Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 116: The Hidden Enemy Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

This was the first time I saw BATTLE DROIDS that scared me!!!
Wow! No dumb dialog! Just virtually silent killing machines! They did an awesome job making the average battle droid seem menacing!

How about anyone else? Did you like the way the battle droids were portrayed in this episode?
Very well done episode. No silly plot holes, no dumb banter between Anakin and Obi-Wan. This episode felt more Original Trilogy due to its serious tone.

Great stuff!

 

Did Obi-Wan call Cody "Captain"?

 

Loved the Loathsom cameo, even if we didn't get to hear the Connery like voice.

I wish we would've got to have seen some of the Kerkoiden soldiers that were in the novel.

 

But they're supposed to be loyal to the Republic. Maybe he's differentiating between "Republic" and "Jedi"?

 

Indeed.

 

I must say, I had far fewer issues with this episode than previous episodes. The absence of Ahsoka may be a key factor in this. Ah, sweet silence. It's like having an annoying little sister go off to camp for a week. The dialogue between the Clones was more Star Wars, and the backgrounds reminded me of the Original Trilogy (especially the Death Star's interior halls). Sympathy for the clones. Battle droids have collectable fingers? I love the animation on this show. Eye candy is best with good writing. Ventress/Obi-wan is starting to grow on me.

The blocky droid commander was in this one again. They sure get their heads lopped off easily. Shouldn't they have a failsafe where their memory banks are remotely drained when they are decapitated?

 

Very good episode! Cody and Rex are awesome. I love the Obi-Wan/Ventress dynamic.

 

I must agree that the whole Ventriss/Kenobi angle is starting to grow on me. I'm kinda getting into their little flirty back and forth. I know a few have lamented about the situation, but I like it. One my favorite lines in the movie was when Obi-Wan called Ventriss, "darling". I hope it doesn't get ridiculous, but I think it might be neat to see a menacing Ventriss who almost seduces Obi-Wan as she tries to kill him. I guess it's kinda naughty for Cartoon Network...

 

The droids really were effective in this episode.

I laughed at the '...roger, roger...' they all gave when told to let obi and anakin go by.

 

It's very interesting that Slick says he's doing this for all his brothers, but as Rex or Cody pointed out, he put them all in danger.

Nice writing - Slick knows he's being a traitor, but he has to rationalize his actions, so it becomes about being a slave and being a pioneer of freedom. But really, he just wants out.

With respect to the droid fingers, as I mentioned, it's a reference to the Vietnam war. Troops would get a little squirrely and start keeping mementos from the enemy combatants. That kind of thinking eventually led to the bombing/raping of innocent villagers.

If a trooper starts making the war personal, he's less likely to fit in with the unit and to follow orders - maybe he won't retreat when he's supposed to, maybe he'll put the others at risk by a foolhardy action.

 

A quick off topic question: Why has StarWars.com only put the episode 17 guide up, but not the 18th guide? Aren't they showing both episodes next Friday, 17&18?

 

I can see this happening...sort of. I'm curious if we'll get a look as to why Kenobi and Ventress are so flirty. Maybe they had some sort of history together or something (wasn't she a Jedi for a time?) This is definitely one aspect of the series I'm looking forward to seeing develop more.

 

Wait, this episode was a prequel to the movie right? I mean that Separatist general is still commanding droids, Ahsoka hasn't shown up yet, and the clones tell the Jedi at the end that only their heavy artillery cannons were left after Slick's sabotage....not to mention that the episode ends sorta with a cliffhanger when there's actually no followup one (the next one being that "virus whatever" one).

 

Hmm, while it's certainly interesting to see Troopers developing doubt in the chain-of-command, I've got a problem with the blame-it-on-the-Jedi train of thought. I've just finished reading Order 66, which although it's as fantastic as the rest of the series, seems to also fall at the same hurdle: this bizarre idea that the Jedi are "running" the war. The Jedi aren't running the show, the Senate (ie Palpidious) is. The Jedi have as much choice in all this as the clones do.

The beef of the rebellious clones seems to be: I want no part of this war. I am expendable. The people I grew up with are getting killed, serving in a war they didn't start and don't want. If I desert, I will he hunted and killed by black-ops squads sent by the Chancellor. If I'm successful in my desertion, I have nowhere to go, and no possessions to take with me. Being with this group of people, trained from birth amd doing as I'm told for 'the greater good' is the only life I've ever known. I want more. I know I shouldn't, but I do.

...and how is this different from the Jedi, exactly? The clones seem to be lashing out at the closest group to hand (which I can buy in-universe, unfortunately Karen Traviss seems fixated with the idea, but I'll save that rant for another board). I only hope that the counter-argument is put forward, or at least suggested.

