Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 201: Holocron Heist Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

On the whole I liked the episode, though I think I liked CoD better.

I agree that there are questions regarding Bane, TODO, and the changeling's ability to do what they did.

But it's a 22 minute episode. It's tough to make a heist story like this one, and fully explain all the "why's" in that time span.

Compound that with the fact we're talking about Jedi...and their home base. You expect more security, and for them to not make mistakes. But, for me part of this is explained by the fact that this is GL's version of Jedi. They aren't the absolute super heroes of the EU, from what I can see. They make mistakes.

I actually thought a couple of the line readings were off...mainly with Obi-Wan. I'm not knocking James Arnold Taylor as he's a great voice actor in general and does a great job with Obi-Wan. But there were a couple of lines where he did't emphasize the word that seemed most natural. For example, when he and Anakin go through the shield. He says "At least we won't have as much difficulty" or something like that. He didn't emphasize "we," but that seems to be the natural thing to do.

Of course, Kenobi is my favorite character so I may have been listening to him a bit more closely.

But overall a good episode. Music was good. I love that Kiner has turned the Batle of Christophsis music into the Clones' Theme. Animation was great. More detail in everything, including lip sync and lighting.

 

I do like mentions of the Kaiburr Crystal.

There are times when I think the Jedi are not using what they have. bane goes to get away a couple of times with Anakin right there and no telekinesis? Yeah ok, they downplay it for the story or drama or whatever but how about keep the powers in mind when making these encounters.

I like the hints of Ahsoka turning to the darkside.

How does this Bane somehow outwit all the best Jedi in the galaxy within their own temple? For the story once again. I do not like when characters get dumbed down and weakened for someone's story.

Aside from my gripes I liked it.

 

Well this was disapointing. This episode was incredibly slow paced and was well...just badly thought out. I was expecting to see a Kit/Aayla Scene, Cato using a blaster(lightsaber? ), and Bane being badazz.

They really shouldn't have killed off TODO 360. I really liked the little "Sidekick".

Don't tell me people are going to start saying Plo Koon was awesome, cuz he didn't do anything and successfully blew up an AT-TE.

Bad Voiceacting.

I thought Ahsoka was supposed to mature?

Garth, what are you talking about? There was nothing off about Kit.

I wanted to see Ord in action.

 

I really liked this episode. Thoughts ahead:

+I liked how Bane was handled. He wasn't some kind of Marty Stu who waltzed over the Jedi: He used a lot of teamwork and cleverness and even then there were a few close calls. But at the same time he didn't suffer Grievous style badass decay and is still an effective opponent.
+Todo was five kinds of funny and seven kinds of awesome.
+Using Todo as a bomb was very ruthless and clever, honestly caught me off gaurd, but it fits Bane well.
+Enjoyable action scenes
+ Good long term goal, going after the potential younglings. Though I thought the jedi took them very early anyway...

-Was there a point to Ashoka being assigned to the library? After all, everyone else was there anyway, she could have just been sent to check on the library and the plot would have turned out the same.
-On that note, Cato taking Nu's shape didn't add much to the story as well.
-TODO! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

?Felucia battle was also filler, but definitely some good eye candy
?Ashoka seemed awfully unfamiliar with the temple...maybe she was trained at a different one?

About what others have said: I think you people are overestimating what a jedi can sense. Jedi senses are vague feelings, they don't instantly fill in the jedi on the plot. Besides, if you have enough mental discipline, then jedi can't sense your intentions at all.

 

Ya'know, I liked TODO as much as the next guy, but I'm kinda glad they offed him. Kinda like with Grievous' medical droid: added just the right amount of comic relief and was on screen for just the right time. Any more than that would have been overkill.

 

I agree...he was cool, but for Bane to have a constant sidekick like that seems off to me, but he served his purpose for this. And I thought it was funny when he realized Bane had set him up for destruction.

 

I think there are now more versions of the Kaiburr Crystal than there are versions of how the Death Star plans were stolen.

 

I liked Todo, I think they're killing off characters too quickly. He didn't have to be with Bane in every episode he was in, but I think he was a droid with a personality that wasn't annoying like all the others with personalities are.

In short:

don't kill of Seth Green

 

Well, there's always a chance that the TODO droid model will return in some other manner.

Of all of the heist complaints made so far, no one has pointed out the most obvious shapeshifter cliche. In AOTC, Zam Wessell was shown to wear a purple jumpsuit that did not change forms when she shapeshifted. The clothing was clearly real. This episode's changeling was able to morph his/her matter into the shapes of clothing, like Mystique from the X-men. Wha?!

 

ah, the all-powerful, all-knowing, Energon...er....Kaiburr Crystal.


Wedge - totally agree with you on the Obi-Wan reading. Most of the time he's spot on, but his emphasis is off I'd say probably once an episode. I've noticed it a few times with the other voice actors as well (did a Season 1 review to get ready for Season 2).


- Don't get me wrongo, guys, it was an enjoyable episode almost in spite of itself. Meaning, you kinda knew Bane was going to get away, but I agree there was some suspense nonetheless.

- Really enjoyed TODO until the "hey...guys...." part. Just can't imagine a droid ever saying that (nor anyone else) in the GFFA. Really took me out of the moment.

- the music was solid.

- the script was generally spot on, thanks Gilroy and Dini. Favorites "Longer now." "Following your teachings." "Is she winning?"

