony war."

 

Excellent episode. Best since Cloak of Darkness.

 

Very good episode, I guess Katie can get the job done!

 

First off, Jennifer Hale's portrayal of Aayla - at first, I thought her accent was more British than French. But she managed to get it. Otherwise, I don't know. There were times when I thought she came off more as Bastila Shan than as Aayla Secura. I would have thought that Aayla would be a bit or expressive of compassion than Bastila, since Aayla was very happy to meet Xiann Amersu in that newspaper comic. Also, Aayla didn't have such strong objections to any feelings she might have for Kit as Bastila did when it came to her feelings for Revan. I guess my mind is more or less set on Jennifer Hale = Bastila Shan.

She did a good job portraying Aayla as a teacher to Ahsoka. But I can't honestly say I cheered with her performance as Aayla. I'm neither cheering for her, nor am I booing her.

As for those lemur-people, don't they look like furry mini-droidekas rolling around like that.

 

well this episode was really good looks like katie did a good job after all. I love how aayla metions her former master and the fight in the atomosphere was bad ass. And i love the lurmen

next week looks good too George taki as a nemodian who would have thougt ?

 

I really enjoyed this one. If there was any negative... the music seemed overpowering at times, i.e. it was either way to present or the mix was off. At times it was almost so loud I couldn't hear the characters. Very distracting.