My initial thought was that he's got a cybernetic hand after losing one in battle (like Corr in Republic Commando), and he's developed a revenge-fixation. Then I remembered that Corr is given a desk-job after he loses his hands, because GAR issue replacements are clunky things like Anakin's first replacement at the end of AotC, and aren't articulate enough for field-combat. Still, it would have been a nice touch

He broke the glass so the troops could fire their rappel lines to the other building, not for him to leap over I'm guessing the transparisteel needed to be weakened before he could push it outward, at least without busting a gut over doing it. Although I could be wrong

+++

All in all, great episode I particularly liked how Cody took the tactical droid's head off to gain access to it's storage module, which Aayla does later in the Headgames webcomic.
Nice to see Obi-Wan's and Ventress' continued flirting (well, it's continued in the Movie, but you get my drift). If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to the Republic comics where she held Obi-Wan and Alpha captive for a while. Very nice tie in to existing continuity

 

Yes, according to the episode guide, this is a prequel to the movie, although it seems it doesn't lead directly into it...like the movie starts a few days later or something.

 

While I thought I'd have a lot of issues with the idea of a clone trooper, who is bred for loyalty, being a traitor, I believe this may have turned out to be my favorite episode.

Very well done. No Ahsoka is a major plus and the dialogue was surprisingly Star Wars[/]y. A lot of it has seemed so forced and contrived this season, but this is one of the few episodes that really nailed the way people speak within the universe. That's an odd remark, I know, haha.

There's something about Ventress and Kenobi that I'd definitely like to see more of. I mean, I still dislike Asajj as a character mostly because I dislike the idea that dark Jedi are a dime a dozen in Star Wars, but their dynamic (as people have pointed out) is really growing on me. I missed the preview clip for next week's episode (apparently episodes?), though. Is that uploaded onto the official site yet?

 

I can't help but think of how Irwin Kershner always said that a kiss in Star Wars is like a sex scene in an adult movie. I see a restrained Obi-Wan getting kissed by Ventress and liking it. "You like me because I'm a scoundrel." In this case, Ventress would be the scoundrel.

 

Why has StarWars.com only put the episode 17 guide up, but not the 18th guide? Aren't they showing both episodes next Friday, 17&18?

Yes, both are airing next Friday. Still trying to figure out the best way to post the 18th guide preview before the 17th episode airs, because the 18th preview kind of spoils the 17th episode. It might not be avoidable...

ph

 

Actually, I've really missed Ahsoka. When I saw her in next week's preview, it really clicked how much she means to me. She's the most actively heroic female character is Star Wars lore, and the only main female character who doesn't serve in a romantic role.

 

I always wondered why they didn't use the AT-TEs during the Battle of Christophsis in the movie!

 

I had the same problem with her, too, but I take it from Filoni's comments that he's pretty set against having tons of Jedi fall to the Dark Side in the show, so Ventress should remain unique-- outside of the known Sith, she'd be the only "dark" force user at G-Canon level, right?

Always in favor of (finally) getting Obi-Wan a love interest. Wouldn't have picked a demi-Sith, but I'm starting to come around. Ventress might well envy Obi-Wan's control and unflappability, the thing she does not have at all, in addition to his skill... Obi-Wan might be tempted to try to turn Ventress, but there's also the fact that she just plain shows interest in him, which must be a little befuddling to a Jedi. I mean, the general public knows they're essentially celebate, so they probably just don't get flirted with a lot... and never by a fellow force-user. Interesting.

Otherwhere, good stuff with the clones. Animation seemed fine to me, except maybe the fist-fight/strangling bit, which looked a little clunky. And hey, Plo Koon appearance (albeit very fleeting).

 

As this episode was obviously the prelude to the events on Christophsis depicted at the beginning of the theatrical release, I find it a little strange that they decided to then go ahead and show this as a standalone episode. I enjoyed it nonetheleness, but it would seem to suggest that the theatrical release should really be placed between episodes 16 and 17, as far as the internal chronology of the Clone Wars is concerned.

Who agrees that it would be better to go for the following running order once we're in a position to sit down for the full series marathon?

Episodes 1-16 - The Clone Wars (Movie) - Episodes 17-22

 

Slick does have a point, it's inherently immoral to try to clone humans in the first place and then train them from when they're kids to do nothing but fight as soldiers. But the Jedi aren't to blame for this, it was Dooku that was behind the creation of these clones, he's the one that put them into this situation. And once the war was upon them, the Republic had little choice but to use them in the battle with the separatists, as they had no large standing army available for the fight.

 

This order is actually incorrect. The Clone Wars movie is set before episodes 2 and onwards, with The Hidden Enemy set right before the movie.