- also liked when Bane was almost panicking when they were flying up the ventilation shaft.

- did no one else have a problem with Kit walking? It looked really clunky to me.

- as I said, any heist flick, you really have to take a lot for granted and suspend your disbelief, but there was almost too much here to do so.

- at this point, the Force is basically "Spidey Sense" for me. It's completely inconsistent and you just have to live with it.

 

Yeah, we were discussing that I think in the general thread.

Apparently Cato has some uber-sophisticated holographic device that lets her replicate clothes as well (?).

Also the fact that she suddenly had the Jedi's correct voice for no reason whatsoever.

 

Every time she changed shape and her clothes changed too, you could see a visible hologram jitter effect on her clothes.

 

I see what y'all meant about the holo effect. Maybe that was the writer's retcon for the discrepancy. So basically her body has genetic shapeshifting abilities, and her holgram thingee backs her up with holo clothes? I'll buy it.

Of course that means she's nekkid.

 

or she's wearing spandex.

 

Perhaps I let myself get too hyped up over Paul Dini. This episode didn't amaze me...my complaints have already been mentioned by others (a break-in that stretches believability; a non-force using shape shifter successfully dueling with a lightsaber).

Seth Green was cool, though. It wasn't bad, but I felt it was weak for a season opener. It's a good thing they made this a one-hour premiere or I would have felt cheated. Part 2 was great.

 

Spandex is a mortal sin, even in a GFFA.

Actually just rewatched the changeling scenes, and the hologram detail is very awesome. Kudos to whoever thought of that idea.

 

I know we pretty much had to have Anakin and Obi-Wan in the season opener, but it would have been cool to have Yoda and Ahsoka together.

 

I enjoyed this episode although I agree that the second one was better.

The Good...

-Good start to the episode with the Battle of Felucia.

-Fantastic animation that gets more and more like the movies with every episode.

-We get to see both the Jedi Council and the Jedi Archives, not to mention Jocasta Nu.

-Although I have a hard time buying Cato could do that without the Force, the duel between her and Ahsoka was pretty cool.

-Bane is an awesome character. Period.

I did have some problems though...

-Ahsoka grew up in the Jedi Temple and yet she's only meeting Jocasta Nu for the FIRST TIME?! That didn't make any sense.

-A Changling might be able to impersonate a Jedi but how could Ahsoka and Jocasta now guess that she wasn't a Jedi? Couldn't they sense she wasn't?

How does this Bane somehow outwit all the best Jedi in the galaxy within their own temple? For the story once again. I do not like when characters get dumbed down and weakened for someone's story.


Can't argue with that. Bane's plan depends on dumbed down Jedi and a ridiculously empty Jedi Temple.

Still, it was a good episode to start the season with.

 

Just pointing out for everyone that the crystal that the Rodian Master has is not the Kaiburr Crystal (like in SOTME) but the Kyber crystal. It's an old spelling that they threw out for a crystal that would help find and enhance force powers and force-sensitivity. At least I think so, it's on the episode guide trivia on starwars.com.

I enjoyed the episode with the only detraction being the monkey in the room about the fact that Bane and the Clawdite had zero problems infiltrating the temple and then the Jedi not even thinking about anyone going after the Holocrons. Maybe it's some of that Jedi arrogance coming into play. Since you have to be able to use the force to access a holocron, what's the point of guarding them.

Also you'd think that either Anakin or Obi-Wan would stay in the vault once they found that it was broken into. Especially considering they'd have to have known that there were a number of masters in the comm room and that both of them weren't needed. But I guess that all of that was need so that the story could move towards where they want it too.

 

-Ahsoka grew up in the Jedi Temple and yet she's only meeting Jocasta Nu for the FIRST TIME?! That didn't make any sense.

As I mentioned earlier, it is possible she was raised at another temple. The Coursicant temple isn't the only one.

As for people saying the jedi were dummed down...
Personally I thought things were contrived against Bane. Between Cato's turning off the sensors and the plans and codes Sidious gave him, Bane shouldn't have had much problem getting in, but somehow the Jedi's sensors picked him up anyway.
But mostly I don't get why people said he had it too easy when he was caught right away, almost was killed by traps and the jedi were just two steps behind him the entire time. What part of that was easy? What should the jedi have done different?

 

Well, sort of the same thing happened in Hostage Crisis when Anakin gave Padme his lightsaber...it was a mistake, but the assumption was that nothing bad would happen(or that they would steal holocrons).

 

good episode, but only if you live in the states. Where they actually get hour long premiers unlike our frozen north.

Seth Green was AWESOME, nuff said.

Felucia, apart from being totally unnessesary, has been the largest battle yet in the series. The scene where the gunship escapes overlooking thousands of droids showed a great sense of the larger scale the series is taking.

Two problems though.

If there is a huge galactic war going on, why is the entire Jedi council hangin around the home front? Seems like they were gonna set up a tea party in the control room.

When Bane and Todo went through the fan blades, and Cato turned them off? why did she not turn them back on when Obi Wan and Anakin came through?

An Okay episode, but DAMMIT I want to see cargo of doom!

 

Awesome season premiere! I was on the edge of my seat the whole time! Can't wait for next week.

 

When's the rerun

 

http://www.starwars.com/video/view/000869.html

Episode Commentary now online: Dave talks about a the lightsaber fight between Cato and Ahsoka.

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